Times when you agreed with the villain.....

TJames03

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01. When Katherine hated Cliff because of him embezzling her father’s company and causing Rebecca’s death by her going in his place on the Wentworth jet (I agreed with her WTF? face when Pam was still defending Cliff to her).....

02. When JR was furious when Miss Ellie gave 1/2 of Southfork to Clayton. Totally wrong!!!!!!
 

tommie

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I dunno
02. When JR was furious when Miss Ellie gave 1/2 of Southfork to Clayton. Totally wrong!!!!!!
Yes, there never was a reason for Miss Ellie and Clayton to share such assets with each other - sure, having the same bank account is one thing, but putting Clayton's name on Southfork would've meant that half of it would potentially go to Dusty. Plus, Clayton was individually wealthy, so it wasn't like he wasn't going to have anywhere to stay if Ellie passed before him.

It worked out in the end, but in real life you see so many cases where even level-headed people get nasty when it comes to inheritence.
 

TJames03

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Miss Ellie was dead wrong. Even Bobby knew it, but didn't really say anything.......
 

tommie

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Miss Ellie was dead wrong. Even Bobby knew it, but didn't really say anything.......
I mean, if they at least had showed Clayton working properly at the ranch it would've made some sense. Still, even if Clayton hadn't been wealthy himself, Miss Ellie could've just put something in her will about him getting a fair share of money. Southfork was a family heirloom and there even being the slightest risk of Clayton's side making a power play for it should've been avoided.

But it was just the writers having old fashioned male mentality going on that Miss Ellie really couldn't have anything for herself.
 

Bill Dilks

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Naw...nothing to do with "writers mentality". Just another small conflict, this one built to include "Clayton" at odds with the family and some of us viewers.
 

Kenny Coyote

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I never saw JR as a villain. I see him as an antihero. I see Cliff as a villain who is trying to bring down the Ewings because he's jealous of what they have. Cliff doesn't want to admit jealousy is his motive so he says he's doing it for Digger but we all saw Digger say he never wanted to see the Ewings broke, or down and out, and Cliff didn't care what Digger had to say. Cliff just went right on saying "Well, they're gonna be flat broke..." Cliff never could admit to himself that Jock didn't destroy Digger and that Digger destroyed himself because he was a weak man.

Ellie would have known. She was right there at the time of the disagreement between Jock and Digger. Ellie cared a lot about Digger; they were good friends! Still, Ellie said "Digger would have ended up the way he is even if there had never been a Jock Ewing."

Also Sam Culver said to Jock about Digger "You did as right by him as anyone could have. Of course I could have done it without making him my enemy." Jock replied: "That's what makes you the best politician in the state."

"Katherine hated Cliff because of him embezzling her father’s company and causing Rebecca’s death by her going in his place on the Wentworth jet" Rebecca died because a pilot, or both pilots those planes made mistakes. Rebecca wouldn't have been on that plane anyway if she hadn't been sticking her nose in something that was none of her business. How much can you expect of a woman who would abandon her two babies, leaving them in the care of an alcoholic?
 
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Billy Wall

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Speaking of Ellie giving half of Southfork to Clayton. It also goes against her character. She once got mad because Ray was running the ranch “without an once of Southworth blood.” So now, all of a sudden, she’ll be OK with Dusty potentially inheriting a portion of Southfork?
 

Kenny Coyote

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Are you being serious? JR was a very bad guy. He has the one trait that most villains have. He’s power hungry and he’s do almost anything to get get it and keep it.
Yes, I'm serious. I equate the oil business to a shark tank. If you don't become the biggest, baddest Great White, then you're gonna get eaten up. JR didn't create the oil business. He was doing what was necessary to survive and flourish in that business.

Do you know what an antihero is?

If you didn't like JR Ewing, you weren't watching every Dallas every Friday night.
 
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Billy Wall

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Yes, I'm serious. I equate the oil business to a shark tank. If you don't become the biggest, baddest Great White, then you're gonna get eaten up. JR didn't create the oil business. He was doing what was necessary to survive and flourish in that business.

Do you know what an antihero is?
Yes, and JR doesn’t fit the bill as an antihero. Was he an antihero when he was out cheating on Sue Ellen? Was he being an antihero when he said, “I’m going to cut Bobby out even if I have to destroy Ewing Oil (his beloved daddy’s company) to do it?
 

Kenny Coyote

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Yes, and JR doesn’t fit the bill as an antihero. Was he an antihero when he was out cheating on Sue Ellen? Was he being an antihero when he said, “I’m going to cut Bobby out even if I have to destroy Ewing Oil (his beloved daddy’s company) to do it?
A man cheating on his wife doesn't make him a villain. JFK cheated on his wife constantly. It makes them bad husbands but not villains. Sue Ellen did plenty of cheating too. If you're marriage isn't working you get a divorce; you don't copy bad behavior.

