Continuity

[Herofan]

Whenever the movies and TNT show are discussed, people mention that things were changed or ignored from the original Dallas; continuity was off. It has been forever since I saw the last three or four seasons of the original, the movies, and I think I was in a loss-of-interest-induced coma during most of the TNT shows. For those who remember better than I, would it be possible to list the things that were changed for the movies and new series just to have them all here in one list? Thanks.

 

[Miss Texas 1967]

Off the top of my head. There are absolutely more, these are just what spring to mind.

TNT show:

• Miss Ellie was institutionalised after Jock died (never happened on the original show)
• Entire Ramos family backstory never happened on the original show and the repeated references were just cheap attempts to retroactively add characters instead of pulling from the original material
• Entire Cliff and Frank backstory was contrived and never happened on the original show. To pretend Cliff "adopted" Frank (even unofficially) 30 years prior was a stretch and not even a believable one. 30 years prior to 2012 was 1982 which was around the time he was embezzling from Wentworth Tool and Die, his suicide attempt and then teaming up with Rebecca to get revenge on JR etc. This TNT plot wouldn't even remotely fit into the original plot or into making sense with Cliff's personality.
• Cattle Baron's Ball, need I say more?
• Not one Ewing recognising Rebecca when Christopher brought her home to Southfork. The character was not a main part in the original show but she was most definitely not a dark secret and with Cliff and Christopher becoming closer in the later seasons it's unlikely he wouldn't have ever met Rebecca or known about her. In the movies she was a character and if I am remembering correctly she may have even had scenes with teenage Christopher.
• I don't think we can mention changes without mentioning the layout of Southfork. As much as the original interior didn't fit the exterior, the TNT show didn't even try to bring familiarity to the layout you'd expect. Even watching a few clips on Youtube you can get a feel of the original foyer, living room, dining room etc. flow.
• Brought Cally back but didn't bother mentioning her son with JR
• Brought Ray and Lucy back and proceeded to have them act like a couple while giving us absolutely no details about their lives
• Gave JR an illegitimate daughter we'd never heard of but ignored that he had a son with Cally or that Bobby had a son with Jenna (who Ray raised)
• Couldn't get the name of the plot of land that had oil on it correct, so they tried to use a part of history and still managed to mess it up.

TV movies:

• Jock invested in some sort of computer shares. Err ok. That was a big plot contrivance but at least they remembered Jock existed lol
• Can't remember the percentage specifics but basically Sue Ellen and Bobby co-owned Ewing Oil in the second movie. What I do remember is the movies ended with Bobby essentially retiring from the oil business and JR looking as if he was moments away from weaselling his way back into Sue Ellen's good books to get back with her personally and to get his hands on Ewing Oil again.

If the TNT show was going to ignore the TV movies then I guess fair enough, they weren't the most coherent things ever written (though I do kind of enjoy them), but the absolute very least they could have done was know their source material, aka the original show. They had their pick of original actors alive and willing to come back and they squandered most of them by either giving them no worthy story/backstory (e.g. Lucy and Ray) or not even hiring the actors when they were interested in reprising their role (e.g. Morgan Brittany).

 

[stevew]

Off the top of my head. There are absolutely more, these are just what spring to mind.

TNT show:

• Miss Ellie was institutionalised after Jock died (never happened on the original show)
• Entire Ramos family backstory never happened on the original show and the repeated references were just cheap attempts to retroactively add characters instead of pulling from the original material
• Entire Cliff and Frank backstory was contrived and never happened on the original show. To pretend Cliff "adopted" Frank (even unofficially) 30 years prior was a stretch and not even a believable one. 30 years prior to 2012 was 1982 which was around the time he was embezzling from Wentworth Tool and Die, his suicide attempt and then teaming up with Rebecca to get revenge on JR etc. This TNT plot wouldn't even remotely fit into the original plot or into making sense with Cliff's personality.
• Cattle Baron's Ball, need I say more?
• Not one Ewing recognising Rebecca when Christopher brought her home to Southfork. The character was not a main part in the original show but she was most definitely not a dark secret and with Cliff and Christopher becoming closer in the later seasons it's unlikely he wouldn't have ever met Rebecca or known about her. In the movies she was a character and if I am remembering correctly she may have even had scenes with teenage Christopher.
• I don't think we can mention changes without mentioning the layout of Southfork. As much as the original interior didn't fit the exterior, the TNT show didn't even try to bring familiarity to the layout you'd expect. Even watching a few clips on Youtube you can get a feel of the original foyer, living room, dining room etc. flow.
• Brought Cally back but didn't bother mentioning her son with JR
• Brought Ray and Lucy back and proceeded to have them act like a couple while giving us absolutely no details about their lives
• Gave JR an illegitimate daughter we'd never heard of but ignored that he had a son with Cally or that Bobby had a son with Jenna (who Ray raised)
• Couldn't get the name of the plot of land that had oil on it correct, so they tried to use a part of history and still managed to mess it up.

