The timescale of Katzman and Duffy returning to the show

[Grangehill1]

It would be fascinating to know at what point in 1986 did Leonard and Patrick know they were coming back? And how quickly was it from initial confirmation to filming the shower scene?

As i’ve often said I think the shower scene was the real problem. It sounds as if Katzman said let’s make it all a dream and then they shot the shower scene and then planned out the next series.

What should have happened was for them to have held back Patrick’s return to season 10 and then spend time developing how to bring him back in a realistic way. But they essentially gave themselves no options by shooting the shower scene and hurriedly adding it onto the end of season 9

 

[Sarah]

Dallas receives so much criticism for the dream, but other soaps have brought characters back from the dead many years later as you suggest they did with Patrick. One example is EastEnders who famously said ‘We didn’t want to do a Dallas’ but then brought Den and Kathy back something like 14 years later. I don’t watch that show but was it accepted because of the timeline?

 

[Grangehill1]

Dallas receives so much criticism for the dream, but other soaps have brought characters back from the dead many years later as you suggest they did with Patrick. One example is EastEnders who famously said ‘We didn’t want to do a Dallas’ but then brought Den and Kathy back something like 14 years later. I don’t watch that show but was it accepted because of the timeline?

Timeline had nothing to do with it. It was generally accepted yes. Much much more than Dallas

 

[Billy Wall]

Daytime soaps have brought characters back from the dead many times. But Bobby died on screen and they had his funeral. No way they could bring him back traditionally. Then you had Knots Landing who acknowledged his death. What it boils down to is that producers had no business listening to Duffy and killing Bobby off.

 

[Alexis Colby Carrington]

They should never have killed him off. The dream season killed Dallas. If they had to have him dead, he should have stayed dead. Well done Knots Landing for keeping him dead!

 

[Sarah]

See I don’t think it did kill the show. For me that came when Linda left (the loss of Sue Ellen changed JR completely and not in a good way, which then affected the show) and as well as that the loss of BBG, Victoria, Susan and the break up of really important relationships - which led to the introduction of characters I really didn’t care about at all. Like I honestly couldn’t give a crap about The Horror of the Beaumonts, the scheming of the McKays (I realise Carter was around a bit sooner), or the mishaps of Johnny Dancer. None of this was Dallas, and I don’t believe that is ever what Dallas was intended to be.

 

[Grangehill1]

See I don’t think it did kill the show. For me that came when Linda left (the loss of Sue Ellen changed JR completely and not in a good way, which then affected the show) and as well as that the loss of BBG, Victoria, Susan and the break up of really important relationships - which led to the introduction of characters I really didn’t care about at all. Like I honestly couldn’t give a crap about The Horror of the Beaumonts, the scheming of the McKays (I realise Carter was around a bit sooner), or the mishaps of Johnny Dancer. None of this was Dallas, and I don’t believe that is ever what Dallas was intended to be.

But to viewers it did kill the show. I think the audience would have accepted any far fetched storyline except the dream scenario.

 

[Sarah]

But to viewers it did kill the show. I think the audience would have accepted any far fetched storyline except the dream scenario.

No. Not to ALL viewers, it didn’t. You can’t put the entire Dallas audience into that bracket.

Sure I was unhappy that certain things hadn’t happened. Maybe it’s an age thing too as I was only 10, but I was upset JR and Sue Ellen hadn’t reconciled. But I love Dallas so I went with it.

Dallas has millions of fans, and yes it affected things but without interviewing every single one of them, you can’t say it was all the viewers.

 

[Barbara Fan]

They should never have killed him off. The dream season killed Dallas. If they had to have him dead, he should have stayed dead. Well done Knots Landing for keeping him dead!

I have to be honest - loved Pat D back in the day bit would rather have had BBG back and I enjoyed so much of the dream season and even then you could whizz thro the VHS tape to avoid Ms Nero and co
Most people I know who were casual fans of Dallas switched off the following season and felt rather cheated by the dream season and its resolution witb Bobby in the shower . It was just a dream! And a few friends commented that it was an "insult" to their intelligence - If you were a dallas fan and took it seriously you stuck with it - but the dream was a jump the shark moment for Dallas, the first being fake Ellie.
Victoria aka Pam dying in the car crash was for me the biggest serious loss to the show and I think most of my friends definitley tuned out when Mummified Pam appeared in Dallas Memorial
Suddenly i had no one to chat Dallas with anymore!

 

[Ukdallasfan]

The dream idea sucked. Everything changed after what was an entertaining season. Yes, the Angelica storyline was far fetched but the rest of that season was good. Donna and Ray had a powerful story centred around their unborn child and there was lots more besides. For me, as a JR and Sue Ellen couple fan, I loved Sue Ellen’s progress in this season as fundraiser for the Graison Foundation and then how it attracted JR back to her. All that was then eradicated by the infamous shower scene. With good writing and an excellent remaining cast, Dallas could have survived and thrived without Bobby. I’m with Susan Howard who said that the dream idea simply didn’t gel with the audience. Great pity that they ever went down that route

 

[Alexis Colby Carrington]

I have to be honest - loved Pat D back in the day bit would rather have had BBG back and I enjoyed so much of the dream season and even then you could whizz thro the VHS tape to avoid Ms Nero and co
Most people I know who were casual fans of Dallas switched off the following season and felt rather cheated by the dream season and its resolution witb Bobby in the shower . It was just a dream! And a few friends commented that it was an "insult" to their intelligence - If you were a dallas fan and took it seriously you stuck with it - but the dream was a jump the shark moment for Dallas, the first being fake Ellie.
Victoria aka Pam dying in the car crash was for me the biggest serious loss to the show and I think most of my friends definitley tuned out when Mummified Pam appeared in Dallas Memorial
Suddenly i had no one to chat Dallas with anymore!

