Marvel Watching the Marvel Cinematic Universe from the beginning...

[Mel O'Drama]

...Mostly for the first time.

As of last night, it's happening. And I'm rather excited at the prospect. As I watch, I'll post some thoughts in here and then possibly merge this thread into @The Little Ome That Santa Forgot's existing MCU thread.

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A bit of background:

Having regularly read many Marvel titles for a decade or so from the early Eighties (including reprints and back issues going back to the early Sixties), I haven't felt compelled to dive into the Marvel Cinematic Universe until now. I have, however watched four different MCU films over the years:

• The Incredible Hulk
• Ant-Man
• Spider-Man: Homecoming
• Spider-Man: Far From Home

While it's probably over a decade since my sole viewing, I still have The Incredible Hulk on DVD, which is fortunate since it appears to be absent from Disney+ (along with the two Spider-Man films which I may be forced to skip when I reach them).

All other films in the series will be brand new to me, although I do know some events that take place in the universe.


While I will undoubtedly point out some differences, I will attempt (but can't promise) not to be overly critical about liberties taken with characters, events and storylines. I'm going in with the philosophy that the MCU is simply an alternative universe to the "real" Marvel Universe of the comics with its own lore, and is best enjoyed with the understanding that it's non-canon.

Let's dive in with the very first film in the MCU...

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Iron Man (2008)

The thing that’s really grabbed me about this film is how brilliantly it’s balanced simplicity and complexity. It is each of those two things in all the right ways. Watching the first two MCU Spider-Man films independently, most of the complexities came from all the references to characters and events from other films, some of which made it feel a little bloated and inaccessible, but not particularly clever. Iron Man, on the other hand, tells a relatively simple storyline in a way that explores the complexities and nuances which make it feel intelligent and accessible, just as all the best superhero films have always been.

Perhaps helping my enjoyment is that I’m not overly familiar with the character of Iron Man. While he’s always been a familiar part of the fabric of the Marvel Universe for me, I very rarely read his solo title. At the time I regularly read the Avengers comics he wasn’t part of the line-up (and at the time Tony Stark wasn’t even wearing the armour, having been replaced by… well, another character who appears in this film).

In those two Spidey films, Tony Stark has been almost deified. Many seem to worship him. I get a similar vibe from fans of the MCU. Younger family members - for whom Robert Downey Jr.’s portrayal is the definitive (and only) version - have often claimed him as one of the biggest and best of the characters. As someone who leans towards the perverse, I’ve found all this adoration quite off-putting.

Nonetheless, it became apparent very quickly just why he is so highly regarded. This Tony Stark has all the entitlement and shallow hedonism I associate with the character’s playboy image, as well as his flaws and failings (at the very least there’s certainly some foreshadowing going on in this regard) but also so much more. The character’s arc in this first film is incredibly rewarding, and Robert Downey Jr. effortlessly dances between light and dark as his character goes through experiences that would destroy many only to come out of it enlightened and with new purpose.

I’ve loved the updates to see this version of the character through the prism of Twenty First Century culture. The character’s history being told through various magazine covers portraying him as a technological wunderkind à la Bill Gates who knows just how to live large and enjoy the fruits of his (and his father’s) labour. Likewise, updating the setting of Stark’s capture from the Vietnam War of the Sixties to Noughties Afghanistan grounded the story in a necessary reality that, sadly, is still relevant all these years later.

continued...​

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Iron Man

continued
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As far as supporting characters go, I’m happy to say that the most familiar things about Pepper Potts and Obadiah Stane are their names. From time to time I’ve encountered them (or mentions of) in the comics, but they’re pretty much blank slates. The Earth-616 Happy Hogan I know even less about. In fact I recognised him straight away: from the character’s appearances in the first two Holland Spider-Man films. Which means already my association of him is solely as a key supporting player in the MCU, which is great.

