Tyler Perry's The Haves and the Have Nots

Jason73

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The pacing on this show is SO weird. Season two ended with Amanda pacing the Crier mansion with a loaded gun. The gun goes off and the viewer is left wondering if Amanda shot Kathryn, Wyatt or herself. Three episodes into season 3 and we know that Wyatt is alive but we don't know anything about the gun that went off or what happened to Kathryn or Amanda. (Well, I know--because I accidentally spoiled it.) Four episodes into the season and we finally learn that Amanda has killed herself. Even if this was a daily daytime soap the pacing would seem odd.

And actually, I don't really know if I am on season 2 or season 3. The site that I am watching the episodes on has them all labeled wrong and IMDb has them labeled all weird. Oh well. I wonder what Oprah has against iTunes, Amazon or a DVD release. The show isn't available through any of those legit outlets.

Anyways, back to the show:

Veronica has given Maggie the (literal) smack down to end all smack downs for almost sleeping with David.

Jeffery has accidentally kissed Benny.

Candace has Jim tied up in a basement and has forced him to make an incriminating sex tape.

Wyatt is drinking again and attempted to seduce Celine. Speaking of Celine, I've found her extremely annoying until we found out she has a grown son with Jim. Prior to that, she just seemed petty and immature. Now she's a bit more interesting.

Hanna is back at work.

Veronica has informed Quincy that Candace is at Jeffery's apartment. She's asked him to just hurt Jeffery a little. That woman is cold as ice.

I'm getting frustrated with Jeffery refusing to stand up to his mother. With the case against Wyatt over and someone else confessing to the hit and run, you would think that the leverage the car provides her would be considerably lessened.
 
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Jason73

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I LOVE Landon. Watching Veronica squirm at a press conference, where Landon set her up to take some tough questions about gay rights was so much fun. Naturally, Veronica pulls it together and pulls off a win, but it was entertaining none the less and the look she shot Landon after she triumphs--I'm surprised Landon didn't bleed out from all the daggers she was shooting him.
 

Jason73

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Well, Landon's little press ambush has possibly cost him his job, but because he's awesome he manages a big exit by kissing Jeffery and telling Jeffery's fake girlfriend that he's gay.

Meanwhile, Kathryn has finally found out about Amanda's suicide. This show may suck at pacing, but it knows how to create huge, soapy moments.
 

Daniel Avery

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The episode where you saw the long-shot of the mansion and heard Amanda's gun go off was the season two cliffhanger. It's difficult to keep up with their style of episode "marking" where they refer to one batch of episodes as half a season rather than a complete season. Oh, and this spate of episodes is the one I referred to as the seven or eight episodes that cover about 24 hours. A lot of stuff happened in the minutes/hours before Amanda's gun went off in the final episode of season two, and of course all the stuff happening in the night/morning after kept Amanda's fate strung out impossibly long. And the day's not even over yet!

Jim's situation is not supposed to be funny, but it is to me. Candace's friends taking blackmail pics of Jim with transvestite hookers (or whatever that was) was uproarious. While Candace's kidnapping by the Malones (Jim's 'rent-a-thug' organization) was meant to be violent and horrifying, Candace took a more "kill 'em with embarrassment" approach and plans to get a few million bucks out of Jim as "severance pay". Her pal Warlock ("War") is a character to watch, not just some random thug, BTW.

I always thought Veronica's leverage against Jeffrey (the car) was doubly-bad, because even if Jeffrey developed a backbone and told her to pound sand, she could either turn in her son....or turn in her son's unrequited love, Wyatt. Jeffrey is too stupid to see what a basket case Wyatt is and seems totally blind to this. I mean, I know he's hot and all, but what a whiny, self-pitying mess. Ronnie knows that putting dear Wyatt in harm's way will keep Jeffrey in line, even if she virulently detests the way Jeffrey feels about Wyatt. In fact, all of Veronica's activities in this period are geared toward controlling everyone around her. The more control she tries to exert, the more she pushes away Jeffrey, David, and everyone else. Her insane jealousy about Maggie knows no bounds, either.
 

Jason73

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It's difficult to keep up with their style of episode "marking" where they refer to one batch of episodes as half a season rather than a complete season.
And it doesn't help when things are labelled wrong by the people uploading them. That's how I spoiled Amanda's suicide, but watching the "last time on . . ." clip at the beginning of an episode that was mislabled.