See for me the serious loss was the shoddy way they got rid of Sue Ellen and that silly exit storyline with the tape. She was an original character and strong. I’d have much preferred Dusty to have come back for her and take her away to be happy.

 

[DallasFanForever]

The dream revelation did not kill the show for me, as I kept watching, but it definitely made me look at the show a lot differently from that point on. It really bothered me that I watched 31 episodes of a season that didn’t really happen. To me the dream scenario was just the first nail in the coffin. The loss of Pam, Sue Ellen and Donna only made everything worse. And it wasn’t just the fact that those characters were all gone but it’s also the way they were all written out that I didn’t like. Not to mention the quality of the storylines becoming much worse as well as the seasons progressed

 

[Grangehill1]

No. Not to ALL viewers, it didn’t. You can’t put the entire Dallas audience into that bracket.

Sure I was unhappy that certain things hadn’t happened. Maybe it’s an age thing too as I was only 10, but I was upset JR and Sue Ellen hadn’t reconciled. But I love Dallas so I went with it.

Dallas has millions of fans, and yes it affected things but without interviewing every single one of them, you can’t say it was all the viewers.

I didn’t. YOU said ‘ALL’ viewers. I said ‘viewers.’

By this point in the UK we’d already seen the miscasting of Donna Reed which was a major jump the shark in audience and critics’ eyes. But the true jump the shark moment for the ‘majority’ (which you honestly can’t deny) was the dream. The show lost viewers and critical approval. People couldn’t take it seriously any more. From public reaction at the time, to the years of discussion on the forum I’d say about 1 percent agree with the dream solution.

Around this time we’d had the ludicrous resolution to the Dynasty Moldavian massacre, Bobby coming back to life and then Fallon going off in a spaceship. All three instances damaged their respective shows. And viewers In the UK started switching off and switching on to EastEnders and Neighbours . More grounded soaps that people could relate to.

 

[Justine]

I know this doesn't answer the original question but this interview is kind of along the same theme/line:

My question is: How many times did Larry threaten to quit the show when he didn't get what he wanted?

I've read the story that he threatened to quit if Linda was fired/didn't direct - in my mind that was around the dream season too, or am I completely mistaken?

 

[pete lashmar]

It didn't kill the show off for me, but I never rewatch the dream season when re-watching the show.

If they'd had it as Bobby's dream, in a coma it would have worked perfectly and I'll never understand why they decided it worked better as Pam's dream..

For me, it was final 2 seasons that killed the show - far too many new characters, nasty characters and actors unable to act.

The loss of Victoria and then Linda was really felt and then to have no BBG was a tragedy.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

If they'd had it as Bobby's dream, in a coma it would have worked perfectly and I'll never understand why they decided it worked better as Pam's dream..

Always blame the woman.

 

[Jimmy Todd]

Always blame the woman.

Yup. Ever since Eve ate the apple

 

[Laurie!]

Always blame the woman.

The damned women!

I watched PD on an episode of ET recently and he actually referred to Bobby as "God"...saying, "they killed God"...lmao! I don't think he realizes what a jerk Bobby Ewing was a lot of the time. He also referred to one of the characters as a "tart"...which as a woman, I find that very offensive and sexist. Ugh!

He has such an over-inflated sense of self worth when it comes to DALLAS. It's also weird listening to him in interviews and he almost acts as though Victoria didn't exist. It was just the three Musketeers and he and Larry single-handedly made the show a success...like he always touts how the ratings fell when he left but then came way back up for the five years afterwards. I'm pretty sure the last season's of the show had lower ratings than the season he was gone (minus the first year he came back).

On a side-note, I think it's karma that his two screen wives made hundreds of millions of dollars on their own and he didn't.

 

[Rove]

and he and Larry single-handedly made the show a success

I'd argue one single character - JR - was the break out star of Dallas but from the outset this was an ensemble series centred around the characters of Jock, Miss Ellie, JR, Sue Ellen, Bobby, Pam, Lucy, Ray and Cliff. Each was more important than the other. I thought the demise of Jim Davis might have caused the first wobble for Dallas, it didn't. Instead it was the recast of Miss Ellie which created the first obstacle for Dallas and how important maintaining that core cast is.

The demise of Bobby could have offered Dallas a new lease of life. Their was the premise this was going to happen but then the silly nonsense of Angelica Nero was presented. And so we had the return of Patrick, the white knight returning to save Dallas from a ratings dip. Hang on. How were the producers going to resurrect a dead character; we watched Bobby flatline, witnessed his funeral, the true Miss Ellie shed a tear.

The producers answer? We don't give a flying rats arse about the viewers. Rumour has it Victoria has given notice so place we'll this absurd dream on her character. So Bobby spins. The Prince of Southfork has returned. But then Victoria leaves, followed by Susan, Barbara Bel and Linda. As this core group of actors/characters left so did the success of Dallas. Not one or two actors should pat themselves on the back for the success of the series. That initial success was due to the writing team for daring to bring untold stories to the small screen, presented by an ensemble cast which was electric as a whole.

 

[Laurie!]

He wasn't the prince Rove, he was "God".

I totally agree that it was an ensemble show but Patrick seemingly didn't get that and by the sounds of it, he was given way too much character input from the start...requesting Bobby to be more of a flawed character so he'd be interesting to portray. Which I suspect is when Victoria's role was minimized and as a result, we lost the real meat of the show. Which in my opinion was the dynamic between Pam and the scoundrel JR.

Imagine the season without Bobby and if we'd seen Pam battling JR at the office like she did when she was angry about JR sending her on that wild goose chase...or even like the first episode when she saw right through his plan to have Bobby find her in a compromising position with Ray...alas, we were left with the dreaded Angelica and Patrick's ego.