James Rhodes is another matter. He was present during my comic reading days. Like Tony Stark, I never followed James’s solo title at the time, but would regularly see him in other titles such as Secret Wars or West Coast Avengers. Terrence Howard looks rather different from the character in the comics (I didn’t twig until later in the film it was actually meant to be Rhodey), but I found him acceptable enough since he acted the part and he’s really only a supporting character here. Plus I understand *SPOILER* the character will be recast after this outing.

There’s also the matter of J.A.R.V.I.S. It’s a nice touch that the name is used, though I think I’d have preferred to see a proper, human Jarvis as he’s long been one of my favourite supporting Marvel characters. Still, I suppose I have that still to come.

In other acronyms, S.H.I.E.L.D. stands for something completely different in the MCU. Which I’m surprisingly OK with. The organisation is mostly embodied by a completely new character, Phil Coulson , played by that rich boyfriend of Jack’s who hired Grace to do some interior decorating on Will & Grace. This works well for me, and I’ve found Clark Gregg endearing in other projects so I’m looking forward to seeing him in some other films.

I’m not sure how to feel about Tony Stark outing himself as Iron Man at the film’s end. In the comics I enjoyed the device of the Avengers interacting with both Stark and Iron Man believing Stark to be their benefactor and Iron Man to be Stark’s bodyguard. I’d really like to have seen this play out for at least one Avengers film. Still, it’s satisfying that it provides both a deus ex machina moment AND a cliffhanger since it creates as many problems as it solves. In the context of the era of mostly self-contained films it’s a fairly bold move to leave loose ends and I enjoy that hint of things to come.

Even more exciting is the post-credits sequence in which Nick Fury makes his debut to prophetically tell Tony:

Mr Stark, you’ve become part of a bigger universe. You just don’t know it yet… I’m here to talk to you about the Avenger Initiative.​

Talk about ambitious. It’s absolutely exhilarating to hear these words this knowing that it sums up what lies ahead.

The words capture the plans and hopes of all involved that would soon bear fruit, turning the live-action superhero genre into one of the biggest things on the planet.

As someone who loves a good cliffhanger and the anticipation of things to come I really feel the mid-and-post-credit scenes have the potential to become my favourite thing about this entire universe. It’s certainly whetted my appetite and left me hungry for more.

 

[Crimson]

Well, how exciting. I was going to ask you in the SPIDER-MAN thread if you were a fan of the MCU as a whole, but with the holidays I hadn't made it back into that thread.

All other films in the series will be brand new to me, although I do know some events that take place in the universe.

Since you started with IRON MAN, you're proceeding in release order rather than chronological? (I don't think one is superior to the other.)

Are you planning to tackle the MCU TV series as well? There are a ton. The ABC (AGENTS OF SHIELD; AGENT CARTER) and Netflix (DAREDEVIL; JESSICA JONES; etc.) shows are of debatable canon status and mostly peripheral, although AGENT CARTER addresses at least one thing you noted you'd like to see. The Disney+ series are far more integral.

While I will undoubtedly point out some differences, I will attempt (but can't promise) not to be overly critical about liberties taken with characters, events and storylines. I'm going in with the philosophy that the MCU is simply an alternative universe to the "real" Marvel Universe of the comics with its own lore, and is best enjoyed with the understanding that it's non-canon.

While nothing wrong with some casual comparisons, the sooner you let go of any expectation of fidelity, the less you're likely to gnash your teeth. I struggled with some of the changes early on but, at this point, the MCU are the real versions of these characters to me.

The thing that’s really grabbed me about this film is how brilliantly it’s balanced simplicity and complexity.

IRON MAN is a darned good film; even with so many subsequent movies and series, the first IRON MAN remains in my top 10 of the MCU.

Friendly warning: they're not all that good! The MCU has gone through some rough patches of poor quality, and you'll hit one pretty soon if you're watching in release order. Once you get into the middle of "Phase Two", there' s a remarkable run of films.

Talk about ambitious. It’s absolutely exhilarating to hear these words this knowing that it sums up what lies ahead.

