Tyler Perry's The Haves and the Have Nots

Brian Kinney

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So Wyatt fantasises about killing everyone but isn't able to stay sober to do it? I wonder if Veronica is now done for real. Not that I mind, they overdone her evilness too much to be still entertaining. Especially the homophobic remarks are unbearable to me. I'm just sad for David, he deserves better. Is Kathryn really into the one 'R' Rick? She actually seems to care for him. And the actor's appearances on Dynasty as Cristal's brother were too short. So he deserves a little happiness. Oh and Hanna's actress Crystal Fox was in the last episode of Big Little Lies playing Zoe Kravitz's mother. I only recognized her voice, she is so much more attractive when dressed different. A whole other person, great actress.
 

Brian Kinney

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A crazy season 7 finale (seventh according to this source) in which Wyatt finally does what he was fantasising about... or, wait: Veronica is still alive after been drowned for eternity in the pool. But we know now how she survived because Jim reminded David that the Queen was actually a lifeguard during high school days. Of course, why not? At this point though I already assumed she is a vampire and David a superhero because he killed all of Queenie's goons I'm sure (that is up to our imagination because they showed only the Queen outside smoking).

But how are the white Haves to survive the bloodbath in which all (including Wyatt) seemed pretty dead to me? I think something about the final minutes felt like a dream: since when is the police so fast arriving at a crime scene? Who called them? The Cryers don't live in hear-sight of anyone.

And while Jim was genuinely surprised by Wyatt's action Kathryn had a certain advantage in the situation which she didn't use and this isn't typical for her. She acted rather as she was starring in a teen slasher flick - not the cool Kathryn we know. So I rather think this is a dream that started when Jim left his son in his room to argue with Kathryn. That gave Wyatt enough time to do coke and drifting into his tribute to the Moldavian Massacre. Next season he wakes up, he takes a shower and greets the viewers with a tongue-in-cheek "Good morning!".

I know Perry's show isn't known for paying homages or showing any other hint of real creativity but please do it here just for once. Because it's easier to believe than to have all three survive the mass murder and I want them all to stay because the Cryers are the most entertaining characters to me.

Also: the careers of Tika Sumpter (Candace), Crystal Fox (Hanna) and Rome Flynn (R -whatever) all seem to head outside of the Perryverse and Kristian Kordula (Landon) is already absent. Keep Kathryn, Jim and Wyatt!

BTW: Nice scene with Justin and muscle Madison, first time I actually cared about the creepy ex-cop well played by Nicholas James.
 
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Daniel Avery

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What I noticed most about this mid-season finale is TP's over-reliance on violence for plot movement. There's always been more of it than your average soap, but in two episodes we had a violent prison rape; attempted murder via drowning; a double (seeming) homicide involving a child killing his parents; the (seeming) killing of that child by the cops; the ordering of a 'hit' on David and Jeffery, as well as their retaliation/self-defense...all while the 'hits' on Wyatt and Benny hanging over their heads until the last few minutes. I lived in Savannah for forty years and I had no idea the Hired Goon industry was so strong in that town.

I'd like to think the shootings at the Cryer mansion are a dream, but TP typically goes more for 'mis-direction' than outright dream sequences. It would be easily explainable that Wyatt managed to wound but not kill his parents, that the inexplicably quick arrival of the police* will work in their favor as they get taken to the hospital...and that the police intentionally shot to wound/disarm Wyatt rather than outright kill him. Wyatt's shotgun was old and un-used for a long time, so it's aim might be lousy, and of course he was stoned at the time. Frankly I would not be too saddened if they did kill off Wyatt, since he hasn't been an important player in the show for several seasons...though it would be interesting if they could re-hab his character the way they did with Candace (which was overdue, if you ask me).

As much as I hated the whole "President Elect" storyline, they managed to achieve some story goals through it. The fallout got Candace to declare a truce with Hanna, and Jim will likely get the Attorney General to drop his and Kathryn's case in exchange for info on Candace's activities. With Candace getting dumped that way, it allows them to write off Charles (and probably Landon) and focus on Savannah again, and gives the writers the chance to wipe the slate clean with respect to all the past crimes that hang over the heads of the Cryers and Harringtons. It's been eight seasons and they still had that whole "Wyatt ran over that little girl" story from season one hanging over them; a better-written soap would have solved that issue within a year.

