Joan’s “Unapologetic” appearance with Graham Norton

rayray

Telly Talk Member
LV
0
 
Messages
55
Reaction score
124
Awards
1
Location
California
Member Since
Who the hell knows.
Hi all,
Did anyone else view the streaming version, or attend in person, this evening’s Drury Lane talk with Joan and Graham Norton?

I watched the first bit, prior to the interval, then had to attend a client meeting. My impression was that Joan has expected attendees to mostly be Tory-ish (“We miss him, don’t we?” whilst mentioning Piers Morgan) and that she was referencing stories that leaned heavily into the bitchery that remains from her Alexis persona. The mean-spirited discussion around Linda Evans felt exceptionally uncalled for, and a repeat of what we’d heard before around the run of “Legends“.

I was pleased to watch what I could of it, and was simultaneously disturbed that the “unapologetic” seemed to refer both to her newly public conservative leanings, as well as a commitment to keep “cruel Alexis” as an attention-getting persona. Sigh.

I remain a fan of Graham Norton, though I do think there was a wee bit too much cackling over bitchery than was called for, since Joan actually has a body of work that is worthy of respect apart from the nasty stories about other actors. But then, nasty stories will sell those books.

Did anyone else view this discussion? What did you think?
 

Jack O'Lantern Jimmy

Telly Talk Dream Maker
LV
0
 
Messages
1,627
Reaction score
2,387
Awards
4
Location
United States
Member Since
2019
Hi all,
Did anyone else view the streaming version, or attend in person, this evening’s Drury Lane talk with Joan and Graham Norton?

I watched the first bit, prior to the interval, then had to attend a client meeting. My impression was that Joan has expected attendees to mostly be Tory-ish (“We miss him, don’t we?” whilst mentioning Piers Morgan) and that she was referencing stories that leaned heavily into the bitchery that remains from her Alexis persona. The mean-spirited discussion around Linda Evans felt exceptionally uncalled for, and a repeat of what we’d heard before around the run of “Legends“.

I was pleased to watch what I could of it, and was simultaneously disturbed that the “unapologetic” seemed to refer both to her newly public conservative leanings, as well as a commitment to keep “cruel Alexis” as an attention-getting persona. Sigh.

I remain a fan of Graham Norton, though I do think there was a wee bit too much cackling over bitchery than was called for, since Joan actually has a body of work that is worthy of respect apart from the nasty stories about other actors. But then, nasty stories will sell those books.

Did anyone else view this discussion? What did you think?
I didn't see it, but I've read about some of the things she has said. Joan's real talent seems to be staying in the public eye after all these years. I think she takes shots at Linda Evans because she knows Linda just ignores her and won't respond. Also, Linda has a reputation, and it seems to be true as fast as I know, a a general nice, good-hearted person. Casting aspersions on her is akin to revealing dirt on Mary Poppins. It's surprising and so gets more attention.
I believe Joan sees everything she says as part of the "business" of a star. She probably figures Linda is worth millions, so why should she care what Joan says about her?
On second thought, I bet Joan would love for Linda to respond to her comments so they could have a public feud, thus garnering her more media attention.
 

Alexis Hexed Us

Telly Talk Superhero
LV
1
 
Messages
7,276
Solutions
1
Reaction score
8,577
Awards
8
Member Since
July 2007
I go see her show on Thursday and I'm a little on edge now. I obviously love Joan, as an entertainer, as an actress and for her iconic role as Alexis. She amuses me and has given me a lot of joy threw my life. However, I couldn't be any further from her politically. Over the last few years her Tory leanings have made me feel more and more uneasy. I had hoped that this show would be more about her career and a little bitchy show biz gossip thrown in for good measure. I really hope it's not too much of her spewing elitist, unrealistic, Tory leaning nonsense. I had also hoped that she wouldn't debase herself by leaning into the very arch stereotype of the grand bitchy diva. I'm not here for potshots at Linda.

