The end of season 10 (dvd)

Grangehill1

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Just picking up on a similar thread posted a few days ago. The end of season 10 - there really was too much change wasn’t there? We lost Donna, we lost Pam. We lost Ewing Oil! And that was something I’d never thought of before. And I remembered watching 1st time round 30 years ago and hating the fact Ewing Oil has gone. And I hated the new buildings and the new offices.

What other show featured exterior shots of buildings like Dallas? The Oil Barons, Barnes Wentworth - the
Buildings were characters in their own right.

So to write out Ewing Oil and not see the building again - were these losses as big as losing Donna and Pam?
 

Kenny Coyote

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Just picking up on a similar thread posted a few days ago. The end of season 10 - there really was too much change wasn’t there? We lost Donna, we lost Pam. We lost Ewing Oil! And that was something I’d never thought of before. And I remembered watching 1st time round 30 years ago and hating the fact Ewing Oil has gone. And I hated the new buildings and the new offices.

What other show featured exterior shots of buildings like Dallas? The Oil Barons, Barnes Wentworth - the
Buildings were characters in their own right.

So to write out Ewing Oil and not see the building again - were these losses as big as losing Donna and Pam?
To me, Ewing Oil and Southfork are both like characters in the show. There were more big storylines that revolved around Ewing Oil than there were storylines about Donna. It was the source of the motivation for JR and Bobby to be so competitive with each other and it was the thing Cliff wanted to destroy so when Ewing Oil died, a lot of the Barnes-Ewing feud died. They didn't even have the Barnes-Ewing feud the nest season - it stopped and Cliff became Bobby's friend which took a lot of the interesting part of the show away.
 
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Snarky's Ghost

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To me, Ewing Oil and Southfork are both like characters in the show. There were more big storylines that revolved around Ewing Oil than there were storylines about Donna. It was the source of the motivation for JR and Bobby to be so competitive with each other and it was the thing Cliff wanted to destroy so when Ewing Oil died, a lot of the Barnes-Ewing feud died. They didn't even have the Barnes-Ewing feud the nest season - it stopped and Cliff became Bobby's friend which took a lot of the interesting part of the show away.
The problems with the storylines from the later seasons were not about Ewing winning or losing. All the plotlines lacked credible detail, which is why they didn't work.
 

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Just picking up on a similar thread posted a few days ago. The end of season 10 - there really was too much change wasn’t there? We lost Donna, we lost Pam. We lost Ewing Oil! And that was something I’d never thought of before. And I remembered watching 1st time round 30 years ago and hating the fact Ewing Oil has gone. And I hated the new buildings and the new offices.

What other show featured exterior shots of buildings like Dallas? The Oil Barons, Barnes Wentworth - the
Buildings were characters in their own right.
To be honest, Katzman did a lot of cut and paste from "Dallas" itself for establishing shots in his next show "Walker Texas Ranger", he even re-used the Ewing Oil explosion! How very Spelling from him!!
 

Rove

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I find it interesting how an institution becomes a character itself. Dallas wasn't just about the Ewing and Barnes family, it was much more than that. We were also talking about Southfork and Ewing Oil. It shows Dallas had become deeper than watching characters quibble over lost millions.
So to write out Ewing Oil and not see the building again - were these losses as big as losing Donna and Pam?
Some might argue the loss of Ewing Oil was no big deal but it was part of the whole. And with the loss of Ewing Oil what was the point?
 

lbf522

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And gradually making JR a whipping boy, being beaten at every turn.

Swami


Yes. JR losing to any Tom, Dick and Harry was hard to watch. The Hayleyville storyline was among the worst that I have ever seen. The old JR would not have allowed any of them to get away with that.
 

