Soap Reruns

Carrie Fairchild

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Can anyone shed any light on the logistics behind certain British soaps getting repeat runs and others not? It's something that came into my mind after seeing Hollyoaks airing classic episodes as a result of reduced output. To my knowledge, Hollyoaks has only had repeat episodes aired once on the now defunct Trouble channel back in the late 90's or early 00's. Similarly Brookside was last repeated nearly 20 years ago. On the other hand, Coronation Street, Emmerdale and EastEnders are currently on their second or third repeat runs while other shows like Crossroads, Families, Eldorado and High Road have all had repeats in the past.

I know rights issues and residuals for actors have been mentioned as potential blocks but presumably this would be as much an issue for Emmerdale as it would be for Brookside. The only one that I can think of that has an obvious block is Night and Day because it was so heavily soundtracked that the music rights would probably cost a fortune.
 

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I know rights issues and residuals for actors have been mentioned as potential blocks but presumably this would be as much an issue for Emmerdale as it would be for Brookside.
I wonder if things are made easier by the overall rights to Emmerdale being now held by ITV. Whereas the rights to Brookside, I presume, are held by Lime Pictures/All3Media after they bought out Mersey Television.

I know some of the Emmerdale actors were waiting to see what the residuals would be like for the recent rerun so it doesn't seem to be a clear cut thing.

Wasn't Crossroads set for a rerun recently until it was discovered that the rights would be too expensive for the small channel that intended to air it?
 
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Carrie Fairchild

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I wonder if things are made easier by the overall rights to Emmerdale being now held by ITV. Whereas the rights to Brookside, I presume, are held by Lime Pictures/All3Media after they bought out Mersey Television.

I know some of the Emmerdale actors were waiting to see what the residuals would be like for the recent rerun so it doesn't seem to be a clear cut thing.

Wasn't Crossroads set for a rerun recently until it was discovered that the rights would be too expensive for the small channel that intended to air it?
That was on Big Centre TV in Birmingham a few years ago. Paul Henry (Benny) threatened legal action over royalties. The show made it to air, for a while at least, but I don't think the channel exists anymore. I know the cast (Henry included) were happy enough with the UK Gold rerun in the 90's and even filmed inserts to promote the launch, so I'm presuming the residual payments for that first run were different.
 

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I have often wondered about residuals for shows like this. Does anyone have any idea how that is worked out? Like would all actors get the same flat rate of payment? Would it only be the main cast or would every actor on screen get a payment? Although a different kettle of fish, I remember reading that the cast of DYNASTY were encouraged to sign contracts where they would give up their residual rights for a lump sum payment instead as they thought that soaps wouldn't repeat well or something like that. Although I am sure DYNASTY was repeated all over the world many times.

Are all contracts different also. Look at how many times Prisoner Cell Block H has been re-run. I know those are international shows but I've just always wondered what residual payments may be?
 

tommie

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I dunno
Are all contracts different also. Look at how many times Prisoner Cell Block H has been re-run. I know those are international shows but I've just always wondered what residual payments may be?
I think it also depends on when contracts were signed - I seem to recall that pre-1980-something people don't actually get any residuals due to contracts at the time. I'm guessing after successful runs of stuff like I Love Lucy in syndication that the actors' unions became more vigilant about making sure that the actors/actresses earn money from a tv series afterlife.
 

Carrie Fairchild

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I have often wondered about residuals for shows like this. Does anyone have any idea how that is worked out? Like would all actors get the same flat rate of payment? Would it only be the main cast or would every actor on screen get a payment? Although a different kettle of fish, I remember reading that the cast of DYNASTY were encouraged to sign contracts where they would give up their residual rights for a lump sum payment instead as they thought that soaps wouldn't repeat well or something like that. Although I am sure DYNASTY was repeated all over the world many times.

Are all contracts different also. Look at how many times Prisoner Cell Block H has been re-run. I know those are international shows but I've just always wondered what residual payments may be?
There's an interesting report here about residuals for the Aussie soaps. Paula Duncan makes a good point about how were they to know that cable channels & DVD would become a thing when those contracts were signed. Particularly those actors from series in the 60's & 70's when tape wiping was common practice.