The MCU started so inauspiciously it's almost mind boggling what it grew into.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Since you started with IRON MAN, you're proceeding in release order rather than chronological?

Yes indeed. The purist in me couldn't do anything but watch in the order they were released, even after briefly considering watching in chronological timeline order.

I will be up for a chronological timeline viewing if and when I come to rewatch all the films but this first time I really want to experience the series unfolding and evolving in the way it would for fans watching each film as they arrived at the cinema.

Are you planning to tackle the MCU TV series as well?

The Disney+ series are far more integral.

I've just taken up a 6 month Disney+ trial subscription with the intent of watching all available MCU films, plus hopefully as many connected series as possible in that window of time. I'm very excited about getting to watch She Hulk, and I'm already feeling anxious that my free subscription will end just as Ms. Marvel begins.

I am a little unsure about where each series slots in between the films, but I've a little time before I get to that point anyway.

While nothing wrong with some casual comparisons, the sooner you let go of any expectation of fidelity, the less you're likely to gnash your teeth.

It's been less bothersome for me than I thought it might. And I say this having watched a further two films today.

at this point, the MCU are the real versions of these characters to me.

Oh wow. I wonder if I'll change my own perspective on this after immersing myself in the MCU.

IRON MAN is a darned good film; even with so many subsequent movies and series, the first IRON MAN remains in my top 10 of the MCU.

That's good to know. It certainly made a great first impression on me so I'm glad I started my journey there.

Friendly warning: they're not all that good! The MCU has gone through some rough patches of poor quality, and you'll hit one pretty soon if you're watching in release order.

Thanks. Given the income they generated and their popularity I really wasn't sure. But I'm happy to ride it out, and if all else fails I can at least hold on to this:

Once you get into the middle of "Phase Two", there' s a remarkable run of films.

 

[Crimson]

I am a little unsure about where each series slots in between the films, but I've a little time before I get to that point anyway.

Since you're following release order, that shouldn't be too complicated.

If you were tackling these chronologically, things would be a lot messier.

It's been less bothersome for me than I thought it might. And I say this having watched a further two films today.

If there's one lesson that comic books teach, it's to be accepting of alternate versions of characters.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Since you're following release order, that shouldn't be too complicated.

Oh brilliant. Thanks - this will be a big help when I get to Phase Four.

If there's one lesson that comic books teach, it's to be accepting of alternate versions of characters.

Ha ha. You're not wrong.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

The Incredible Hulk (2008)

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Before starting to watch the MCU, I did consider watching Ang Lee’s Hulk from five years earlier, since that gave the Hulk’s origin, but the origin shown in flashes in The Incredible Hulk is actually a different one which has more in common with the Seventies TV series than the comic book origin or the previous film.

The TV series vibe extended to the opening credits which felt very much like those of an updated ongoing TV series with a much bigger budget. Rather than take up half or a third of the film with the new origin, it’s condensed into the two and a half minutes of the opening titles, leaving the audience with the impression that they’ve missed something (indeed, I wondered if these were flashes of scenes that lay ahead in the film), while at the same time crediting us with the intelligence to assimilate the information and use it to inform what we watched. Perhaps more than any other aspect of the film these two and a half minutes capture this film’s challenging role as not just the introduction of the Hulk into the MCU but also its role of a sequel to the 2003 film AND a reboot of the franchise.

​

If Iron Man has echoes of The Six Million Dollar Man’s opening instalment, The Incredible Hulk’s debt to the series bearing its name (from the same producer as SMDM) comes through. It embraces many elements, from the more grounded origin to visual choices such as the transformation starting with a close up of the changing eyes to a cameo from Lou Ferrigno himself (who also voices Hulk 2008). Even The Lonely Man Theme which used to close that series is worked into the score at one point, and it feels right: more a heartfelt homage than a cheesy cartoony pastiche.