Oh, and this spate of episodes is the one I referred to as the seven or eight episodes that cover about 24 hours. A lot of stuff happened in the minutes/hours before Amanda's gun went off in the final episode of season two, and of course all the stuff happening in the night/morning after kept Amanda's fate strung out impossibly long. And the day's not even over yet!
It's crazy. I can't decide if it's a deliberate subversion of the genre or just basic ineptitude--or somewhere in between. It doesn't really put me off the show, obviously, but it's sort of interesting. It makes me wonder about how they map seasons and how they film the seasons.

Jim's situation is not supposed to be funny, but it is to me. Candace's friends taking blackmail pics of Jim with transvestite hookers (or whatever that was) was uproarious.
Those pictures were hilarious!

Her pal Warlock ("War") is a character to watch, not just some random thug, BTW.
Interesting. I figured I had seen the last of him. But, now that you mention it, I'm not that surprised. I thought Quincy would be a character who was in and out as well and yet he's still hanging in there, still trying to find Candace. Same with the character who is the grandfather of the girl who died in the hit and run. I like that the show gets such good use out of it's supporting characters. It makes their world seem much smaller and interconnected.

In fact, all of Veronica's activities in this period are geared toward controlling everyone around her. The more control she tries to exert, the more she pushes away Jeffrey, David, and everyone else. Her insane jealousy about Maggie knows no bounds, either.
It's so much fun to watch. I can't think of any character who more deserves the "love to hate" label. She's a fantastic creation and the actress plays her with such gusto.
 

Jason73

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Jim trying to navigate the city's public transit system after being released from his kidnappers has been hilarious.
 

Jason73

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Jeffery's never-ending consolation hug with Wyatt, tenderly stroking Wyatt's hair and defiantly staring down his mom--it's moments like these when I love this show best.

Celine mouthing off to Veronica, Kathryn hurling a vase at Celine, Kathryn slapping Wyatt, plus Veronica trying to use Melissa to block Jeffery's homoerotic comforting of Wyatt--the fall out from Amanda's suicide has been pure soap.

Veronica to an uncooperative police officer: "Do you know where you are son? You are in a house full of lawyers and judges. There are more degrees here than a thermometer."
 

Jason73

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I have NEVER, in all my soap loving days, seen anything like Kathryn dragging Celine out of the room by her hair--literally dragging her across the floor by her hair.
 

Daniel Avery

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It's not really talked about (there would be little point), but I can't really comprehend how Celine managed to stay employed at the Cryer mansion all those years. As you saw, she and Kathryn are always close to the boiling point, and one would think Kathryn would have demanded Celine be paid off and sent away years ago when Celine got pregnant by Jim. I simply can't imagine the Kathryn we see right now putting up with Jim's "#4" in her house every day for decades.

Jennifer Sallison, the DA (yet another character played by a daytime vet--I love picking out the familiar faces!) seems to enjoy waving her power around to make Jim (and Kathryn) nervous, so suggesting the suicide was possibly a murder is just her needling the Cryers at a terrible time. The Cryers might be as dysfunctional as hell, but DA Sallison will eventually learn hell hath no fury like a parent protecting a child.

I think Renee Lawless absolutely nailed this material she was given surrounding Amanda's death and her rage with Jim's "I'll take care of it" mantra. She blames Jim for everything wrong in her life, even when she bears some of the responsibility for her and her kids' problems. It's a lot easier to dump on Jim, I guess.
 

Jason73

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It's not really talked about (there would be little point), but I can't really comprehend how Celine managed to stay employed at the Cryer mansion all those years. As you saw, she and Kathryn are always close to the boiling point, and one would think Kathryn would have demanded Celine be paid off and sent away years ago when Celine got pregnant by Jim. I simply can't imagine the Kathryn we see right now putting up with Jim's "#4" in her house every day for decades.
Early on, Kathryn said she kept Celine around to torture Jim and Celine. Recently something was said along the lines of her being kept on because she had two children with Jim but didn't try to use it to her advantage or something along those lines. Neither explanation seems very plausible to me. Celine is currently fired, but pretty much everybody who has been fired has ended up back on the job within an episode or two.

Jennifer Sallison, the DA (yet another character played by a daytime vet--I love picking out the familiar faces!) seems to enjoy waving her power around to make Jim (and Kathryn) nervous, so suggesting the suicide was possibly a murder is just her needling the Cryers at a terrible time. The Cryers might be as dysfunctional as hell, but DA Sallison will eventually learn hell hath no fury like a parent protecting a child.
I've always liked Shari Headley. Jennifer is another example of a minor character that the show uses well.

Speaking of former soap stars, Peter Parros' David has really grown on me over the course of this series. He has a quiet strength that is kind of attractive.

I think Renee Lawless absolutely nailed this material she was given surrounding Amanda's death and her rage with Jim's "I'll take care of it" mantra.
She's been amazing. I still don't think the show has used her as much as they should since the first season. She doesn't do much except react to the storylines going on around her. I'm hoping she becomes more of a driving force in future seasons.