This report suggested that Crossroads actors might have gotten as little as £1.25 per episode for the Big Centre TV reruns.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/big-centre-tv-launch-marred-8743646
 

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There's an interesting report here about residuals for the Aussie soaps. Paula Duncan makes a good point about how were they to know that cable channels & DVD would become a thing when those contracts were signed. Particularly those actors from series in the 60's & 70's when tape wiping was common practice.
Val Lehman crossed out the clause in her original Prisoner contract that would have had her sign away her right to future developments. She is the only actor from the show to receive royalties from DVD sales. She claims that this has made her unpopular (or even more so) among the cast even though she says she advised them to do the same at the time. It's believed that she was not pleased that Fremantle allowed the DVDrips to stay up on YouTube for years.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ente...n/news-story/ab2cc2fd47b3e24e7541f3ea5a1fd8aa
 

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Hollyoaks also has been having some former cast members introduce the repeats. Jorgie Porter, who is supposed to be making a return this year. Jasmine Franks (Esther), Bronagh Waugh (Cheryl Brady), Matt Littler, who played the late Max Cunningham, who was fatally hit by a car and did not survive his wedding day. Gemma Bissix who had played the late scheming Clare Devine/Clare Cunningham, who after surviving previous apparent deaths was finally run over. It has been fun rewatching serial killer Silas murder serial killer Lindsey. And serial killer Silas accidentally murdering his own daughter Heidi, when he really meant to murder the identically dressed Lynsey. And Cheryl Brady murder her father Seamus after finding out via a video from Walker (who had just been killed when Brendan kicked him in front of an oncoming train) that Seamus was sexually abusing her half-brother Brendan, who had murdered their grandmother. And it has been delightful seeing a couple of characters losing their lives in the train crash and three of the four deaths that occurred when the minibus crashed into the double wedding. And evil but pretty psycho bully Maddie Morrison leaving her friend Neil to die in the minibus explosion, only to be hilariously killed moments later by the flying minibus door.

With Hollyoaks, they were only allowed to repeat episodes from 2012 onwards but that has now changed. And they started showing older episodes, showcasing Clare Devine trying to murder her husband, Max Cunningham, for his insurance by emptying his heart medication out of the capsules. And Clare kidnapping Katy Fox. Noticeably some episodes have aired with slightly different opening title sequences and the sound of O.B. punching Clare in the face was removed, when he caught her trying to drown Max.
 
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cobbles

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What I find really odd is the refusal to show the shows from the very beginning or upload them from the very beginning. There's 16 years of Coronation Street that hasn't seen the light of day since the 60s and early 70s yet the Granada runs first time out started in 1976 and second time out started in 1986. It would be so nice to see a Corrie re-run on ITV3 or an upload to Britbox or another streaming service that goes right back to 1960.
 

Carrie Fairchild

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What I find really odd is the refusal to show the shows from the very beginning or upload them from the very beginning. There's 16 years of Coronation Street that hasn't seen the light of day since the 60s and early 70s yet the Granada runs first time out started in 1976 and second time out started in 1986. It would be so nice to see a Corrie re-run on ITV3 or an upload to Britbox or another streaming service that goes right back to 1960.
Was there a policy of tape wiping or are all episodes between 1960 - 1976 still intact?
 

cobbles

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Was there a policy of tape wiping or are all episodes between 1960 - 1976 still intact?
As far as I'm aware they were never wiped. There was an article a few years ago where they said every episode going back to the start had been digitised.

This isn't a Doctor Who situation. I understand they won't all be 100% peak condition but it'd be good for them to get a trip out.

I think the reason they aren't re-ran is the B&W nature, ITV3 seem reluctantly to show B&W shows.
 
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Alexis

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As far as I'm aware they were never wiped. There was an article a few years ago where they said every episode going back to the start had been digitised.

This isn't a Doctor Who situation. I understand they won't all be 100% peak condition but it'd be good for them to get a trip out.

I think the reason they aren't re-ran is the B&W nature, ITV3 seem reluctantly to show B&W shows.
It's sad that could possibly be the reason why they aren't shown. As if people couldn't possibly watch anything in black and white.
 

cobbles

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It's sad that could possibly be the reason why they aren't shown. As if people couldn't possibly watch anything in black and white.
Sad but not inconceivable. My only hope is that Britbox start piling them onto their service. They've got 32 episodes from the entire history of the show up, but it would be so much nicer to see a much much bigger selection (naturally all), I'm not sure they even listen to customer request but I've put in an email asking if they're considering only to get told 'we'd love to do it but it depends on licensing' and to be made aware the social media/email reader fella (it's a fella that's not me presuming) at Britbox is a huge corrie fan.

I suppose another potential hurdle might be 'residuals' as discussed above - unlike in Aus they're a mandatory for UK based repeats and showings. -

It appears as though any episodes made prior to the 31/12/1969 would now be out of copyright though - so that might mean residuals aren't payable. That's twenty years worth of the show that could theoretical just be put up if it were available by anyone - the issue being that no-one has most of it as ITV hold it.