The TV series’ similarities to the earlier The Fugitive are also present, with Banner being on the run, constantly moving and taking on menial jobs to stay under the radar while trying to support himself, and pursued by the authorities (rather than the series’ Jack McGee, it’s Thunderbolt Ross trailing Bruce). In fact, the tone of the film has many similarities with the 1993 big screen version of The Fugitive, which is no bad thing at all.

As with Tony Stark, Ed Norton’s Bruce Banner is far more captivating than his alter ego and fortunately we spend much time with him in the course of the film. Norton is just wonderful, with a combination of intensity and vulnerability that endears him to the audience, with his fears almost tangible. He’s not exactly as I’d imagine a real-life Bruce to be, but as soon as he’s on screen there’s no doubt at all that he’s the right man for this role.

continued...​

 

[Mel O'Drama]

The Incredible Hulk

continued
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There are two nice antagonists in Thunderbolt Ross and Emil Blonsky. The layers of grey are appreciated. Just as Bruce and the Hulk are far from a clearly defined superheroic role, so is Ross not your average villain. As in all well-written stories, Ross feels what he’s doing is right and justified. Blonsky’s arc is closer to the archetypal supervillain story, but we spend a great deal of time with him before things escalate and Tim Roth keeps him interesting even when things get a little stereotypical.

As with Bruce, Emil Blonsky is far more watchable and interesting than his alter ego. The thing that drags this film down for me is the prolonged battle between the obviously CGI Hulk and Abomination which just feels like watching a video game, or a weird Pixar film. It would be lovely to say I was so invested that I didn’t even notice how fake it all looked, but actually it went on and on and on and was a bit of a chore to get through.

It’s a shame, really. I’d have happily sat through a Bruce Banner/Emil Blonsky chess match or something and this film would have ended up being top tier. I also found myself buying into earlier Hulk scenes, such as his battle with the army’s sonic devices, or the scene on the mountain where Betty calms him during the storm. Both were great. But with that last battle, there was simply no getting round the fact that it was a CGI fest and it felt fake and took me out of the film. I suspect noisy CGI battles are going to become a necessary evil for me in the MCU. They’re just not my bag and are always going to affect how I view a film.

It seems that Norton rewrote a lot of the film, making himself persona non grata with the powers that be in the process. I suspect he improved it, though the only thing I’m basing this on is that every scene in which he appeared was compeling.

In more subtle crossovers, there’s some foreshadowing going on as the Super Soldier Serum is referenced in historical terms within the film's main plot. It’s an exciting moment to those who know its significance. And a nice detail even for those who don't.

After watching Norton’s nuanced performance, Tony Stark appearing in the pre-credits scene felt a little jarring. He seemed larger than life. It felt a little like JR Ewing visiting Knots Landing. Wisely, he interacted with Thunderbolt Ross. If any character from this film was going to carry a scene like this it’s him. I’m very curious why the decision was taken to attach this scene directly to the end of the film pre-credits, rather than having it mid- or even post-credits. My only guess is that they weren’t as well-established at this point so perhaps there was some concern that people would leave cinemas as the credits rolled and miss this significant crossover.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Iron Man 2 (2010)

In many ways, this film feels like the first true MCU film. Up to this point crossovers have been more or less confined to the pre/mid/post credits scenes. This has a whole lot of super-action outside of Iron Man himself. In addition to the film’s antagonist Whiplash, there’s another force for good in Rhodey who dons the armour himself to become War Machine. And there’s the introduction of Black Widow to the MCU. Again, I enjoyed that the roles aren’t clearly defined. Rhodey is a threat to Tony’s status, while Natasha Romanoff’s loyalties are unclear for much of the time which feels right for a character who began life as a villain in the comics.


Following his post-credits scene in Iron Man, Samuel L. Jackson’s Nick Fury steps properly into the MCU with this film. It’s certainly a choice for him to be essentially the Ultimate Marvel version rather than the white, thick haired guy from Hells Kitchen version from 616 continuity. But… I really like this. A more original and different take on the character is, for me, far preferable to one that’s almost-but-not-quite identical. Perhaps it helps that I haven’t followed the character that closely. He’s probably best-known to me for his role in Spider-Woman’s early career.

