Katherine's death.......

TJames03

Telly Talk Dream Maker
Messages
1,724
Reaction score
390
Location
California
Medals
2
While there was never a cause given, I've always thought it was one of two things: pancreatic cancer (could be a genetic family trait? Perhaps if Rebecca hadn't died in the plane crash in 1983 she would have died from it, too) or suicide due to mental illness.

A shame we will never know for sure........
 
Last edited:

garry

Telly Talk Active Member
Messages
124
Reaction score
232
Location
Outer Hebrides
Member Since
2003
She was murdered in Mexico by some drug cartel. :D

Katherine's death was one of many mistakes made by the producer who though she had died for real after running over Bobby. 0/10 for research.
 

Frank Underwood

Telly Talk Star
Messages
2,641
Reaction score
555
Medals
3
Member Since
June 2001
I don't even remember Katherine mentioned in the TNT series:confused: I'm currently on the re-watch, however, so hopefully I'll notice this time.
It was part of the storyline involving the Ewings trying to get controlling interest in Barnes Global (I'm assuming this used to be Wentworth Tool and Dye.) Katherine left her third of the company to Cliff, who then turned it over to Pamela Rebecca. This further proved Cidre didn't do her research because Katherine wouldn't have left Cliff a plug nickel.

Cidre was asked about Katherine, and gave this ridiculous response:

TV Guide Magazine: How did Katherine Wentworth [Pam and Cliff's half sister] die, and is she really dead?
Cidre: I don't know if she's really dead. There's no proof of that. There's always the chance that Cliff was also faking her death. That she's living in the Cayman Islands supported by Cliff just so he could control her third of the shares. Anything's possible. The only thing definitive about Katherine is that she gave her beautiful emerald earrings to Cliff, and Pamela Ewing (Julie Gonzalo) now wears them.
 

TJames03

Telly Talk Dream Maker
Messages
1,724
Reaction score
390
Location
California
Medals
2
It was part of the storyline involving the Ewings trying to get controlling interest in Barnes Global (I'm assuming this used to be Wentworth Tool and Dye.) Katherine left her third of the company to Cliff, who then turned it over to Pamela Rebecca. This further proved Cidre didn't do her research because Katherine wouldn't have left Cliff a plug nickel.

Cidre was asked about Katherine, and gave this ridiculous response:

TV Guide Magazine: How did Katherine Wentworth [Pam and Cliff's half sister] die, and is she really dead?
Cidre: I don't know if she's really dead. There's no proof of that. There's always the chance that Cliff was also faking her death. That she's living in the Cayman Islands supported by Cliff just so he could control her third of the shares. Anything's possible. The only thing definitive about Katherine is that she gave her beautiful emerald earrings to Cliff, and Pamela Ewing (Julie Gonzalo) now wears them.
Cidre really is f.cking poison, isn’t she? That entire statement didn’t even make a shred of sense......
 

Rove

Telly Talk Mega Star
Messages
3,153
Reaction score
2,781
Location
Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia
The only thing definitive about Katherine is that she gave her beautiful emerald earrings to Cliff
As if Katherine would gift her beautiful emerald earrings to Cliff. She loathed her half-brother immensely and rightly so. What was frustrating about Katherine's mid-sentence death on TNT Dallas was how unnecessary it is. The showrunner and writers go to great pains in retconning the Ramos family into Lorimar Dallas but somehow play wishy washy with a character so central in Dallas. The response from Cynthia to this question sounds like she is back-peddling to save face. Wasn't it a fan who contacted Morgan after the episode went to air and then Cynthia contacted Morgan's agent and apologized? "Oops, my bad," said Cynthia.

And why didn't Patrick pull someone up when they did a script read through and put the question out there. "How did Katherine die?" Surely he would have known the importance this character was to fans of Dallas. It annoys me so much when expects in their chosen craft cannot pay due respect to the minor details however in this case it was a giant stuff up.
 

Frank Underwood

Telly Talk Star
Messages
2,641
Reaction score
555
Medals
3
Member Since
June 2001
As if Katherine would gift her beautiful emerald earrings to Cliff. She loathed her half-brother immensely and rightly so. What was frustrating about Katherine's mid-sentence death on TNT Dallas was how unnecessary it is. The showrunner and writers go to great pains in retconning the Ramos family into Lorimar Dallas but somehow play wishy washy with a character so central in Dallas. The response from Cynthia to this question sounds like she is back-peddling to save face. Wasn't it a fan who contacted Morgan after the episode went to air and then Cynthia contacted Morgan's agent and apologized? "Oops, my bad," said Cynthia.

