Perhaps not, even though Gary was never serious with anyone else in those 16 years they were apart while Val only had one other man for a while (Rusty). Gary and Val clearly weren't really over each other, probably felt like they had unfinished business from back then, yet they were scared of rejection or that J.R. would never let them function together.
You know it's funny how you mention JR since it was established in the last episode of Dallas that if JR had never been born he wouldn't have driven Gary off Southfork. Gary would never have begun drinking and he never would have met Valene until in 1991.
Meaning they never would have had Lucy or the twins and yet even in that alternative universe they did end up meeting and were immediately drawn to each other.
So it was hinted at that they were meant to be.
Still can you imagine Gary being a lawyer?
That's what he was in the alternative universe. I don't know but I find it more likely that he would have run Southfork...
Oh well it was a different Gary and a different Valene we saw in that episode of Dallas.
Anyway as for what did happen, I agree that the fact that neither Gary nor Val ever got remarried while they were apart or had any serious relationships, with the exception of maybe Rusty on Val's part, it did indicate that they never got over each other. Yet 16 years is a long time to be apart so no wonder they were "treating each oher like china dolls" in the first season of Knots Landing. I think it was one of the other characters that used that expression to describe them. Either Karen or Laura?
They were clearly scared of failing at marriage again, which is also why they didn't tell Lucy about their remarriage since they didn't want to hurt her if they failed again. Yet by not telling her they did end up hurting her.
Lucy not being in Knots Landing ever again is slightly disappointing, as is Barbara Bel Geddes not showing up in California for 1 or 2 episodes. I reckon Lucy would have fitted in very well in the later seasons, although not in the early seasons. I think Charlene's (and Barbara's) lack of appearances on Knots Landing had something to do with Dallas and Knots Landing having different schedules and timings, and it wasn't easy to always have characters crossing over, even though they did them for a while. After Jock's Will, crossovers were confined to storylines from Seasons 5-7, with the character crossovers from Dallas to Knots Landing stopping. And after Bobby was brought back from the dead on Dallas, those crossovers all stopped.
As for Annie, Karen Allen went on to Raiders of the Lost Ark. Bigger fame.
Thanks for explaining about Annie. I never knew that.
Also I agree that BBG should have guest starred as Miss Ellie. I mean Gary was her favorite son and she bought them the house in Knots Landing and yet she never once came for a visit? Does anyone know why that was?
I mean storywise it really doesn't make any sense at all.
Actually it's a shame that Bobby's death severed the ties between the two shows since I would have loved to see Miss Ellie meet her grandkids just once.
Likewise with Lucy and Lilimae they never met either.
I agree that Lucy would have fitted well into the show later on. In fact I wish they had moved her and Mitch to Knots Landing to be the young newlywed couple in 1985 instead of writing them off to Atlanta, off screen. It would have open up endless plot possibilities and Lucy could have interacted with her parents, siblings, step-siblings, step-parents and other grandma. It would have been awesome.
Yet it never happened and I think the main reason was probably due to money. My guess was that having been on Dallas for 7 seasons already Charlene might have been too expensive for Knots Landing's budget. Then it was cheaper to invent and bring on a new character like Paige.
Gary did tell Judy in his own way, even Abby told Judy in her way before that. Gary said that he needed Val for her strength and would be lost without her. Even then, Judy didn't get it. Judy thought that Gary was stuck in an unhappy marriage to Val and was too pathetic in being unable to leave his wife, even though the reality was that Gary loved his marriage, he and Val had been trying for a baby, and his unhappiness was all to do with his own insecurity about his own weaknesses as a person and his fear of responsibility, and he was flattered by Judy looking up to him. Of course, Judy's attitude meant that she no longer looked up to Gary but treated him with a certain contempt so Gary no longer had any attraction to Judy at all, and while it did help Gary and Val to reconnect and get an even deeper bond for a while, it didn't change the fact that Gary's issues which led to the affair with Judy never went away, with Abby waiting her chance.
Oh definitely Judy completely misunderstood Gary. He was happy with his marriage and had no intention of leaving Valene for her or anyone else. Yet she failed to see that since she thought Gary and Valene's marriage mirrored what she and Earl had and it didn't.
Also in a sense it felt like there was a childlike quality about Gary and Valene's characters in the early seasons of the show. Although they were both adults and in their 30s when they remarried they had a lot of issues that hadn't been sorted out. Both had the loss of Lucy to cope with and living with the guilt of not being able to raise their daughter. Both also had parental issues. For Gary the problematic relationship was with his father while Val's was with her mother and feeling abandoned while her mom went to persue her singing career. Jock's death helped Gary resolve the negative feelings he had about his father while having Lilimae move in with Val helped them forge a stronger bond and resolved that relationship for Valene.