In the case of a broadcast made after the commencement of the 1956 Act, the copyright in a broadcast programme expires 50 years from the end of the year in which it is broadcast: section 14(2), Copyright Act 1956. Repeating such a broadcast does not extend the period of copyright, whether the repeat is during or after the 50 year copyright period: section 14(3), Copyright Act 1956.
However other elements of the show - (or depending on the classification of 'drama' the entire show) such as music, scripts etc etc may fall under the much trickier copyright term of.....

Accordingly, copyright in literary, dramatic, musical and artistic works currently expires 70 years from the end of the calendar year of the author's death. Where the work has more than one author, the copyright expires 70 years after the death of the last survivor of them.
That would certainly make things more difficult but surely not impossible. It would just need someone willing to sit down and do due diligence. Naturally I'd prefer these to go up in a streaming service so they can remain 100% uncut and not have to apply with sometimes over-zealous daytime TV regulations.

I'd also expect there'd be a pretty big minority of people who would watch most of them - I'm not sure what Classic Corrie repeats get on ITV3 at the minute but I'm sure you'd get a similar number if you went right from the start rather than showed the mid-90s.

If they are out of copyright I wonder how that leaves the physical process of obtaining them from ITV - would a third party service even need to buy them? I guess they would if they couldn't get them anywhere else, but if they're in a different ownership (some episodes are a BFI and some at an archive of some description other than BFI) then presumably they'd be free to pick up?
 
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cobbles

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Assuming rights holders were willing this is how easy it would be to put something together for cable channels....

This is how easy it would be to put something together that would have relatively broad appeal if you had enough capital and rights holders were willing. All shows from start obviously.

Monday - Friday Weekday
07.00 Emmerdale Farm
07.30 Emmerdale Farm
08.00 Coronation Street
08.30 Coronation Street
09.00 EastEnders
09.40 EastEnders
10.20 Doctors
11.00 Brookside
11.30 Brookside
12.00 Waterloo Road
13.00 Casualty
14.00 Holby City
15.00 Emmerdale Farm
15.30 Emmerdale Farm
16.00 Coronation Street
16.30 Coronation Street
17.00 EastEnders
17.40 EastEnders
18.20 Doctors
19.00 Brookside
19.30 Brookside
20.00 The Bill
21.00 (US Soaps - Sunset Beach / Dallas / Melrose Place etc etc)
22.00 (US Soaps - Sunset Beach / Dallas / Melrose Place etc etc)
23.30 Hollyoaks
And then at the weekend you could show omnibuses of the weekday content.
 

Carrie Fairchild

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Assuming rights holders were willing this is how easy it would be to put something together for cable channels....

This is how easy it would be to put something together that would have relatively broad appeal if you had enough capital and rights holders were willing. All shows from start obviously.

Monday - Friday Weekday
07.00 Emmerdale Farm
07.30 Emmerdale Farm
08.00 Coronation Street
08.30 Coronation Street
09.00 EastEnders
09.40 EastEnders
10.20 Doctors
11.00 Brookside
11.30 Brookside
12.00 Waterloo Road
13.00 Casualty
14.00 Holby City
15.00 Emmerdale Farm
15.30 Emmerdale Farm
16.00 Coronation Street
16.30 Coronation Street
17.00 EastEnders
17.40 EastEnders
18.20 Doctors
19.00 Brookside
19.30 Brookside
20.00 The Bill
21.00 (US Soaps - Sunset Beach / Dallas / Melrose Place etc etc)
22.00 (US Soaps - Sunset Beach / Dallas / Melrose Place etc etc)
23.30 Hollyoaks
And then at the weekend you could show omnibuses of the weekday content.
This is kind of like a merging of the UK Gold and Granada Plus lineups of the 90's. Unfortunately, we haven't had a channel with a lineup as soapy since then. CBS Drama probably came the closest but it's focus was the US soaps.
 

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This is kind of like a merging of the UK Gold and Granada Plus lineups of the 90's. Unfortunately, we haven't had a channel with a lineup as soapy since then. CBS Drama probably came the closest but it's focus was the US soaps.
I am sure UK Gold was doing a similar thing around 2006 maybe? or 2007? I remember catching good chunks of the first half of Dallas's seasons around that time on my days off or if I finished early. And possibly Dynasty.