As you mentioned Daniel, the Sarandon has become a hub of activity. With Candace, David, Maggie, and Landon all staying there currently; every other scene seems to take place there.

Jeffery has just had the crap beat out of him by Quincy, thanks to his mother. Speaking of Jeffery, I'm assuming it's just of matter of time before Melissa tells him she's pregnant.
 

Jason73

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Jim crumpled up on the floor, crying in Hanna's lap was actually kind of moving.

Landon's signature color is apparently purple--because he is always wearing gorgeous purple shirts. They look good on him, but then pretty much everything does. I love that he is becoming friends with Candace. My biggest complaint about Landon is that he isn't in enough scenes.

Who is this mysterious Oscar who appears to be interested in Candace? What's he up to?
 

Jason73

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Veronica's schemes are starting to collapse on her. She shows up at the Sarandon and opens with throwing a drink in Maggie's face. David asks her if she had Quincy beat up Jeffery and she admits that she had him "beat his ass" to beat the gay out of him. David calls her a "simple bitch" and Veronica proceeds to trash the Sarandon's bar--throwing glasses, bottles, chairs. I really love this character--so hateful, such a force to be reckoned with.
 

Daniel Avery

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It's so hard to stop myself from blurting out juicy spoiler material. This show just makes you want to gossip about everything--like the "water-cooler" shows of the past.
I will restrain myself until you mention having seen the upcoming twists. It may involve tying my fingers in knots to stop typing. :crazy:
 

Jason73

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"YOU GO TO HELL!!" It's mid-season finale time! (I think.)

Finally!! Jeffery learns that Veronica, using an ovulation kit, helped Melissa get pregnant with his baby and it's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Jeffery finally stands up to her, tells her off and walks out. So satisfying.

Veronica is completely unravelled, wig off, drunk, smoking, desperately trying to take back control of situations that have spiraled out of her control.

After finding out that Quincy hit his mother, Benny gets arrested for beating him up.

Wyatt confesses to the DA that he was behind the hit and run. Jim's version of tough love is to congratulate him on standing up for himself and explaining to him how he's probably going to be raped in prison.

Veronica gets Benny out of jail. I think she must be up to something. Turns out she's just horny and still angry about David's supposed affair with Maggie. She ends up having sex with Benny in her car. Across town at the Sarandon, Candace is having sex with Oscar and Jeffery is having sex with Landon.

Veronica dumps gasoline all over the bedroom where David is sleeping and lights the room on fire, then calmly walks out of the house.
 
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Jason73

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This show just makes you want to gossip about everything--like the "water-cooler" shows of the past.
Yes! There are so many water cooler moments in this show. I know I have skipped past posting about some of them because before I can post, they get eclipsed by the next moment. Every day I tell myself, "ok that's enough posting for one day" and then something else shocking happens and I'm back on here typing about it. It's one of those shows where I say I will watch just one more episode for the day and end up watching three more.

How close am I to being caught up to where they are currently? I honestly have no idea.

I will restrain myself until you mention having seen the upcoming twists.
I don't know how this show can top itself, but it keeps managing.
 

Daniel Avery

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Yeah, that's the mid-season cliffhanger, all right.

I don't know how this show can top itself, but it keeps managing.
Oh, much more to come. We might need to buy a few extra water coolers!

When the show returns on June 20 (not sure if that's the exact date), it will be the second half of season five. I'm guessing you will be "caught up" around that time, which will allow you to go right to the new stuff...and suffer through only one episode per week like the rest of us. :rolleyes:
 

Jason73

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Oh, much more to come. We might need to buy a few extra water coolers!
I can't even imagine!

I'm guessing you will be "caught up" around that time, which will allow you to go right to the new stuff...and suffer through only one episode per week like the rest of us.
I'll make that my goal then. I'm curious to see how this show plays out week to week rather than bingeing.


I'm sad that Veronica burned down that beautiful house.

Watching Wyatt be the dick to end all dicks has been fun, but it was also very satisfying to see Jim beat the crap out of him and see Veronica try to give him a verbal smackdown. You know Waytt's lost the fight whenever he ends the conversation with "go to hell" and then stomps off.
 

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Kathryn figured out one way to wipe the smug look off of Candace's face--she smashed a whiskey bottle on her head. Everyone on this show is so awful, that you just sit back and enjoy watching each and every one of them take their turns gaining the upper hand on one another. It's all satisfying because they all deserve it---except for Landon. Poor Landon--he has the most expressive eyes ever and he deserves better than Jeffery.
 
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