When Kathryn secretly moved Roderick into Wyatt's old apartment, I was convinced the Malones (who had a hit out on Wyatt) would mistake Roderick for Wyatt and gun him down in the apartment. It would be a mistaken-identity murder similar to what happened to Maggie Day, and hopefully rid us of the whole Artesian Hotel storyline. Alas, my hunch was wrong; there apparently won't be a hit on Wyatt thanks to Mitch's fancy footwork. Then again, Wyatt got gunned down anyway.:yikey:

I was glad to see they remembered Mitch, and they seem to be guiding him toward becoming a more 'gray' character. The actor is very charismatic and waving around bundles of money doesn't hurt his attractiveness at all. :D He's certainly more watchable than Benny, who becomes more two-dimensional every year.

When Kathryn finally got Derek on the phone, I could swear that wasn't the voice of the actor who originally played him. This, along with his "drop off the face of the earth" this past nine episodes tells me they must be recasting the part. I half-expected Derek to blow his brains out mid-call with Kathryn, given the orgy of violence the past few episodes have been.

* I'm thinking the police were already on their way out there in connection with the grand jury's indictment of the Cryers and the Harringtons. Why else would George, the District Attorney (not a police officer) be along for the ride? He has been obsessed with "getting" Jim Cryer for so long that he'd want to be on hand when they were arrested. They were actually indicted two days before (HAHN-time) and I had wondered why the police had not taken them all in within the hour.
 

Brian Kinney

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But for what other buildings could they use the hotel sets instead? Perry doesn't just close them. And as much as I like Mitch - yes he's way more interesting than Benny (and a better actor) - I hope that doesn't mean we see more of the Malone family because the show really has too much crime (Law and Order: Savannah). Also I don't like the seedy bar set. I prefer watching men selling their hot bodies in that hotel.

I hope they keep Wyatt because I like the total craziness of that family on a level that isn't as outlandish as Veronica is towards Jeffrey and David. And at least there was no glee when Wyatt killed them. BTW it's weird that Jeffrey and Wyatt are both so involved with their parents considering their assumed age. I would have them sharing an apartment to rekindle their difficult bromance from Season 1. With Justin and Madison Muscle as frequent guests because the hospital set looks so boringly sterile.

To me Veronica is the weakest link of the show: she is at a point where redemption seems to be impossible and continuing that character as she is also seems dead end to me. I don't like viewing people torturing others without consequence. While I was not the slightest uncomfortable with Kathryn killing Jennifer because it was fast and without terrorizing the poor woman I'm having a problem how Veronica is doing the bad things. Especially the verbal insults are way beyond anything I want to hear in a soap (or any other TV show for that matter). And I noticed that the actress is barely varying her voice in those scenes (different to earlier seasons) - she may be frustrated by the one-dimensionality of it too.
 

Daniel Avery

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In one of the previous seasons they actually had Wyatt clean up and go sober. They even paired him romantically with his substance-abuse counselor. It was the only time he showed promise...and someone on the writing staff decided to scuttle that whole arc and have him go right back to drugs.​

If Wyatt were making an effort to overcome his addiction, or even expressed the wish to overcome it, I think Jeffery would offer his support and/or assistance. Unfortunately Wyatt is too wrapped up in blaming his parents for everything wrong in his life to even notice that he's an adult, much less notice that he is his own worst enemy. Like I said earlier, he is just as passive-aggressive as his mother, so even as he had/has the means to get out of his hopeless situation, he stayed and continued to speed along the path to self-destruction---mostly to punish his parents. The whole back-story they've developed (he was sexually abused as a child at summer camp by a priest, apparently) in an effort to explain his addictive personality and self-loathing could be explored further, but I have no idea if the show wants to go so 'deep' with Wyatt. Obviously they can give an emotional story like that to a lead actress like Crystal Fox (and she has had several dumped on her over the years), but Aaron O'Connell is no Crystal Fox.