I really expected a career retrospective with stories and anecdotes about things that she had to overcome as a woman and an actress and a mother.
 

rayray

Telly Talk Member
LV
0
 
Messages
55
Reaction score
124
Awards
1
Location
California
Member Since
Who the hell knows.
I go see her show on Thursday and I'm a little on edge now. I obviously love Joan, as an entertainer, as an actress and for her iconic role as Alexis. She amuses me and has given me a lot of joy threw my life. However, I couldn't be any further from her politically. Over the last few years her Tory leanings have made me feel more and more uneasy. I had hoped that this show would be more about her career and a little bitchy show biz gossip thrown in for good measure. I really hope it's not too much of her spewing elitist, unrealistic, Tory leaning nonsense. I had also hoped that she wouldn't debase herself by leaning into the very arch stereotype of the grand bitchy diva. I'm not here for potshots at Linda.

I really expected a career retrospective with stories and anecdotes about things that she had to overcome as a woman and an actress and a mother.
I’ll be honest, I am a long-term fan of Joan’s and this conversation didn’t feel as “worth it“ as her previous one-woman show. She and whoever is producing seem to be tripling-down on her appeal as an unapologetically Tory-leaning, anti PC, blah blah etc etc figure, in what Jimmy Todd above correctly notes as an ongoing quest for coverage/relevance. It was entertaining, AND also troubling.

If only they’d have doubled down on what she has made it through, and perhaps some deeper introspection on how her experience provides illustrative examples of how women’s careers and position in society have and have not changed during the last 80-odd years.
 

Snarky Oracle

Telly Talk Oracle
LV
2
 
Messages
9,501
Reaction score
9,727
Awards
13
Location
Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
Member Since
September 2000
I didn't see it, but I've read about some of the things she has said. Joan's real talent seems to be staying in the public eye after all these years. I think she takes shots at Linda Evans because she knows Linda just ignores her and won't respond. Also, Linda has a reputation, and it seems to be true as fast as I know, a a general nice, good-hearted person. Casting aspersions on her is akin to revealing dirt on Mary Poppins. It's surprising and so gets more attention.
I believe Joan sees everything she says as part of the "business" of a star. She probably figures Linda is worth millions, so why should she care what Joan says about her?
On second thought, I bet Joan would love for Linda to respond to her comments so they could have a public feud, thus garnering her more media attention.

The one time Linda's rep did respond, circa 2007, telling Joan publicly to "shut the eff up", Joan immediately went to the media and pretended Linda had started it, saying, "Well, thanks a lot, Linder...!" But you knew Joan was secretly thrilled that Linda had thrown her a bone.

 

Snarky Oracle

Telly Talk Oracle
LV
2
 
Messages
9,501
Reaction score
9,727
Awards
13
Location
Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
Member Since
September 2000
Until Joan's most recent appearance on Graham Norton's show appears on Youtube, here's an 1 hour 42 minutes video detailing Joan's issues with David Letterman in the '80s and '90s. So just open up a keg of malt liquor and sit back:

 

Karin Schill

Moderator
Staff Member
LV
2
 
Messages
6,004
Reaction score
9,956
Awards
12
Location
Sweden
Member Since
September 2004
I go see her show on Thursday and I'm a little on edge now. I obviously love Joan, as an entertainer, as an actress and for her iconic role as Alexis. She amuses me and has given me a lot of joy threw my life. However, I couldn't be any further from her politically. Over the last few years her Tory leanings have made me feel more and more uneasy. I had hoped that this show would be more about her career and a little bitchy show biz gossip thrown in for good measure. I really hope it's not too much of her spewing elitist, unrealistic, Tory leaning nonsense. I had also hoped that she wouldn't debase herself by leaning into the very arch stereotype of the grand bitchy diva. I'm not here for potshots at Linda.

I really expected a career retrospective with stories and anecdotes about things that she had to overcome as a woman and an actress and a mother.
Enjoy the show Alexis and try not to let her political opinions get in the way of being entertained. Joan Collins can be very funny and does have many great stories to tell.
 

rayray

Telly Talk Member
LV
0
 
Messages
55
Reaction score
124
Awards
1
Location
California
Member Since
Who the hell knows.
Enjoy the show Alexis and try not to let her political opinions get in the way of being entertained. Joan Collins can be very funny and does have many great stories to tell.
Indeed! There will be much to enjoy!
 