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Yes. JR losing to any Tom, Dick and Harry was hard to watch. The Hayleyville storyline was among the worst that I have ever seen. The old JR would not have allowed any of them to get away with that.
The sad thing is people like JR do win in business. For some reason, the writers refused to acknowledge that fact. At the end JR could have done everything he did, dream of a world without him, contemplate suicide, even fire the gun over loosing the people he loved, but not over loosing EO. He would have left behind a fortune, leaving John Ross everything he promised him, probably some to his son with Calley too and probably something to Sue Ellen. Men like that win in business and loose in life, not both.
 

Swami

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Yes. JR losing to any Tom, Dick and Harry was hard to watch. The Hayleyville storyline was among the worst that I have ever seen. The old JR would not have allowed any of them to get away with that.
And after that, JR admitting himself into the sanitarium. That in tandem with the awful newbies was hard to watch.

Swami
 

Kenny Coyote

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The sad thing is people like JR do win in business. For some reason, the writers refused to acknowledge that fact. At the end JR could have done everything he did, dream of a world without him, contemplate suicide, even fire the gun over loosing the people he loved, but not over loosing EO. He would have left behind a fortune, leaving John Ross everything he promised him, probably some to his son with Calley too and probably something to Sue Ellen. Men like that win in business and loose in life, not both.
People like JR succeed in business because they're highly competent. It reminds me of a line from the later days in the show when a man told Carter McKay: "Men like you don't end up in the unemployment line, do they"? McKay laughed a little and agreed: "Not exactly."

Men like them rise to the top of their profession because they all have the qualities necessary for success - ambition, tremendous work ethic, intelligence, aptitude for their profession, and they love what they do. JR would have been a success even without all the underhanded tactics he used. JR could have grown up in a poor family and he'd still ended up with money. Maybe he would have opened up a used car lot, but after a while he'd have owned a dozen of them. Along with the other attributes I mentioned, JR had a gift for dealing with people. @Piggy It's Kermit Outside, there's a term, or expression in Spanish that describes that gift - maybe you can help me out with this. I think it 's spelled "don de gente." Literally, it means "the gift of people" but that doesn't really explain the full meaning of it. Are you familiar with this term? I don't think we have a term in English that means exactly the same thing, but I'm not sure. Is there an English equivalent for "don de gente"?

You can see a great example of that when JR is talking to a man who has spent his life working in the federal government. I forget the guy's name. Was it "McIntyre"? Anyway, JR asks him about taking a visit to the Caribbean and McIntyre suggests various islands JR might like to visit. Then JR gets around to bringing up Cuba, and the guy is really surprised. I think he says: "A dyed-in-the-wool capitalist like you, visiting Cuba"? JR goes on to explain why he thinks visiting Cuba would be a good idea, and how it could be beneficial for the country as a whole. This scene demonstrates that gift that JR has of charming people, making them feel at ease, and then getting around to convincing them his idea is a good one and persuading them to help with the plan he has in mind.
 
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stevew

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People like JR succeed in business because they're highly competent. It reminds me of a line from the later days in the show when a man told Carter McKay: "Men like you don't end up in the unemployment line, do they"? McKay laughed a little and agreed: "Not exactly."

Men like them rise to the top of their profession because they all have the qualities necessary for success - ambition, tremendous work ethic, intelligence, aptitude for their profession, and they love what they do. JR would have been a success even without all the underhanded tactics he used. JR could have grown up in a poor family and he'd still ended up with money. Maybe he would have opened up a used car lot, but after a while he'd have owned a dozen of them. Along with the other attributes I mentioned, JR had a gift for dealing with people. @Piggy It's Kermit Outside, there's a term, or expression in Spanish that describes that gift - maybe you can help me out with this. I think it 's spelled "don de gente." Literally, it means "the gift of people" but that doesn't really explain the full meaning of it. Are you familiar with this term? I don't think we have a term in English that means exactly the same thing, but I'm not sure. Is there an English equivalent for "don de gente"?