Veronica is indeed well into "irredeemable" territory, whether Tyler Perry wants to believe it or not. Making her too smart for the room (not making mistakes in her revenge plots and cover-ups) and now seemingly physically invulnerable (she's been run off the road, pushed off balconies, drowned, etc.) ventures into the sort of anti-MarySue territory that makes people start to fall out of love with her antics. She needs to be shown in genuine jeopardy, in genuine fear for her life or something similar once in a while just to keep her from becoming too much of a cartoon. I thought we were going to get that when the FBI investigators seemed not to be dropping the investigation into her planting the bomb that killed Erica (and almost killed Federal Judge David), but I haven't seen any movement on that. There was a curious (but thoughtful) scene with her maid Alice, who'd finally had enough of Veronica's constant abuse and dismissive attitude. When Alice announced she was quitting, she pointed out that Veronica ought not be so quick to dismiss the "little people" like her (Alice), because they see things...and know things...and Veronica ought to realize that the "little people" can easily be the downfall of people who think they are better than everyone else. It was a nifty little seed they planted that said Alice (or some other person Veronica treated horribly, one of the 'have nots') could very easily bring her down if they spoke to the right people. Time will tell if that was foreshadowing or if it was just filler. When Kathryn chased her through the mansion wielding a knife for an entire episode, we saw Veronica at her most "mortal" and made it an even match--and much more exciting even if we knew neither woman was going to be going anywhere.

But for what other buildings could they use the hotel sets instead? Perry doesn't just close them.
He burned down the "first" Cryer mansion when they switched studios; I have to say I liked that other mansion more than the current one, although it looks much more like a mansion that would exist in Savannah. The original had "Dunwoody" or "Buckhead" (Atlanta) written all over it. But the hotel won't be going anywhere, I'll assume. Hanna is supposedly going to be working there in some kind of management position in their housekeeping offices. Kathryn offered her the job over a year ago (our time) but of course that's like...three days ago their time. :eek: Anyway, she mentioned going to work there in the most recent episode so they obviously remember it. They could have Benny take a job there too...he hasn't had a proper job since the tow-truck business went tits-up. If the Three R's are still in hiding from the FBI, Benny might claim one of their jobs.

It occurred to me last night that the show made a bit of a goof by saying that Jeffery comes up in Justin's records as his "next of kin". We met Justin's mother, Pearl (a kind of ditzy, casual bigot who was Candace's neighbor) and his ex-wife (who was his current wife then). If Justin's lying in a hospital bed, beaten to a pulp, you'd think Jeffery or maybe Madison would contact his mother and urge her to step in. Hell, if he'd tell her half the stuff he just told Madison, she could have him placed in a psychiatric facility to work out his homicidal/suicidal/obsessive tendencies. His ex-wife (a Judge) would probably sign the papers to have him committed once they learn he tried to blow his head off. I guess they need to keep the actor on the show rather than send his character away since he and Tika Sumpter are an item.
 

Brian Kinney

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As always many thoughtful insights, thank you!

I think the ties between Jeffrey and his mother and ex-wife are forever broken and it's the patient's choice to name a "next of kin".

As interesting the backstory of Wyatt could be that's probably also the only way to understand Veronica - he's traumatized by the rape(s) and something more must happened in her past that made her such a homophobic bitch. But will they show it or continue to forget about it? The latter I assume...

Now will Hanna get one of the other R's? ;)
 
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Daniel Avery

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No, but I'd love to see Hanna attempt to 'mother' RK...her lectures about doing the "righteous" thing fall on Benny's deaf ears, so she might take on RK as a "pet project", and he might actually want some sort of mother figure. She had a few minutes of that with Melissa before she decided to take a header off the roof. The writers keep passing RK off to other characters to interact with, so maybe it'll be Hanna's turn.