TheWorldaStage

Telly Talk Member
LV
0
 
Messages
35
Reaction score
72
Location
Canadian living in England
I almost went in person to London but decided to just do the streaming. I haven't watched yet, and I have access to it for about a week. So I will do my best to watch and maybe share the more standout/interesting points.
 

Laurie Marr

Telly Talk Fan
LV
0
 
Messages
345
Reaction score
457
Awards
3
Location
Manchester,UK
Joan has a new angle now that ‘woke’ is something she can inveigh against. If the culture wars provides a context for another one woman show, then she’ll go with that. Joan will roll out her show on the flimsiest of pretexts.

The show from a few years back (with Percy moderating) was entertaining. She even made a disparaging comment about me when she came to my written question about the decline in the quality of the scripts, the role of the Pollocks and the arrival of Paulsen: ‘They didn’t do too badly making us the number one show in the world. Then this Dallas guy came in as the executioner. Wow! You’re such a geek.’

I may have had the dubious honour of being bitchslapped by Alexis, but I wish I hadn’t bothered.
 
Last edited:

TheWorldaStage

Telly Talk Member
LV
0
 
Messages
35
Reaction score
72
Location
Canadian living in England
I watched the first half. Part 1 of 2 recap below. Apologies in advance if the grammar or spelling isn't perfect, though I did a mini proofread. I was constantly stopping the video and typing.


Dame Joan Collins is Unapologetic: Part 1

Spent most of covid/pandemic in London, with some time in south of France at her home there. Most days would read at least four newspapers, read American news online and that would take her to lunchtime. Also watched loads of television starting with Piers Morgan in the morning and of course Graham Norton.

Started diaries by speaking and recording a tape recorder at the end of Dynasty. it is about events, parties, dinners, endless rejections (as an actress).
Was up for Cruella de Vil (promised the role for 2.5 years, especially by her own team and after testing for it) and it fell through. Graham Norton says apparently there is a unflattering/bad review of the movie(?) in her book.

Graham asks if she is ever nostalgic for the past, she says no. In the process of transcribing, she was surprised how much she did and how much travelling etc. she did. Joan says she is an active person and her mother used to call her "miss perpetual motion".

At one dinner when she was sandwiched between Gregory Peck and Frank Sinatra, Gregory told Joan about his one-man show and suggested she do it, so she did from 2004.

Met Donald Trump and Ivanka (I believe she said Ivanka) in the late 80s while peddling perfume. Apparently Donald phoned one of Dynasty's producers and asked for a role, but they told him everything was cast. Donald said, just put me as one of Joan's lovers - and later denied it when people found out about it (Joan says she told people), stating something like, "I would never want to be one of her lovers, on or off screen!"

Graham said something about a lot of famous people in the book, but Joan pointed out they just happen to come across her path. Then said some of them are in the audience and pointed out someone by name - Christopher Biggins I believe? (Or someone else with a similar sounding name.)

Thought These Old Broads should have been called "These Fabulous Broads". Said Elizabeth Taylor (in declining health) insisted on being called Dame Elizabeth throughout the shoot, wanted it written on her chair and in the script. But Joan says Elizabeth was "very, very sweet". Elizabeth and Debbie Reynolds had not spoken to each other in 25 years, something about Elizabeth stealing Eddie Reynolds from her ("a great hatred" there). But Debbie did go on to speak to Elizabeth and all four of the ladies did get on.

Asked if she regrets anything she turned down. In the 60s there was a role in the movie Sons and Lovers with Dean Stockwell. Everyone was telling her it was a good role, except Warren Beatty who seemed to think he was "an expert on scripts". Also he did not like her going to England because they were in L.A. The woman who did the role got an Oscar nomination. Graham says well, where is she now? Joan says, not with us anymore. (Audience awkwardly laughs.)

During These Old Broads, Shirley asks Joan "So how is my Warren? In the, you know [in bed]..." Joan swiftly replies, "Overrated."

Met her present husband Percy in New York. Was doing a book signing. Was suppose to meet Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward but was late because of traffic so she missed them. Paul said, "We were there, where were you?" which Joan says was typical of him. Then she met a couple of men because they were coming on tour for Love Letters (assuming theatre) with George Hamilton. To the first man, she said: "My, you look young." The second, Percy, asked, "What about me?" Joan said, "You'll do." George Hamilton was dating Danielle Steele. Over time Joan and Percy got closer. She says as she gets older, the fact that he is younger (by 30 years): "It gets better!" (Audience laughs.)