TV movies:

• Jock invested in some sort of computer shares. Err ok. That was a big plot contrivance but at least they remembered Jock existed lol
• Can't remember the percentage specifics but basically Sue Ellen and Bobby co-owned Ewing Oil in the second movie. What I do remember is the movies ended with Bobby essentially retiring from the oil business and JR looking as if he was moments away from weaselling his way back into Sue Ellen's good books to get back with her personally and to get his hands on Ewing Oil again.

If the TNT show was going to ignore the TV movies then I guess fair enough, they weren't the most coherent things ever written (though I do kind of enjoy them), but the absolute very least they could have done was know their source material, aka the original show. They had their pick of original actors alive and willing to come back and they squandered most of them by either giving them no worthy story/backstory (e.g. Lucy and Ray) or not even hiring the actors when they were interested in reprising their role (e.g. Morgan Brittany).

Send this to anyone involved in bringing Dallas back with a note: it wasn’t interest, they showed up in very respectable numbers, it’s how you brought it to life, very disrespectful.

 

[Herofan]

Off the top of my head. There are absolutely more, these are just what spring to mind.

TNT show:

• Miss Ellie was institutionalised after Jock died (never happened on the original show)
• Entire Ramos family backstory never happened on the original show and the repeated references were just cheap attempts to retroactively add characters instead of pulling from the original material
• Entire Cliff and Frank backstory was contrived and never happened on the original show. To pretend Cliff "adopted" Frank (even unofficially) 30 years prior was a stretch and not even a believable one. 30 years prior to 2012 was 1982 which was around the time he was embezzling from Wentworth Tool and Die, his suicide attempt and then teaming up with Rebecca to get revenge on JR etc. This TNT plot wouldn't even remotely fit into the original plot or into making sense with Cliff's personality.
• Cattle Baron's Ball, need I say more?
• Not one Ewing recognising Rebecca when Christopher brought her home to Southfork. The character was not a main part in the original show but she was most definitely not a dark secret and with Cliff and Christopher becoming closer in the later seasons it's unlikely he wouldn't have ever met Rebecca or known about her. In the movies she was a character and if I am remembering correctly she may have even had scenes with teenage Christopher.
• I don't think we can mention changes without mentioning the layout of Southfork. As much as the original interior didn't fit the exterior, the TNT show didn't even try to bring familiarity to the layout you'd expect. Even watching a few clips on Youtube you can get a feel of the original foyer, living room, dining room etc. flow.
• Brought Cally back but didn't bother mentioning her son with JR
• Brought Ray and Lucy back and proceeded to have them act like a couple while giving us absolutely no details about their lives
• Gave JR an illegitimate daughter we'd never heard of but ignored that he had a son with Cally or that Bobby had a son with Jenna (who Ray raised)
• Couldn't get the name of the plot of land that had oil on it correct, so they tried to use a part of history and still managed to mess it up.

TV movies:

• Jock invested in some sort of computer shares. Err ok. That was a big plot contrivance but at least they remembered Jock existed lol
• Can't remember the percentage specifics but basically Sue Ellen and Bobby co-owned Ewing Oil in the second movie. What I do remember is the movies ended with Bobby essentially retiring from the oil business and JR looking as if he was moments away from weaselling his way back into Sue Ellen's good books to get back with her personally and to get his hands on Ewing Oil again.