All of this feels like the MCU is expanding. And there are hints of more to come. Naturally, there’s a pre-credits scene in which Tony is briefed on the Avengers Initiative (and told that while S.H.I.E.L.D. want to use Iron Man, they only want Tony as consultant) and there’s a post-credits scene in which Agent Colson finds Thor’s Mjolnir in the New Mexican desert. But in an exciting moment within the body of the film itself, Colson also holds up the half-finished replica of Cap’s shield. It’s fascinating seeing these moments in context, without either Thor or Cap having been introduced or even mentioned by name. I’ve also realised that my partner and I are having quite different experiences of watching since I get these little Easter Eggs and he doesn’t. As I write, I’ve realised it might be a good idea to highlight some of these moments as significant so he can at least partially appreciate some of the foreshadowing, even if it’s not clear what it means.

There’s certainly a lot more action in this film and it’s mostly done well. For whatever reason, the CGI around the Iron Man flight and beams work far better for me than the CGI Hulk and Abomination fight. Visually, the film looks great, too. I’d say the budget here is significantly larger than for the first film. Tony and Rhodey teaming up is also really the first of its kind and brings a joyful tone to the MCU. Especially when one throws in the Black Widow.

Don Cheadle, by the way, feels like a much better fit for Rhodey than Terrence Howard. He’s pretty much everything I’d want in a live action iteration of the character I read throughout the Eighties.

Perhaps my expectations for addressing Tony’s alcoholism had been a little high. I have read the Demon In A Bottle storyline, though as I wasn’t a regular reader of the title it’s not as sacred to me as it might be. I also knew that the MCU version would take a different route, which is fine. All the it felt a little more surface than I’d hoped for. Despite the conflict created, it didn’t feel as dark as I’d expected. All the same I did appreciate that Robert Downey was willing to show the ugly and humiliating aspect of alcohol addiction, with Tony Stark becoming the ultimate jerk. I was impressed that I could root for him while also feeling it right that Rhodey should take the mantle and kick some arse.

continued...​

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Iron Man 2

continued
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Throughout all three films, there’s been a definite theme of weaponry and skills being sought at any cost in order for them to be monetised or used for less than altruistic purposes. That continues here.

My favourite part of the entire film was the “vintage” footage of Howard Stark which looked wonderfully authentic. John Slattery, of course, comes with mid-century credibility off the back of Mad Men. I enjoyed that he looked not only like Howard, but also very much as Tony himself did in his early appearances (to this day, my go-to image of Tony is with his moustache).

Howard addressing Tony from the old video is a great moment for the film. Yes, there’s a degree of contrivance, but in this universe disbelief is already well and truly suspended, and it’s worth it for the message and the turning point.

It’s not all good news, though. Having eased us credibly into the world of fantasy with the first two films, this one elevates the super heroics. But the price of doing so is that it lacks the dark undercurrent of either of the preceding films There’s nothing in this that comes close to being as oppressively effective as Tony being held prisoner in Afghanistan, which makes this film feel less meaningful - and in turn less real - than either of its predecessors.

There’s also the matter of Justin Hammer. Firstly, I know his usual comics iteration is an older man with silver hair, but I don’t feel particularly precious about the characterisation as I don’t know him well. I’m perfectly open to him being played differently, just as Nick Fury is. But I found Sam Rockwell’s performance particularly distracting and - as the film progressed - downright annoying. I actually loathe the Jeff Goldblum/Bob Newhart/Chad Michael Murray style of trying to be aggressively naturalistic in delivery to the point that it becomes overly mannered and (ironically) extremely artificial. All the weird pauses and saying half a line and then repeating the beginning quickly became very tiresome. His inability to deliver a simple line of dialogue without messing around with it did my head in. It’s the acting equivalent of Christina Aguilera’s melisma on every line she sings. It’s unnecessary and it’s a complete turn off.