Graham asks her what her relationship with Linda was like back then, as we all know what it is now (audience laughter). Joan says they weren't close and that Linda was "quite sneery" about Joan not wanting to do stunts. The repeated story: Joan never does stunts as it takes work away from stunt people. Linda said "Why not, Barbara Stanwyck said I can always do it!" Joan clapped back: "Well Gene Kelly told me that I shouldn't!" (Gene Kelly is a "bigger star".)

The theatre productions Legends: Joan originally liked the producer but grew to loathe him. Joan had suggestions for her co-star: Debbie Reynolds, Michelle Leed(?), Donna Mills, etc. - actresses with good stage presence. Producer said theatres wanted Linda Evans, but Joan said Linda only knows television acting (not theatre) and had never done a movie. (At this point the audience starts murmuring and ooooh.) She asks the audience if Linda had done a movie. Graham asks the audience about Joan's memory. Joan makes a joke that there is a big Linda Evans fan in the audience who doesn't like what she is saying.

Back to Legends, Joan says Linda asked why she had to move around the stage, and that Joan had to explain it's more organic and not like television where you often stand in one spot. Joan started calling Linda "Dame Idiot" (or Damn Idiot maybe, wasn't clear - I think the former). Joan said by the end they were at each other's throats. Also the producer told her off after 6 months when she said one different word on stage (when her brain slipped), not even a different sentence. It was a long 10 months. The producer(s) (and/or production people maybe) always took Linda's side. Apparently the producer was later charged for child pornography. The producer also hated Percy - and no one hates Percy, Joan emphasizes.

Graham says in the book that Linda sounds deranged. Something about holding on to Joan's costume and doing things like that. Joan said Linda held the scarf around Joan's neck and she couldn't move her head. Another time she would take a banana from Joan and take a bite on stage (the implication being then Joan couldn't use the prop or do the scene properly). She says there are a hundred examples like that. Graham points out that Joan says in the book that Linda is not a good actress. Joan kind of shrugs (seems to be suppressing a smile, maybe due to audience reaction too) and says that stage acting is very difficult, and she does credit Linda for being brave because you have to have a lot of balls to do theatre.
 

Snarky Oracle

Telly Talk Oracle
LV
2
 
Messages
9,501
Reaction score
9,727
Awards
13
Location
Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
Member Since
September 2000
She even made a disparaging comment about me when she came to my written question about the decline in the quality of the scripts, the role of the Pollocks and the arrival of Paulsen: ‘They didn’t do too badly making us the number one show in the world. Then this Dallas guy came in as the executioner. Wow! You’re such a geek.’

In 1988, Joan told Oprah Winfrey that the new producer (Paulsen) and his team were writing DYNASTY with "a much greater sense of fun" after years of rightly complaining about the Pollock's scripts which "really fell apart." But her tone changed when she was cut back to 13 out of22 episodes for budget reasons.

So she's vengeful.

Graham says in the book that Linda sounds deranged. Something about holding on to Joan's costume and doing things like that. Joan said Linda held the scarf around Joan's neck and she couldn't move her head. Another time she would take a banana from Joan and take a bite on stage (the implication being then Joan couldn't use the prop or do the scene properly). She says there are a hundred examples like that. Graham points out that Joan says in the book that Linda is not a good actress. Joan kind of shrugs (seems to be suppressing a smile, maybe due to audience reaction too) and says that stage acting is very difficult, and she does credit Linda for being brave because you have to have a lot of balls to do theatre.

Funny, because the general consensus was that Linda was better in LEGENDS than Joan was; even Gordon Thomson said so.

 

Snarky Oracle

Telly Talk Oracle
LV
2
 
Messages
9,501
Reaction score
9,727
Awards
13
Location
Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
Member Since
September 2000
Unfortunately, Joan seems to think her greatest role in life is playing Joan Collins.