I would really love a dedicated Soap channel. I was too young really to appreciate Sky Soap in the 1990s. I was always at school! And then after school my choice to watch Days Of Our Lives or another similar show or classic Emmerdale Farm just didn't stand a chance. :giggle:

Like somewhere to show American daytime soaps from a certain point in their run, like '80s or '90s where they have most or all the episodes from. Classic Aussie shows like Sons & Daughters, Prisoner Cell Block H and early Neighbours and Home and Away. And then of course all the US prime time soaps actually shown in prime time. And some classic Corrie and EastEnders etc chucked in too for good measure.
 

Alexis

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Assuming rights holders were willing this is how easy it would be to put something together for cable channels....

This is how easy it would be to put something together that would have relatively broad appeal if you had enough capital and rights holders were willing. All shows from start obviously.

Monday - Friday Weekday
07.00 Emmerdale Farm
07.30 Emmerdale Farm
08.00 Coronation Street
08.30 Coronation Street
09.00 EastEnders
09.40 EastEnders
10.20 Doctors
11.00 Brookside
11.30 Brookside
12.00 Waterloo Road
13.00 Casualty
14.00 Holby City
15.00 Emmerdale Farm
15.30 Emmerdale Farm
16.00 Coronation Street
16.30 Coronation Street
17.00 EastEnders
17.40 EastEnders
18.20 Doctors
19.00 Brookside
19.30 Brookside
20.00 The Bill
21.00 (US Soaps - Sunset Beach / Dallas / Melrose Place etc etc)
22.00 (US Soaps - Sunset Beach / Dallas / Melrose Place etc etc)
23.30 Hollyoaks
And then at the weekend you could show omnibuses of the weekday content.
I would like this with a bit more US content, a few more US daytime soaps, and some Aussie shows later.
 

cobbles

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I honestly think a stream
I would like this with a bit more US content, a few more US daytime soaps, and some Aussie shows later.
I honestly think some sort of soap box that just throws all the episodes up to watch would be the best solution.

But I guess unless it's a passion project for Amazon Prime or another similarly massive company, it would require a serious amount of financial risk to be undertaken to come to fruition and a hell of a lot of rights clearances (not just actors - 60s Corrie appears to be out of copyright) but musical rights as well.
 

Alexis

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This would roughly be my ideal kind of line up. All shows shown from the beginning or as close to as possible. All shows airing one episode daily, with selected shows having a repeat of the same episode at a later time. The prime time slot between 9 and 11pm to be filled with only US prime time shows run in their entirety and then rotated. The early morning schedule mostly filled with US daytime shows, with a selected couple getting an afternoon repeat also. Daytime shows could be any of the long running shows. I have just added some that I would like to see or are familiar with. Entire weekend line up made up of omnibus editions of each show. Also I am aware that the runtimes are likely not accurate due to episode length and ads but it's a rough idea.
Monday - Friday Weekday
07.00 The Bold & The Beautiful
07.30 The Young & The Restless
08.30 Days Of Our Lives
09.30 Santa Barbara
10.30 Sunset Beach
11.30 Sons & Daughters
12.00 EastEnders
12.30 Coronation Street
13.00 Emmerdale Farm
13.30 Neighbours
14.00 Home and Away
14.30 Brookside
15.00 Crossroads
15.30 The Bold & The Beautiful
16.00 The Young & The Restless
17.00 EastEnders
17.30 Coronation Street
18.00 Emmerdale Farm
18.30 Brookside
19.00 Hollyoaks
19.30 Neighbours
20.00 Home and Away
20.30 Crossroads
21.00 (US 80s Prime Time Soaps - Dallas /Dynasty/Knots Landing/The Colbys/Falcon Crest/Paper Dolls/Flamingo Road etc etc)
22.00 (US 90s/00s Prime Time Soaps - Melrose Place/90210/CPW/Savannah/Titans/Desperate Housewives/Brothers & Sisters/The OC etc etc)
23.30 Prisoner Cell Block H
 

Carrie Fairchild

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I am sure UK Gold was doing a similar thing around 2006 maybe? or 2007? I remember catching good chunks of the first half of Dallas's seasons around that time on my days off or if I finished early. And possibly Dynasty.
I remember when we first got Sky in the early 00's, UK Gold 2 was showing the final seasons of Knots Landing while Eldorado was being run in the middle of the night. I still think the 90's was the "imperial phase" of soap reruns where between Sky One, Lifestyle, Living, Sky Soap, UK Gold and Granada Plus, you could start watching soaps at 7:30am and continue uninterrupted for 12 hours straight if you wished. There were so many to choose from.
 
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