You can see a great example of that when JR is talking to a man who has spent his life working in the federal government. I forget the guy's name. Was it "McIntyre"? Anyway, JR asks him about taking a visit to the Caribbean and McIntyre suggests various islands JR might like to visit. Then JR gets around to bringing up Cuba, and the guy is really surprised. I think he says: "A dyed-in-the-wool capitalist like you, visiting Cuba"? JR goes on to explain why he thinks visiting Cuba would be a good idea, and how it could be beneficial for the country as a whole. This scene demonstrates that gift that JR has of charming people, making them feel at ease, and then getting around to convincing them his idea is a good one and persuading them to help with the plan he has in mind.
Add to it that morality wasn’t an issue for JR and he was bound to stay on top, at least professionally.
 

Kenny Coyote

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Add to it that morality wasn’t an issue for JR and he was bound to stay on top, at least professionally.
I see a disregard for morality as something that may help short term, but long term it's more likely to hinder one's progress than help it. If a guy gets a reputation for screwing over the people he does business with, it gets to a point where nobody wants to do business with him anymore. One thing Bobby always had in his favor when competing with JR was that people trusted Bobby. People believed Bobby's word was good, that he had integrity, and because of that they wanted to do business with Bobby. That ultimately won him the contest for Ewing Oil. Bobby didn't win the contest for Ewing Oil through having greater expertise in the business that JR did; he won the contest because, as JR put it, there was "an army of people mobilizing" against him. When a guy builds enough ill-will among his peers, they'll do that to him.
 

stevew

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I see a disregard for morality as something that may help short term, but long term it's more likely to hinder one's progress than help it. If a guy gets a reputation for screwing over the people he does business with, it gets to a point where nobody wants to do business with him anymore. One thing Bobby always had in his favor when competing with JR was that people trusted Bobby. People believed Bobby's word was good, that he had integrity, and because of that they wanted to do business with Bobby. That ultimately won him the contest for Ewing Oil. Bobby didn't win the contest for Ewing Oil through having greater expertise in the business that JR did; he won the contest because, as JR put it, there was "an army of people mobilizing" against him. When a guy builds enough ill-will among his peers, they'll do that to him.
That is one thing Dallas was missing with JR, that he would have had people he worked with just as lacking moral breaks. Those people alone would have prospered, those seem as working with JR while the others would have suffered, looking at oil men like Hunt and Getty and Rockefeller. “Their” people benefited and the rest got screwed, yet they went right along with them. That’s one thing I like about Dallas TNT, with DelSol and Bum it appeared that maybe JR did have success a network, just one kept hidden from his day to day work, maybe there were others. No networks are thicker than those of thieves.
 

stevew

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That is one thing Dallas was missing with JR, that he would have had people he worked with just as lacking moral breaks. Those people alone would have prospered, those seem as working with JR while the others would have suffered, looking at oil men like Hunt and Getty and Rockefeller. “Their” people benefited and the rest got screwed, yet they went right along with them. That’s one thing I like about Dallas TNT, with DelSol and Bum it appeared that maybe JR did have success a network, just one kept hidden from his day to day work, maybe there were others. No networks are thicker than those of thieves.
Here’s an example (albeit conspiracy theory) of H L Hunt and his friends working together:

Madeleine Duncan Brown, an advertising executive who previously claimed to have had an extended love affair and a son with President Lyndon B. Johnson, said that she was present at a party at the Dallas home of Clint Murchison Sr. on the evening prior to the assassination of John F. Kennedy that was attended by Johnson as well as other famous, wealthy, and powerful individuals including Hunt, Murchison, J. Edgar Hoover, and Richard Nixon. According to Brown, Johnson had a meeting with several of the men after which he told her: "After tomorrow, those goddamn Kennedys will never embarrass me again. That's no threat. That's a promise." Brown's story received national attention and became part of at least a dozen John F. Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories.

Obvious crap but makes for interesting fiction.
 