Yes, that's exactly what she's trying for. She lacks the mesmerizing pathologies of a Joan Crawford (Collins has the phoniness, but even that doesn't work) and lacks the wit and grit of a Bette Davis -- although Collins would like to be both of them. Instead, Collins tries for mean-spirited raconteur for purposes of gravitas which she never achieves because she doesn't have the focus or the center to pull it off (at least not in spontaneous conversation).

Collins is a closet nice person constantly trying to sell her soul to The Devil and desperate to seem like A Bitch -- which is exactly the reverse of what Davis & Crawford were doing, but Collins doesn't quite understand that.

Frankly, it makes Collins come off as a tiresome dilettante, which I'm sure is not quite what she's aiming for.

 

Pamela_E

administrator
LV
0
 
Messages
585
Reaction score
889
Awards
5
Member Since
August 1998
I watched the first half. Part 1 of 2 recap below. Apologies in advance if the grammar or spelling isn't perfect, though I did a mini proofread. I was constantly stopping the video and typing.


Dame Joan Collins is Unapologetic: Part 1

Spent most of covid/pandemic in London, with some time in south of France at her home there. Most days would read at least four newspapers, read American news online and that would take her to lunchtime. Also watched loads of television starting with Piers Morgan in the morning and of course Graham Norton.

Started diaries by speaking and recording a tape recorder at the end of Dynasty. it is about events, parties, dinners, endless rejections (as an actress).
Was up for Cruella de Vil (promised the role for 2.5 years, especially by her own team and after testing for it) and it fell through. Graham Norton says apparently there is a unflattering/bad review of the movie(?) in her book.

Graham asks if she is ever nostalgic for the past, she says no. In the process of transcribing, she was surprised how much she did and how much travelling etc. she did. Joan says she is an active person and her mother used to call her "miss perpetual motion".

At one dinner when she was sandwiched between Gregory Peck and Frank Sinatra, Gregory told Joan about his one-man show and suggested she do it, so she did from 2004.

Met Donald Trump and Ivanka (I believe she said Ivanka) in the late 80s while peddling perfume. Apparently Donald phoned one of Dynasty's producers and asked for a role, but they told him everything was cast. Donald said, just put me as one of Joan's lovers - and later denied it when people found out about it (Joan says she told people), stating something like, "I would never want to be one of her lovers, on or off screen!"

Graham said something about a lot of famous people in the book, but Joan pointed out they just happen to come across her path. Then said some of them are in the audience and pointed out someone by name - Christopher Biggins I believe? (Or someone else with a similar sounding name.)

Thought These Old Broads should have been called "These Fabulous Broads". Said Elizabeth Taylor (in declining health) insisted on being called Dame Elizabeth throughout the shoot, wanted it written on her chair and in the script. But Joan says Elizabeth was "very, very sweet". Elizabeth and Debbie Reynolds had not spoken to each other in 25 years, something about Elizabeth stealing Eddie Reynolds from her ("a great hatred" there). But Debbie did go on to speak to Elizabeth and all four of the ladies did get on.

Asked if she regrets anything she turned down. In the 60s there was a role in the movie Sons and Lovers with Dean Stockwell. Everyone was telling her it was a good role, except Warren Beatty who seemed to think he was "an expert on scripts". Also he did not like her going to England because they were in L.A. The woman who did the role got an Oscar nomination. Graham says well, where is she now? Joan says, not with us anymore. (Audience awkwardly laughs.)

During These Old Broads, Shirley asks Joan "So how is my Warren? In the, you know [in bed]..." Joan swiftly replies, "Overrated."

Met her present husband Percy in New York. Was doing a book signing. Was suppose to meet Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward but was late because of traffic so she missed them. Paul said, "We were there, where were you?" which Joan says was typical of him. Then she met a couple of men because they were coming on tour for Love Letters (assuming theatre) with George Hamilton. To the first man, she said: "My, you look young." The second, Percy, asked, "What about me?" Joan said, "You'll do." George Hamilton was dating Danielle Steele. Over time Joan and Percy got closer. She says as she gets older, the fact that he is younger (by 30 years): "It gets better!" (Audience laughs.)