I should also throw in that I have no idea who Rockwell is. I don't remember watching him in anything else, so I went in with an open mind but came out having made a mental note to actively avoid anything in which he appears wherever possible. On the basis of his performance alone, this becomes my least favourite of the three films.

Speaking of unnecessary naturalism, there’s one very personal bugbear of mine that occurs a LOT in this film: throat clearing. I have a low tolerance for certain intrusive sounds, and anything to do with phlegmy throaty noises tops the list. Yes, everyone probably does it at some time, but it's just not something I want to see on film any more than I'd care to watch someone pooing or picking their nose. Scarlett Johansson did it twice in close succession in an early scene, and she certainly wasn’t alone. I appreciate this doesn’t have any bearing on the quality of the film, and most people probably wouldn’t even notice it, but for me the abundance of these sounds affected my enjoyment and is another key reason why I would hesitate to rewatch this one.

But - hacking or no hacking - this sequel is one flawed gem for me.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

As I go along I plan to rank the films, just for a bit of fun. Already it’s proving difficult as there are pros and cons to each.

The first Iron Man was a terrific first impression. It had a great balance of light and dark and a satisfying story beginning to end. It was perhaps of a slightly lower calibre than its sequel in terms of action, effects and scale, and also arguably had a less interesting villain than the other two films - certainly the least visually interesting. There was also the casting of Rhodey which felt off for me. But a good, well-written story goes a long way. This one covered a lot of ground, introduced many key characters in an interesting way and took some real risks along the way. Besides, I’m a sucker for a good origin story.

I think it’s clear from my review that there’s no danger of Iron Man 2 topping the list.

The Incredible Hulk was an absolutely terrific film. I thought the balance of honouring both the source material AND the TV series was incredibly well done and Ed Norton’s Bruce Banner is the most compelling, watchable and nuanced character to date as far as I’m concerned. There were also genuine threats from the various antagonists. As someone who loves character-driven drama, this film is close to perfection. Its Achilles’ Heel is the ten minute CGI fight scene which, as the concluding set piece is very difficult to overlook, much as I wish I could.



And so, with a little drumroll, here’s how the first three films rank in the O’Drama house:

1. Iron Man
2. The Incredible Hulk
3. Iron Man 2

 

[Crimson]

I suspect noisy CGI battles are going to become a necessary evil for me in the MCU. They’re just not my bag and are always going to affect how I view a film.

Oh, yes. The third act CGI slugfest is an inevitability in modern superhero films. But, around Phase Two, they at least start to get better; more creative usually or, at least, the CGI is higher quality. If early MCU has one significant flaw, its the plodding third acts.

The Incredible Hulk was an absolutely terrific film.

Well the good news is that if you liked IM2 and TIH, the rest of the MCU may be more up than down for you. Although I don't regard either of them as bad films, they are both in my bottom 10. Obviously your tastes and enjoyment may not align entirely to mine, but these two are widely regarded as among the weakest of the MCU.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

The third act CGI slugfest is an inevitability in modern superhero films. But, around Phase Two, they at least start to get better; more creative usually or, at least, the CGI is higher quality.

That's something, at least. All the same, I'll gird my loins and perhaps pop a Dramamine or two in readiness for the battles ahead.

Obviously your tastes and enjoyment may not align entirely to mine, but these two are widely regarded as among the weakest of the MCU.

Oh yes, I've deliberately avoided looking at lots of rankings ahead of time in case it influenced my perception of the films, but I've been reading up a bit on individual films afterwards and I did see that TIH one of the most poorly received. Ed Norton's performance really sold it to me, and once I'd picked up on similarities to The Fugitive I thoroughly enjoyed it. I also appreciated the nods to the TV series and I quite liked the soapy angsty stuff with Betty and Bruce (extending to their complicated relationships with Thunderbolt and Leonard Samson). If it weren't for the Hulk/Abomination stuff it would probably be in the #1 spot of the three.