And why didn't Patrick pull someone up when they did a script read through and put the question out there. "How did Katherine die?" Surely he would have known the importance this character was to fans of Dallas. It annoys me so much when expects in their chosen craft cannot pay due respect to the minor details however in this case it was a giant stuff up.
Yes, I distinctly remember Cidre apologizing and saying that killing off Katherine was a mistake. However, I couldn't find where that originated from during my most recent search.

The problem with Cidre is she made this ambitious claim to preserve the show's history, but she could never live up to that promise because she half-assed everything.

I believe Patrick spoke to Cidre about Miss Ellie leaving half of Southfork to John Ross, and was rebuffed. He probably figured there was no point talking to her about anything else.
 

TJames03

Telly Talk Dream Maker
Messages
1,724
Reaction score
390
Location
California
Medals
2
Duffy always kissed the @ss of anyone that happened to sign his paycheck (Hagman and Gray, too), so don’t look for any help there.

Yes, it always boggled my mind how so many people were genuinely confused as to why Katherine hated Cliff (and Pam, for that matter). It was really rather pretty obvious....
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Messages
2,672
Reaction score
1,299
Location
Maryland
Medals
2
I believe Patrick spoke to Cidre about Miss Ellie leaving half of Southfork to John Ross, and was rebuffed. He probably figured there was no point talking to her about anything else.
It wasn't his job, but it's nice he helped with that anyway. It's shows he cared about the history of the show.

Duffy always kissed the @ss of anyone that happened to sign his paycheck (Hagman and Gray, too)
Did you ever work with any of them? If not, what is that statement based on?
 
Last edited:

Michael Torrance

Telly Talk Mega Star
Messages
3,011
Reaction score
1,979
Location
Roaming
Member Since
2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
I am a bit astounded how people expect actors to badmouth their shows while they are still on it. Is there any other sector where bitching about your boss and job won't get you fired?
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Messages
2,672
Reaction score
1,299
Location
Maryland
Medals
2
I am a bit astounded how people expect actors to badmouth their shows while they are still on it. Is there any other sector where bitching about your boss and job won't get you fired?
I know. There have been some actors who have tried that approach and were practically blackballed from the industry as a result. Mickey Rourke is an example of that. He was at the top of his profession in the 80s but he got a reputation for doing just what you said and it got to where practically nobody would hire him to be in their movies anymore.
 

Rove

Telly Talk Mega Star
Messages
3,153
Reaction score
2,781
Location
Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia
I am a bit astounded how people expect actors to badmouth their shows while they are still on it. Is there any other sector where bitching about your boss and job won't get you fired?
It's not so much about bad mouthing the series however there are ways of navigating issues in a sensitive way. I'm not expecting Patrick to exclaim on set, "Who wrote this garbage?" A simple and kind way would have been for Patrick to draw the writers attention to the simplified death of a major character.

And by her own admission...

TV Guide Magazine: How did Katherine Wentworth [Pam and Cliff's half sister] die, and is she really dead?
Cidre: I don't know if she's really dead. There's no proof of that. There's always the chance that Cliff was also faking her death. That she's living in the Cayman Islands supported by Cliff just so he could control her third of the shares. Anything's possible.
Cynthia - after the episode had aired killing off Katherine - clearly didn't expect the backlash from long term Dallas fanatics. She now wishes to clarify by stating Katherine may not be dead after all, "There's always the chance that Cliff was also faking her death."

Another duck pond moment.
 

TJames03

Telly Talk Dream Maker
Messages
1,724
Reaction score
390
Location
California
Medals
2
Well, now that TNT Dallas is dead and there are no revivals in the future, Katherine IS dead......
 

Frank Underwood

Telly Talk Star
Messages
2,641
Reaction score
555
Medals
3
Member Since
June 2001
I am a bit astounded how people expect actors to badmouth their shows while they are still on it. Is there any other sector where bitching about your boss and job won't get you fired?
I know. There have been some actors who have tried that approach and were practically blackballed from the industry as a result. Mickey Rourke is an example of that. He was at the top of his profession in the 80s but he got a reputation for doing just what you said and it got to where practically nobody would hire him to be in their movies anymore.
But by the same token, you also don't have to engage in overt fawning or accusing the previous show of being inferior to keep your job. These actors worked on the original Dallas. Cidre didn't. If she wrote something they knew didn't fit, I don't see what's wrong with them bringing it to her attention. That's hardly the same thing as bashing her and the show.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Messages
2,672
Reaction score
1,299
Location
Maryland
Medals
2
If she wrote something they knew didn't fit, I don't see what's wrong with them bringing it to her attention.
I am pretty sure I remember hearing that Patrick Duffy did exactly that but to no avail. Cider wouldn't listen. At least that's how I remember hearing it from back when TNT Dallas was on the air and the old forum was talking about it non-stop. Too bad that forum got lost.