Graham asks her what her relationship with Linda was like back then, as we all know what it is now (audience laughter). Joan says they weren't close and that Linda was "quite sneery" about Joan not wanting to do stunts. The repeated story: Joan never does stunts as it takes work away from stunt people. Linda said "Why not, Barbara Stanwyck said I can always do it!" Joan clapped back: "Well Gene Kelly told me that I shouldn't!" (Gene Kelly is a "bigger star".)

The theatre productions Legends: Joan originally liked the producer but grew to loathe him. Joan had suggestions for her co-star: Debbie Reynolds, Michelle Leed(?), Donna Mills, etc. - actresses with good stage presence. Producer said theatres wanted Linda Evans, but Joan said Linda only knows television acting (not theatre) and had never done a movie. (At this point the audience starts murmuring and ooooh.) She asks the audience if Linda had done a movie. Graham asks the audience about Joan's memory. Joan makes a joke that there is a big Linda Evans fan in the audience who doesn't like what she is saying.

Back to Legends, Joan says Linda asked why she had to move around the stage, and that Joan had to explain it's more organic and not like television where you often stand in one spot. Joan started calling Linda "Dame Idiot" (or Damn Idiot maybe, wasn't clear - I think the former). Joan said by the end they were at each other's throats. Also the producer told her off after 6 months when she said one different word on stage (when her brain slipped), not even a different sentence. It was a long 10 months. The producer(s) (and/or production people maybe) always took Linda's side. Apparently the producer was later charged for child pornography. The producer also hated Percy - and no one hates Percy, Joan emphasizes.

Graham says in the book that Linda sounds deranged. Something about holding on to Joan's costume and doing things like that. Joan said Linda held the scarf around Joan's neck and she couldn't move her head. Another time she would take a banana from Joan and take a bite on stage (the implication being then Joan couldn't use the prop or do the scene properly). She says there are a hundred examples like that. Graham points out that Joan says in the book that Linda is not a good actress. Joan kind of shrugs (seems to be suppressing a smile, maybe due to audience reaction too) and says that stage acting is very difficult, and she does credit Linda for being brave because you have to have a lot of balls to do theatre.

Has Linda ever been asked for her side of these stories? I wondered if she has ever said anything or responded.
 

Alexis Hexed Us

Telly Talk Superhero
LV
1
 
Messages
7,276
Solutions
1
Reaction score
8,577
Awards
8
Member Since
July 2007
Has Linda ever been asked for her side of these stories? I wondered if she has ever said anything or responded.
In general Linda doesn't bite back at Joan's stuff. I don't think she would lower herself. Although at one point I think her agent put out a statement when Joan was doing that stuff in the Daily Mail maybe about Legends. I think she was basically told to shut the f**k up.
 

Weenie Halloson

Telly Talk Schemer
LV
3
 
Messages
16,019
Reaction score
22,571
Awards
14
Location
Plotville, Shenanigan
Member Since
April 2002
During These Old Broads, Shirley asks Joan "So how is my Warren? In the, you know [in bed]..." Joan swiftly replies, "Overrated."
I think she said something different in the Piers Morgan interview.
But her tone changed when she was cut back to 13 out of22 episodes for budget reasons
So it's more about the money (not getting it) than not being in the episodes? After all, she intended to quit Dynasty in case they had done a tenth season, didn't she?
 

Pamela_E

administrator
LV
0
 
Messages
585
Reaction score
889
Awards
5
Member Since
August 1998
In general Linda doesn't bite back at Joan's stuff. I don't think she would lower herself. Although at one point I think her agent put out a statement when Joan was doing that stuff in the Daily Mail maybe about Legends. I think she was basically told to shut the f**k up.

Yeah, I saw a zoom interview with Linda, maybe from last year and she does talk about how Joan is a good mother. It's funny how both of them seem to be playing into their Dynasty roles.
 

Scream Queen Sarah

Super Moderator
Staff Member
LV
2
 
Messages
8,541
Reaction score
10,494
Awards
12
Location
Ireland (North)
Member Since
1998
Favourite Movie
Silence of the Lambs
It disappoints me that she finds the need to have a caricature, if you think that is what she is doing. Why not just be herself? I guess Larry played to a caricature in some ways but he was never nasty about anyone.
 
Top