As far as IM2 goes, I did find things to enjoy about it, but I have a feeling it will end up being pushed significantly down the rankings as I watch other films.

 

[Crimson]

That's something, at least. All the same, I'll gird my loins and perhaps pop a Dramamine or two in readiness for the battles ahead.

Be glad its the MCU you're watching and not the DCEU; the CGI battles in most of those films are atrocious.

And while not chess, there is a cerebral conflict to look forward to in Phase Four!

 

[darkshadows38]

when you get to Iron Man 3 (2013) a lot of people who are huge fans of the comics really were pissed at the ending of that i wasn't cause i don't know the comics that well. my guess you will Consider Iron Man (2008) to be the best of the 3 most people do i also think that's one of them but i enjoy all 3 of them to be honest.

your also find that some of them you will like more than others and that's not a bad thing i don't think

 

[DallasFanForever]

Before starting to watch the MCU, I did consider watching Ang Lee’s Hulk from five years earlier, since that gave the Hulk’s origin, but the origin shown in flashes in The Incredible Hulk is actually a different one which has more in common with the Seventies TV series than the comic book origin or the previous film.

As a huge fan of the TV series, I remember being very excited for the 2003 movie. I was hoping it might lead to another show eventually. That movie ended up disappointing me, but I do enjoy it nonetheless.

I think the 2008 movie is better, but ultimately neither movie measures up to the TV show for me. However, I do have to say that both movies did a nice job paying tribute to the show, as I was afraid this wouldn’t be the case.

a cameo from Lou Ferrigno himself (who also voices Hulk 2008).

As it should be. Maybe I’m a bit too nostalgic but he will always be the best Hulk for me.

Even The Lonely Man Theme which used to close that series is worked into the score at one point, and it feels right: more a heartfelt homage than a cheesy cartoony pastiche

The Lonely Man theme to me was a nice touch. If you watched the show back then like I did and had no choice but to catch the end credits on the stairs as you were ordered up to bed before Dallas, The Lonely Man Theme became quite relevant to your life. I was so glad the 2008 film paid tribute with it.

The thing that drags this film down for me is the prolonged battle between the obviously CGI Hulk and Abomination which just feels like watching a video game, or a weird Pixar film. It would be lovely to say I was so invested that I didn’t even notice how fake it all looked, but actually it went on and on and on and was actually a bit of a chore to get through.

I couldn’t have summed it up better. I found it all very entertaining, don’t get me wrong, but ultimately it doesn’t feel like I’m watching a movie called The Incredible Hulk. It starts to feel like something much different and I think it gets too far removed from the premise.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

And while not chess, there is a cerebral conflict to look forward to in Phase Four!

How intriguing. Could this be a Shang-Chi thing, I wonder?

when you get to Iron Man 3 (2013) a lot of people who are huge fans of the comics really were pissed at the ending of that i wasn't cause i don't know the comics that well.

Like you, I'm not overly familiar with the Iron Man comics, so hopefully that means I'll just enjoy it for what it is. Of course, that's not to say I still won't think it's terrible.

some of them you will like more than others and that's not a bad thing i don't think

Yes. I like that they have different tones and there are bound to be some with which I feel more connected. All the films so far have been enjoyable in their own ways.

I remember being very excited for the 2003 movie. I was hoping it might lead to another show eventually. That movie ended up disappointing me, but I do enjoy it nonetheless.

I think the 2008 movie is better,

It's so long since I've watched the 2003 film I've forgotten most of it. From what I've read of it I suspect I'd find plenty to enjoy if I were to watch it today.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Thor (2011)

​

My relationship with the character of Thor in the comics can be best summarised by the fact that in the early Eighties I regularly bought a British reprint comic called Thor & The X-Men… and used to completely skip past the God Of Thunder in order to get my mutant fix. Even after reading that, Thor’s section would remain unread. Such was the strength of my aversion. He’d occasionally show up in other titles I read, such as the Avengers or Marvel Team-Up and while I’d read those he simply never appealed to me.