I'm assuming the story Veronica told David beside the pool (saying Jeffery's father was some employee of David's who was actually bisexual) was just that--a story, which she made up to test David to see if he was genuinely trying to reconcile with her. We can say both of them failed the test. o_O If they were to stick with that story, however, it doesn't really explain her being so homophobic. She only had that affair because she felt neglected; she didn't really "love" the guy she slept with, so his so-called betrayal would not have scarred her that much. I think some people are just wired to be that way, and they ought to just stick with her homophobia just being a part of her personality alongside her other negative traits (of which there are many). I don't think the show wants to explore the depths of her depravity simply because they're having too much fun with her acting out that depravity. Look at how relatively easy they went with reforming Candace, a character who has a lot more emotional baggage to unpack since she's spent most of the series as the lead character. There wasn't a lot of introspection and tears. If they want to continue with the "kinder, softer" Candace, they'll have to keep Veronica as the Bitch on Wheels since they don't seem able to write a show without lots of backstabbing and betrayals (and yes, violent confrontations).
 

Daniel Avery

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I'm resurrecting this thread because the new season of The Haves and the Have Nots will begin tomorrow night (Tuesday at 9pm Eastern).
 

Jason73

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I'm SO far behind on this show! There are too many good things to watch! I can't even remember what season I'm on. I'm probably four seasons behind the current season--which I'm guessing is about two days later in THATHN timeline.
 

Daniel Avery

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I could catch you up. It'd take about 10,000 words and an hour or so to write, but it's Tyler Perry--nothing really has changed. The characters move from place to place and talk a lot....things blow up and people shoot at one another...nostrils flare and eyes turn to angry slits...and yet despite everything in every scene seeming so high-stakes and dramatic, you realize an hour later that nothing really happened!

I think I lapsed into hate-watching toward the end of the most recent season, but it's hard to tell if it's true hate-watching, or if I'm watching for the same reason you can't resist looking at car accidents when you drive past. Part of it is intentional on TP's part, of course--he doesn't intend for the show to be high-brow drama. But being watchable and being well-done do not have to be mutually exclusive. It has been so long since we last dropped in on those high-strung nutcases that I can't recall what I disliked the most (probably the Benny/Malones stuff), but for every weak story like that, you have the complicated Jeffery/Justin/Madison triangle that has the perfect amount of TP envelope-pushing combined with the "same scene over and over" feeling. So yes, I plan to watch; my cable guide says they're doing two episodes back-to-back. And since I'm 99% sure this stuff was filmed before the lockdown, the staging won't be all awkward and tentative like the daytime soaps I've been watching.
 

Jason73

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The characters move from place to place and talk a lot....things blow up and people shoot at one another...nostrils flare and eyes turn to angry slits...and yet despite everything in every scene seeming so high-stakes and dramatic, you realize an hour later that nothing really happened!

This is such a perfect description of the show. :lol:
 

Daniel Avery

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[/rubs temples with fingertips]
Those two episodes last night would have been easier if I had kept paper and a pencil in hand. In addition to the eight or nine regulars, the six to eight heavily recurring characters, and the ten or twelve new faces introduced last night, the size of the cast resembled a daily, daytime soap. Does TP genuinely expect viewers to keep track of all those new characters, or even learn their names all at once? I was struggling with all the names/faces at the end of last season, and now he's almost doubled the cast of characters. Maybe if they'd worn name tags?

Obviously some of them will be cannon fodder--can't keep shooting or blowing up the contract players!--but there were already recurring characters I did not like (Charles, Landon, most of the Malones), and rather than cutting their screen time, TP is expanding their roles by giving them more characters to interact with--so the second-stringers now have their own third-stringers. The principal cast was already rarely seen (some were getting one scene per episode), and it looks as if we'll be seeing even less of them as they service all these third-stringers that no one even knows. There were so many newbies being introduced that they did not even get around to showing several of the characters from the previous season. They could easily drop the three "R" guys at the hotel, since their purpose (conning Kathryn out of some of her millions) has been taken up by several new characters (two of whom I hereby christen "The Ambiguously Gay Accountants"). There are also two cons out to take Veronica's millions (with help from suddenly-scummy Derrick). Justin was visited by a never-mentioned brother (actually they mentioned several brothers), and Extra-Crispy Erica's extra-slutty friend from their 'ho days took off all her clothes and cavorted in the fountain in front of Dazed (and Confused) David's house. They've taken this whole "President Elect" Charles sub-plot to absurdly uninteresting proportions, since Landon's office-nemesis (name?) is now hiring ambiguously gay PIs to tail Candace (why?) and buying drugs (???) as he talks about how his father (who?) plans to run for President someday. I thought that was the low-point of the night...at least until we were forced to sit through scenes where Jim and Celine's illegitimate son decided to visit both Jim and Wyatt in their hospital rooms. At least we had known about the kid beforehand. But how would we have known he would be played by such a terrible actor? He makes Amanda (RIP) look like Meryl Streep.