If the TNT show was going to ignore the TV movies then I guess fair enough, they weren't the most coherent things ever written (though I do kind of enjoy them), but the absolute very least they could have done was know their source material, aka the original show. They had their pick of original actors alive and willing to come back and they squandered most of them by either giving them no worthy story/backstory (e.g. Lucy and Ray) or not even hiring the actors when they were interested in reprising their role (e.g. Morgan Brittany).

Thank you for the in-depth information.

 

[Miss Texas 1967]

I have one more, this is a bit petty but overall just confuses me and it appears a other people too if some of the comments are representative.

When they were marketing the show they had a Facebook page where they added parts to the timeline to "fill in the gaps". Random bits of info that may or may not have made sense to the continuity. Part of this was adding pictures. Backdating to the original show they have screencaps from episodes but any time they have the young John Ross or Christopher instead of it being a picture of the original actors playing the characters as you'd expect to see them (Tyler Banks (toddler John Ross), Omri Katz (child and teenage John Ross), Eric Farlow (toddler Christopher), Joshua Harris (child Christopher) or Chris Demetral (teenage Christopher)) it was a picture of Josh Henderson or Jesse Metcalfe as children. It was just an odd choice to make. Like sure, these guys are now the adult versions of the characters, but pictures of them as kids doesn't register in an original viewer's mind as being the younger version of that character.

Examples below taken from the official page https://www.facebook.com/pg/Dallas/

 

[Toni]

I have one more, this is a bit petty but overall just confuses me and it appears a other people too if some of the comments are representative.

When they were marketing the show they had a Facebook page where they added parts to the timeline to "fill in the gaps". Random bits of info that may or may not have made sense to the continuity. Part of this was adding pictures. Backdating to the original show they have screencaps from episodes but any time they have the young John Ross or Christopher instead of it being a picture of the original actors playing the characters as you'd expect to see them (Tyler Banks (toddler John Ross), Omri Katz (child and teenage John Ross), Eric Farlow (toddler Christopher), Joshua Harris (child Christopher) or Chris Demetral (teenage Christopher)) it was a picture of Josh Henderson or Jesse Metcalfe as children. It was just an odd choice to make. Like sure, these guys are now the adult versions of the characters, but pictures of them as kids doesn't register in an original viewer's mind as being the younger version of that character.

Examples below taken from the official page https://www.facebook.com/pg/Dallas/

Just another way from the Cider House to say FU to the original series and cast. Oh Gawd, I hate that woman...

 

[Rove]

this is a bit petty but overall just confuses me and it appears a other people too if some of the comments are representative.

Thankfully I'm not on facebook otherwise they would have copped a blast from this avid viewer. I'm assuming the producers utilizing images of Josh and Jesse as the younger John Ross and Christopher was to avoid paying any royalties to the other actors. Still if I was in Omri's position I'd be a little miffed they used a screenshot from Lorimar Dallas to promote the series because that's clearly Omri with his back to the camera as he engages with Larry.

 

[Rove]

Entire Ramos family backstory never happened on the original show and the repeated references were just cheap attempts to retroactively add characters instead of pulling from the original material

I still believe this was THE issue which drove so many viewers away. This is what happens when you treat loyal fans with contempt. Would love to have been a fly on the wall when those initial ratings came in for the premiere of TNT Dallas only to see the results a week later when half your audience vanished, along with Pam's first husband.

 

[Miss Texas 1967]

Thankfully I'm not on facebook otherwise they would have copped a blast from this avid viewer. I'm assuming the producers utilizing images of Josh and Jesse as the younger John Ross and Christopher was to avoid paying any royalties to the other actors. Still if I was in Omri's position I'd be a little miffed they used a screenshot from Lorimar Dallas to promote the series because that's clearly Omri with his back to the camera as he engages with Larry.

I still believe this was THE issue which drove so many viewers away. This is what happens when you treat loyal fans with contempt. Would love to have been a fly on the wall when those initial ratings came in for the premiere of TNT Dallas only to see the results a week later when half your audience vanished, along with Pam's first husband.