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Toni

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People like JR succeed in business because they're highly competent. It reminds me of a line from the later days in the show when a man told Carter McKay: "Men like you don't end up in the unemployment line, do they"? McKay laughed a little and agreed: "Not exactly."

Men like them rise to the top of their profession because they all have the qualities necessary for success - ambition, tremendous work ethic, intelligence, aptitude for their profession, and they love what they do. JR would have been a success even without all the underhanded tactics he used. JR could have grown up in a poor family and he'd still ended up with money. Maybe he would have opened up a used car lot, but after a while he'd have owned a dozen of them. Along with the other attributes I mentioned, JR had a gift for dealing with people. @Piggy It's Kermit Outside, there's a term, or expression in Spanish that describes that gift - maybe you can help me out with this. I think it 's spelled "don de gente." Literally, it means "the gift of people" but that doesn't really explain the full meaning of it. Are you familiar with this term? I don't think we have a term in English that means exactly the same thing, but I'm not sure. Is there an English equivalent for "don de gente"?

You can see a great example of that when JR is talking to a man who has spent his life working in the federal government. I forget the guy's name. Was it "McIntyre"? Anyway, JR asks him about taking a visit to the Caribbean and McIntyre suggests various islands JR might like to visit. Then JR gets around to bringing up Cuba, and the guy is really surprised. I think he says: "A dyed-in-the-wool capitalist like you, visiting Cuba"? JR goes on to explain why he thinks visiting Cuba would be a good idea, and how it could be beneficial for the country as a whole. This scene demonstrates that gift that JR has of charming people, making them feel at ease, and then getting around to convincing them his idea is a good one and persuading them to help with the plan he has in mind.
@Kenny Coyote, sure I´m familiar with that term, it´s very usual (thanks for thinking about moi!). "Don de gentes" is what one has when you can deal with any kind of person on a daily basis, no matter who or what for.

I´m not sure if J.R. actually got it because there was a lot of people out there who saw him coming...He indeed used his own kind of empathy to guess what the other person could need (desperately, most times). Not sure if someone with "don de gentes" would do that, though...It implies a positive, heartwarming feeling that J.R. not always could transmit.

Here is the translation of "don de gentes" upon Joan Collins´ Dictionary (lol):

Principal Translations
Spanish English
don de gentes loc nom m (trato, socialización) people skills npl
people person n

So, would you consider J.R. someone who likes socializing naturally, with no effort, or rather a great pretender who was always scheming to find out what everyone’s weakness is? IMHO, Bobby was the one with "don de gentes"...and many more and obvious charms...

upload_2019-12-29_21-59-33.jpeg
 

Kenny Coyote

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@Kenny Coyote, sure I´m familiar with that term, it´s very usual (thanks for thinking about moi!). "Don de gentes" is what one has when you can deal with any kind of person on a daily basis, no matter who or what for.

I´m not sure if J.R. actually got it because there was a lot of people out there who saw him coming...He indeed used his own kind of empathy to guess what the other person could need (desperately, most times). Not sure if someone with "don de gentes" would do that, though...It implies a positive, heartwarming feeling that J.R. not always could transmit.

Here is the translation of "don de gentes" upon Joan Collins´ Dictionary (lol):

Principal Translations
Spanish English
don de gentes loc nom m (trato, socialización) people skills npl
people person n

So, would you consider J.R. someone who likes socializing naturally, with no effort, or rather a great pretender who was always scheming to find out what everyone’s weakness is? IMHO, Bobby was the one with "don de gentes"...and many more and obvious charms...

Hmm, this is interesting, because the way I know the expression and the way you've described it are similar but not exactly the same. The way you're describing it - the positive, heartwarming way, I would say no, that doesn't describe JR.

JR had people skills and could put people at ease and make them feel comfortable which is the way I always understood "don de gentes" but the way you describe it, adding the "positive heartwarming feeling" to it adds an element that does not describe JR so well.

Thank you @Piggy It's Kermit Outside!
 
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