Long story short, I was expecting this film to be something I’d watch for completion, eased by the fact that he’s played by an actor who is rather easy on the eye.

Based on what I knew of the character I understood going in that it would be quite different in tone to the three preceding films.

As the opening credits rolled, I found myself more and more impressed by the quality of some of the names both in front of the camera and behind it. Sirs Kenneth Branagh and Anthony Hopkins seemed a guarantee that the melodrama would be positively Shakespearean. And it certainly meet that expectation.

It’s difficult to pinpoint why Thor never clicked with me. There was the archaic language and the mythology of course. But that never overly bothered me with Wonder Woman. Perhaps it was a combination of this and the testosterone-fuelled machismo (I did, however, used to enjoy responses to his machismo by female Avengers). Plus the winged helmet and the lank blonde hair.

I think if I were to summarise the reason it’s because, for me, the best Marvel characters were always accessible. While DC had the beyond aspirational fantasy of their gods and aliens, Marvel characters were students who worried about money, quibbling families, outcasts who had to hide their truths. They had human failings and frailties, from blindness to alcoholism to self-doubt. Thor was of a different world. It’s also highly probable he wasn’t particularly well-written in the times I’ve encountered him.

But here’s the big surprise for me. As the first half of the film unfolded, I became invested. I felt excitement. I thoroughly enjoyed myself. And Thor became a contender for the #1 place in my ranking (more than just a contender, it actually looked like a shoo-in).

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[Mel O'Drama]

Thor​

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With the film’s grander scope and the journey from one world to another, it’s perhaps inevitable that Thor should have similarities to another well-known red-caped character. Indeed, this felt very much like Paramount does Superman, from the omniscient-but-flawed father figure to the gutsy human love interest. A scene in which Cif and the Warriors Three wander through New Mexico to gapes from onlookers before a big fight leaves devastation in their wake was very reminiscent of the villains arriving in Superman II.

Equally naturally for a film featuring gods was the underlying biblical allegory. Thor is sent to Earth by his powerful father to learn a lesson. He discovers his humanity. At a crucial moment (trying to pick up Mjölnir) he believes he’s been abandoned by his father and loses his faith. He is betrayed by a loved one, ends up briefly dying only to be restored to his full glory, save Earth and ascend.

None of this is a bad thing. It all gives the film a sense of purpose. Of course, this means it could also be argued the film is derivative. But I would say that this is less of a concern if the end product is genuinely enjoyable.

Is it a perfect film? Well, no.

In terms of enjoyment it felt very close to hitting all the right marks during the first half. But parts of the latter half of the film were less engaging for me. There’s no specific jump the shark moment or anything that’s particularly awful, but once it got past the one hundred minute mark it began to feel as though it could be leaner. The three previous films all felt significantly shorter than their actual running time. Thor is the first MCU film where I’ve checked the clock to see how long is left.

Despite finding some of the language a little off-putting when I was young, the “Methinks”es and the “By Odin’s Beard”s are an integral part of the character, and I thought some of the diction on Asgard sounded far too contemporary to my ears. I was OK with the choice to do some kind of mid-Atlantic thing with the accents, but it leaned too heavily into contemporary RP, which is something I associate with trendy London Millennials (which, indeed, actors such as Tom Hiddleston are) rather than gods. The dialogue is written by American writers and this tells in some phrases that are so part of the everyday language they’re not thought about. As an example, early in the film Thor told Loki something along the lines that he wanted to be alone “right now”, which just isn’t how I’d imagine him speaking. It’s a tiny detail, but one that the pedant in me found a little bothersome. That said, actors such as Sir Anthony, Idris Elba, Colm Feore and Rene Russo got it absolutely spot-on.

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