But hey, at least we got Tipsy!Jeffery and Sexy!Madison having tipsy sexytimes without anything exploding or Justin showing up to set the place on fire. Believe me, I was watching the scenes waiting for something similar, since TP seems to have a writing directive not to allow any character one moment of happiness. But if the dialogue is any indication, Jeffery had three such moments.
 
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Brian Kinney

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The gays are coming!

Madison's flamboyant hot ex Colby is another character who adds nothing to the story because Justin, Jeffrey or Madison could have done the same. Peeing in Veronica's pool - the gay Have Nots? (Jeffrey hasn't worked since Season 1 when he was a "counsellor")

Landon, Charles and Oliver plus the guy who gave Landon info about Oliver - the gay Haves? (Charles coming out if Candace is off forever?)

There are now enough gays on the show to give them their own spin-off.

The guy Hannah just met is too good to be true. Is he a sugardaddy for the evil gay accountants who we saw plotting against Kathryn a few episodes ago? Or Oliver's coke dealer? And Kathryn has to get out of jail - the set looks terrible.
 

Daniel Avery

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Madison's flamboyant hot ex Colby is another character who adds nothing to the story because Justin, Jeffrey or Madison could have done the same.
I just cannot see level-headed Madison ever being in a relationship with Colby. Though I have to say I like the idea of Jeffery having gay friends who aren't closet cases, people who can help him become more comfortable with himself. But you know who would benefit the most from having such a friend? Justin! If he could just interact with gay guys who conduct their normal, boring lives like everyone else, then maybe he would be less self-loathing and screwed-up. Justin kept whining that he needed someone to talk to--maybe one of Colby's mute friends from the pool party would be willing to take on a pet project?

Speaking of the pool party....am I the only one who thought Veronica would just toss an electric space heater in the pool to kill all those guys? I mean, she does such things with more panache than just waving a gun around.

So the back-story on this Oliver guy is that he's the son of a rich, politically-connected man who "might run for President some day". He's also a coke-head who wouldn't have a job if it weren't for his father's influence. So I guess Oliver is TP's version of Hunter Biden!

I have no idea how long ago this season was filmed (it had to be pre-pandemic), but I assume the reason Jim is stuck in that hospital room with only the occasional visitor is because John Schneider had to serve some jail time** a while back. They likely had him film an entire season's scenes (same wardrobe, one set...) to be dropped into the episodes as needed. Which is clever on the producers' part, but he needs to be out and about stirring up trouble. And if this is indeed the reason behind his limited screen time, what's Renee Lawless's excuse? She's been stuck in jail in that same ugly smock all season with only Mama Rose to chat with.

I still can't figure out why no one is willing to go visit Katheryn in jail. I mean, Hanna especially ought to be concerned. If nothing else, Katheryn could explain some of the estate paperwork. Wyatt, son of the richest couple in town--who just attempted to murder them--is on the lam and no one in town seems concerned. I mean, no one wishes they'd write him out more than I do, but while he's still on the show they should try to keep the other characters apprised of the situation.

I think the events of this entire season (ten episodes) occurred over a 36-hour period at most.

** From what I recall, Schneider was going through a messy divorce where his now ex-wife took him to the cleaners. She demanded (and was awarded) huge alimony payments that he literally did not have the money to pay, and when the lawyers were unable to reduce the payments, he had to serve jail time (basically debtors prison). You'd think his wife would understand that he would not be able to earn any of that money from jail, but who knows what goes through those people's minds in Hollywood.
 

tommie

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I dunno
I have no idea how long ago this season was filmed (it had to be pre-pandemic)

Social distancing might not appear on Tyler Perry shows since he uses block shooting in a very short amount of time and quarantines the cast of his shows before starting to shoot. I guess he won't use a lot of extras though.
 