I love the first episode we see Lilimae on the show. It was right before Lucy came out for a visit and the episode laid the groundwork for that episode. It added lots of character depth. There was especially a scene after a party where all the bottled up emotions that Val had held inside of her came out. When she spelled out to Lilimae how she blamed her for not letting her and Lucy into her home so that JR's men could take her baby away from her. It made Lilimae realize just how deeply she had hurt her daughter and that she had to leave since she didn't think they would be able to bridge that gap.
It's such a powerful scene full of raw emotions. Julie & Joan were especially great in it.
Yet at the same time Lilimae being there brought out the little girl in Valene and she didn't want her mama to leave her again. So she forgave her mother.
If Val had taken Gary back at that time, Gary would not have left Val. And that would been bad in the long run for both Gary and Val as people. Gary would not have sorted himself out had he just stayed with Val. Gary would have continued to find Abby irresistible anyway. There's no way he would have just fended her off, because the sexual stuff was only a part of it, even bigger was Abby challenging him to push himself harder in life and helping him to address his problems. What Val offered was a great typical marriage and security, but she couldn't sort out Gary's deeper personal issues, and was in fact hiding Gary away from addressing most of his problems. Gary was often bored at that time, and hated being insecure. He couldn't just carry on like that, but Val was scared that he'd fall apart by addressing his demons and that she'd lose him again.
I agree the bond between Abby and Gary was not purely sexual. Their relationship ran deeper and she did help Gary evolve as a person. Take his alcoholism for instance. When Gary fell off the wagon when he was with Val she didn't know what to do and let Gary walk all over her. He even hit her when drunk. Yes it was by accident but still. Abby didn't stand for that kind of behavior. She didn't let anyone walk all over her and started plotting behind Gary's back to seize control of their joint business if he wasn't able to handle it.
Which brings me to another question. Do you think Abby really loved Gary or was she just using him?
I want to believe that she did love him even if she treated him badly at times. I mean before they got married she had me convinced that she did love him. Yet as soon as they were married she started scheming behind his back, she created Apolune and used his money to finalize her own business ventures without telling him, she cheated on him with Greg Sumner etc.
Pretty soon Gary wisened up and although he loved Abby he learnt not to trust her.
Ironically he trusted Valene so much that he turned to her for advice if he should marry Jill even though they had been divorced for a long time. He told her that he trusted her more than anyone else in his life.
Fast forward to 1993, at the end of TV series when Abby came back to the Cul-de-sac and saw Gary and Val together. Now, this Gary would only find Abby attractive on the sexual side, and even then probably wouldn't have an affair anymore even if Abby had come on to him strong. There was no longer any of the other dynamics between Gary and Abby that had existed a decade earlier. The older Gary was secure, confident, comfortable in his skin, comfortable as a husband to Val and father to Bobby and Betsy, and comfortable with his weaknesses. Completely different dynamics to before.
I agree Gary in 1993 would not have slept with Abby. He was happy in his marriage and with his children. He had grown up at that point and weren't going to risk losing it all for some great sex.
Yes, it was partly out of his control. He needed Abby to help him address his problems and to challenge him in life, but he was terrified at losing the security that Val gave him and he wanted to save their marriage. Of course, even when they were apart, Gary never really did lose Val's security. I don't think even Abby realized the depth of Gary and Val's bond until years later, like when she was telling it to Jill.
Oh yeah I love that scene when Abby told Jill. "Let the soon to be second Mrs. Ewing give the soon to be third Mrs. Ewing a word of advice. The first Mrs. Ewing never goes away. Ever."
I loved how that short confrontation planted a seed in Jill's mind that made her feel insecure about her own relationship with Gary.
But yes the bond between Gary and Val remained even when they were apart and in times of crises Val always turned to Gary and he was always there for her.
Unlike Abby who used sex as a business tool a lot of the time, for Val it was a deeply personal bond. Val was old fashioned that way. Val didn't have that many partners, really, including during her 1962-1978 and 1982-1990 separations from Gary. She had a bond with that Rusty from years before Gary and Val reconciled, and with Ben, and for a while was in lust with Danny, but that's about it, apart from Parker and Verna Ellers. Gary was always the one for her, the one who swept her off her feet back in 1961 when she was 15.
Yes Val was a romantic and Gary definitely was the love of her life. She did share a love with Ben but Gary's shadow was always looming over their marriage.
Val is a nice person, full of energy and very stubborn. The immediate impression of her being a pretty weak person is deceiving.
I agree. The episode "The loudest word" comes to mind. You know the one where they thought she might have cancer and she had to have a colonostomy?
Gary totally fell apart and didn't know where he would be without her. He couldn't handle it at all while she was the strong one. She handled her own health crisis in an almost stoic way and was at times more concerned about Gary than about herself. So no she was not weak at all.
Yes, they still have that chemistry. It was in that 2005 reunion, too. Joan doesn't have to say much to take them back emotionally to those times.
Definitely. I love that reunion.