You'll love this then along with the random photos of the new actors came captions about each scene, some pushing the "Elena has always been here" storyline

(there are more, every picture including the original screencaps has a caption, obviously I'm not going to paste them all here)

 

[Herofan]

Is Dallas among the shows whose continuity was butchered the most in their return shows?
I’ve seen other reunion shows and movies, and I don’t recall anything quite this different.

It’s been a long time since I saw J.R. Returns, but I remember enjoying it fairly well. Did it have a lot of issues too?

 

[Karin Schill]

I loved JR Returns. In it JR came back and out on top and also Bobby and Sue Ellen ended up with Ewing Oil. WOTE wasn't all that great though. Still I wish CC had kept the reunion movies instead of doing the dumb Rebecca Sutter is really Pamela Barnes plot in season one. It would have been better if we had known all along who she was and had her marry John Ross in a classic love story. Although JR Returns did seem to indicate that Pamela prefered Chris.

Thanks for listing all of the errors @Miss Texas 1967
They really goofed up a lot.

I didn't mind them using photos of the new actors on the facebook page. What I did mind however was when they wrote that a photo from the Oil baron's ball was from New Years Eve. It just shows how little they knew about the show.

 

[Rove]

some pushing the "Elena has always been here" storyline

Thanks for that screenshot Miss Texas. Is it just me or does the following sound really juvenile;

John Ross and Elena stole my camera and ran off to a part of the ranch I've never seen before....

Oddly, the accompanying photo doesn't look anything like Southfork land.

 

[Seaviewer]

the dumb Rebecca Sutter is really Pamela Barnes plot

I'm pretty sure they changed that after filming had begun due to viewer backlash about the lack of Barneses.

 

[TJames03]

I allow the incident with Ellie being in the institution to have happened because that would explain the appearance of Donna Reed.

 

[JR Ewing Fan]

Also why was Bobby angry at Afton? Kept bringing up that she slept with JR. By the time Afton left the original series, they liked each other. Afton kept warning everyone about Katherine's interest in Bobby and Afton was the one who saved Bobby when he was shot. Also didn't like how Val and Sue Ellen hated each other. Didn't make much sense to me. They didn't have that many scenes in original Dallas to hate each other that much.

 

[Billy Wall]

Also why was Bobby angry at Afton? Kept bringing up that she slept with JR. By the time Afton left the original series, they liked each other. Afton kept warning everyone about Katherine's interest in Bobby and Afton was the one who saved Bobby when he was shot. Also didn't like how Val and Sue Ellen hated each other. Didn't make much sense to me. They didn't have that many scenes in original Dallas to hate each other that much.

Didn’t Sue Ellen hate anyone that she thought was a threat to her standing at Southfork? She originally didn’t like Pam or (that Barnes girl) as she used to call her.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Is Dallas among the shows whose continuity was butchered the most in their return shows?
I’ve seen other reunion shows and movies, and I don’t recall anything quite this different.

It’s been a long time since I saw J.R. Returns, but I remember enjoying it fairly well. Did it have a lot of issues too?

No, I don't think so.

I'm fairly sure JR Returns was written by Arthur Bernard Lewis & Leonard Katzman produced it. It was an Olive Production rather than Lorimar, as Lorimar had been absorbed into Warner Bros. by then. Both Art & Lenny were Dallas stalwarts from the TV series.

 

[Karin Schill]

Well according to IMDB Lewis & Katzman co-wrote it and Katzman produced it. But yeah they both worked for many years on the original Dallas and helped making it into the success that it was so no wonder JR Returns feels more like original Dallas than Dallas TNT does.

 

[Billy Wall]

But yeah they both worked for many years on the original Dallas and helped making it into the success that it was so no wonder JR Returns feels more like original Dallas than Dallas TNT does.

That, and the original cast was still fairly young and a lot of them came back. Same set design also helped. JR Returns was pretty much a continuation of the original Dallas, Dallas TNT really wasn’t.

 

[Karin Schill]

JR Returns would have been a worthy ending to the show if the Julia character had been Pamela Barnes and somehow I suspect that she was in the first draft of the script. Just think about it, the character knew Bobby from before and she knew Afton and was taking care of Pamela Rebecca while Afton was away working. With a new character all of that made no sense. But if she had been Pam it would have.