Daniel Avery

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He hasn't used a lot of extras for many years. They've essentially eliminated the Artesian Hotel as a center of action, which was where they often had crowd scenes in the bar. They even seemed to eliminate the "three R" characters who worked there (Rocky, Roderick, and RK). But that was not necessarily in response to Covid-19; they switch centers of action relatively often. Now they all seem to end up at the hospital, the jailhouse, or that seedy dive bar the Malones run...but rarely do we see it busy in any of those places. Which means we won't see much difference when they film during the Covid situation. The biggest change I see in the current season (which is soon to end) is how so few characters are "out and about". I mentioned earlier how Katheryn and Jim are stuck on one set each, but Veronica has barely left her house (nice as it might be) and David only seems to leave his house to be Jim's lackey (and to get away from that nymphomaniac girl who was stripping in his fountain).

There was this story in the news a while back of TP setting up a filming 'bubble' at his enormous studios, which would be easier since the studios used to be an Army base. From stories I've read, there are fully-functioning residential facilities (apartments, townhouses, etc.) on the lot, allowing the actors involved in productions to live in "real" homes (as opposed to hotel rooms) while in the quarantine filming situation. That would certainly make it a nicer situation if they're only there for a month or so.
 

Brian Kinney

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I just cannot see level-headed Madison ever being in a relationship with Colby. Though I have to say I like the idea of Jeffery having gay friends who aren't closet cases, people who can help him become more comfortable with himself. But you know who would benefit the most from having such a friend? Justin!

So true. 100% and finally Tyler Perry does something you envisioned for the show! I was wrong. Colby actually adds something to the show - a gay with self-confidence who fights back. And also for the reason you've mentioned. Trash talking Veronica down AND beating up Justin's despicable brother Tanner in one episode... I love Colby. Best new character this show ever had. Hopefully he stays!
 

Daniel Avery

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How quickly can Justin build a new shrine in his apartment? ;)
Part of me wants Colby to be Celine's other son with Jim, but the ages are all wrong. Drat.

Characters like Colby tend to make a splash (in this case, literally) and cause a pile of trouble, then get hurriedly written out once they've outlived their usefulness. I'm just hoping that they use him to do "good things" (telling off the people who deserve it; cleaning Tanner's clock, etc.) and be a positive force in the stories....not some spoiler out to ruin the Jeffery/Madison relationship or otherwise drag Jeffery down some darker path. "Happy" looks good on Jeffery.

In other "news," that's one of the first episodes I can recall where Candace did not appear at all. Even when Tika Sumpter was about 12 months pregnant and being hidden behind giant potted plants they managed to edit her into one scene per episode. I guess TS is a busy girl, what with her other roles in TV shows and movies. I wonder if the "seven year contracts" we hear about in most TV shows also applies to TP shows. If so, her contract would be up with HAHN along with several other lead actors. The over-exposure of Veronica (witness last night's episode) could make it very easy to forget Candace and her scheming.

And lord knows Wyatt needs to be put out of his misery. Actually, WE need to be put out of ours by having him finally leave, whether it's off to jail, rehab, or in a pine box. I'm not picky.
 

Daniel Avery

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They did not have a large gap between the end of season seven and beginning of season eight (about a month), which was a nice change. But if this will be the final season, I kind of wish they had spaced things out more. At least they finally updated/expanded the opening titles. I was always unnerved by how they had Hanna dolled up in that beaded gown for the group shot when Hanna would never wear anything like that.

I hope that they will end the series in the same vein as Shakespeare tragedies, where 90-95% of characters end up dying. No, I'm not comparing this show to Shakespeare by any stretch. I just think TP has the opportunity to end the show in a much more satisfying way than most shows do, which involve open-ended fates for characters with an eye toward possible revivals or spin-offs. I say end it with the same level of shock and awe that the show operated with for most of its run.

A soap that wishes to continue obviously cannot go around killing everyone off willy-nilly (contracts), but when the show is cancelled--and TP wishes to move on to other projects--it does not matter if you wipe out three-fourths of the cast. Given the trouble so many of them get into on the regular, it wouldn't be surprising that some of them (most of them!) could end up dead....but they could also mix in a few happy endings for those who deserve them.
 
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