"Was he being an antihero when he said, “I’m going to cut Bobby out even if I have to destroy Ewing Oil (his beloved daddy’s company) to do it?"

Saying ain't doing.
 
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Billy Wall

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A man cheating on his wife doesn't make him a villain. JFK cheated on his wife constantly. It makes them bad husbands but not villains. Sue Ellen did plenty of cheating too. If you're marriage isn't working you get a divorce; you don't copy bad behavior.

"Was he being an antihero when he said, “I’m going to cut Bobby out even if I have to destroy Ewing Oil (his beloved daddy’s company) to do it?"

Saying ain't doing.
He tried, but he didn’t succeed. Bobby was a better business man than he thought.

And we’re talking about a TV show. Not real life. You have a character that blackmails, schemes and cheats on his wife in virtually every episode, that character is the villain.
 

Kenny Coyote

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He tried, but he didn’t succeed. Bobby was a better business man than he thought.

And we’re talking about a TV show. Not real life. You have a character that blackmails, schemes and cheats on his wife in virtually every episode, that character is the villain.
You're not changing my mind and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Everyone sees things differently.

I explained I equate the oil business to a shark tank. JR didn't create the oil business. He had to become hard and aggressive in order to survive and flourish in that business.
 
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Billy Wall

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You're not changing my mind and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Everyone sees things differently.

I explained I equate the oil business to a shark tank. JR didn't create the oil business. He became what he had to in order to survive and flourish.
So you’re saying everybody was as bad as JR?

The government eventually took Ewing Oil in less than 10 years after Jock died. So how exactly did he flourish?
 

Jimmy Todd

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Are you being serious? JR was a very bad guy. He has the one trait that most villains have. He’s power hungry and he’s do almost anything to get get it and keep it.
This is an interesting conversation
Let's define our terms. What in your opinions makes a character an antihero?
I'd be interested in hearing.
In my opinion, an antihero doesn't conform to the rules, is outside the standard morals and values of society, but there needs to be some lines he or she will not cross. This is just how I see it. It doesn't mean I'm right, necessarily.
 

Kenny Coyote

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So you’re saying everybody was as bad as JR?

The government eventually took Ewing Oil in less than 10 years after Jock died. So how exactly did he flourish?
As bad? I didn't say he was bad, except as a husband. He was what he needed to be in that environment.

How did he flourish? Lot of ways. When he made his family billionaires (with the Asian oil leases) is one way that comes to mind.
 
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Kenny Coyote

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This is an interesting conversation
Let's define our terms. What in your opinions makes a character an antihero?
I'd be interested in hearing.
In my opinion, an antihero doesn't conform to the rules, is outside the standard morals and values of society, but there needs to be some lines he or she will not cross. This is just how I see it. It doesn't mean I'm right, necessarily.
Here's one definition I found of antihero: a central character in a story, movie, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes.

That describes JR very well. He was the central character and lacked the conventional heroic attributes.

Also yes, he has some lines he won't cross. He won't murder people, or pay someone else to murder them, although having Cliff killed certainly would have made things a lot easier for him and the rest of his family as well.
 

Billy Wall

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This is an interesting conversation
Let's define our terms. What in your opinions makes a character an antihero?
I'd be interested in hearing.
In my opinion, an antihero doesn't conform to the rules, is outside the standard morals and values of society, but there needs to be some lines he or she will not cross. This is just how I see it. It doesn't mean I'm right, necessarily.
Han Solo comes to
Mind as a antihero. Jack Sparrow is another. Good guys that will bend the rules to achieve a goal. JR was not a good guy. He wasn’t evil, but to say he was a good guy is laughable. There’s a reason he’s considered one of the greatest TV villains of all time.
 
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Billy Wall

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Here's one definition I found of antihero: a central character in a story, movie, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes.

That describes JR very well. He was the central character and lacked the conventional heroic attributes.

Also yes, he has some lines he won't cross. He won't murder people, or pay someone else to murder them, although having Cliff killed certainly would have made things a lot easier for him and the rest of his family as well.
That doesn’t describe JR at all. Do you know what an antihero is? Antihero’s are “heroes.” How is JR a hero?
 

Kenny Coyote

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That doesn’t describe JR at all. Do you know what an antihero is? Antihero’s are “heroes.” How is JR a hero?
I din't say he was a hero; I said he was an antihero.

This is the Merriam Webster definition of an antihero:

Definition of antihero


: a protagonist or notable figure who is conspicuously lacking in heroic qualities
 
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