you also don't have to engage in overt fawning or accusing the previous show of being inferior to keep your job.
Absolutely. I definitely agree with that. I didn't know Gray. Hagman, and Duffy all accused original Dallas (real Dallas) of being inferior. I didn't know that any of them did, but sure, if one or two of them or all of them, whatever the case may be, did that then I don't like that at all.

Regarding "overt fawning" that doesn't matter to me too much one way or the other. I didn't even consider TNT Dallas to be a genuine continuation as it had too many errors and rewriting of history as well as a fundamental change in the structure of it from character driven to plot driven. So I have no reason to defend it. A tremendous opportunity was squandered because Cidre decided to use the Dallas name solely to get publicity and recognition for her project which vaguely resembled Dallas, at best! If one or two of them or all 3 of them got extremely enthusiastic about it though, and I can see how just having your two best friends working with you for the first time since 1991 could be very exciting, so I can forgive some "overt fawning" in light of the unique circumstances.
 

Michael Torrance

Telly Talk Mega Star
Messages
3,011
Reaction score
1,979
Location
Roaming
Member Since
2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
A simple and kind way would have been for Patrick to draw the writers attention to the simplified death of a major character.
Well, if he did, I am not sure we would know it though.

But by the same token, you also don't have to engage in overt fawning or accusing the previous show of being inferior to keep your job. These actors worked on the original Dallas. Cidre didn't. If she wrote something they knew didn't fit, I don't see what's wrong with them bringing it to her attention. That's hardly the same thing as bashing her and the show.
I don't know what statement you refer to, unless it is the one where he says that the later years of Dallas were ones where they had lost perspective of what makes a good story. I don't think he's wrong about that (hence my puzzlement over the atavistic worshiping of Lorimar which allowed the show to deteriorate). I agree that Duffy is a little too quick to please the hand that feeds him at any given moment, but again, I don't think we should hold actors to a different standard than any employee in any other industry. And again, would he need to bring any disagreements in common view? If not, how would we know?
 
Last edited:

tommie

Telly Talk Winner
Messages
3,568
Reaction score
1,885
Location
Sweden
Medals
1
Member Since
I dunno
I'm not sure why people expect Patrick to keep a track of everything - it's been pretty clear that his memory of original Dallas is often very fuzzy at best and he didn't exactly watch the show himself, especially not multiple times. Then you have the issue that they don't shoot scenes in the order they appear on the show, so things must be confusing at times to remember what happened when on the show as it is. I can also see why he'd enjoy doing nuDallas more than the original from a purely production point of view - doing 10-15 episodes per year is very different from the production line of work it takes to produce 22-30 episodes per year.
 

Frank Underwood

Telly Talk Star
Messages
2,641
Reaction score
555
Medals
3
Member Since
June 2001
I don't know what statement you refer to, unless it is the one where he says that the later years of Dallas were ones where they had lost perspective of what makes a good story. I don't think he's wrong about that (hence my puzzlement over the atavistic worshiping of Lorimar which allowed the show to deteriorate). I agree that Duffy is a little too quick to please the hand that feeds him at any given moment, but again, I don't think we should hold thee actors to a different standard than any employee in any other industry. And again, would he need to bring any disagreements in common view? If not, how would we know?
I'm referring to statements Duffy made in various articles and on various talks shows while TNT Dallas was on the air. I'm paraphrasing, but he said things like "this Dallas is as good as or better than most of original Dallas." Another time, a talk show host said something like "Dallas is bigger and better.... well, I don't want to say better." Duffy responded by saying "No, it is better!" Other times, he said Cidre's pilot script was the best Dallas script he'd ever read, he mocked the men on the original for being "swashbuckling" types, and so on.

Again, I don't expect an actor to bash their show in the press. But Duffy wasn't just being a good employee, he was being a brown noser.

Also, if I had information that would help my boss be better at his or her job, I would share it with them. If they declined to act on my input, obviously that would be their choice.

Lastly, I personally don't worship Dallas's later years. I never have, but Cidre's Dallas was a mess all its own. Larry and Linda never praised the new Dallas at the expense of the original.
 
Last edited:
Top