• Support tellytalk.net with a contribution of any amount

    Dear Telly Talkers. Every so often we ask for your support in the monthly running costs of the forum. You don't have to contribute... it's totally your choice.

    The forums are advert-free, and we rely on donations to pay for the monthly hosting and backup costs. Your contribution could also go towards forum upgrades to maintain a robust experience and stop down time.

    Donations are not to make a profit, they are purely put towards the forum.

    Every contribution is really appreciated. These are done via the UltimateDallas PayPal account using the donation button.

Dallas Character Which "new" character was the most well-written?

Rove

Telly Talk Champion
LV
0
 
Messages
4,787
Reaction score
7,932
Awards
5
Location
Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia
I'm going to select a different character here and choose Drew (Kuno Becker). Many here know of my feelings towards the Ramos family however when I look back I think Drew was an interesting character bordering on good/bad. And Kuno played it really well.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
LV
0
 
Messages
2,672
Reaction score
1,581
Awards
2
Location
Maryland
That's all very nice, but what you're saying is, my opinion doesn't count because it simply stuns you that I have a different opinion to you.

I didn't say that. I said exactly what I wrote. What's the process you went through to determine that because I pointed out that there are some objective standards, I was saying your opinion doesn't count?
 

Ome

Admin
LV
14
 
Messages
14,513
Solutions
2
Reaction score
29,437
Awards
31
I didn't say that.
Ah, forgive me, I used the wrong word. It should read "That's all very nice, but what you're implying is, my opinion doesn't count because it simply stuns you that I have a different opinion to you".



I got the impression by using the term 'stun' that the opinion was so wrong it would shock someone. That's how I took it, nothing more, nothing less.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
LV
0
 
Messages
2,672
Reaction score
1,581
Awards
2
Location
Maryland
Ah, forgive me, I used the wrong word. It should read "That's all very nice, but what you're implying is, my opinion doesn't count because it simply stuns you that I have a different opinion to you".



I got the impression by using the term 'stun' that the opinion was so wrong it would shock someone. That's how I took it, nothing more, nothing less.

Oh, now I understand what is going on. Maybe "stun" wasn't the best choice of words. It would have been more accurate to say I was surprised, or very surprised.

I meant "very surprised." Being very surprised in itself isn't a value judgement. There was nothing in my post designed to make anyone think that I was making a negative value judgement. I believe you really do like TNT Dallas and think it's up to the standard of the original. I don't think that's a bad thing. In my experience here, I only recall one other person who seemed to think TNT Dallas is that good, so it's something that comes along so infrequently that it's a rarity. Something rare isn't a negative or a positive by definition, but the more rare something is, the more surprising it is to find it.
 

Ome

Admin
LV
14
 
Messages
14,513
Solutions
2
Reaction score
29,437
Awards
31
There was nothing in my post designed to make anyone think that I was making a negative value judgement.


Many things fascinate me and language along with various cultures around the world are up there in my ever-increasing list which is what I love about Soap Chat.


We all communicate through text and our version of the language, we all more or less understand each other, however, sometimes the text we use, or the phrases we highlight can have varying effects on each other. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between someone trolling the forums or genuinely interested in a particular subject.

I then wonder if many of us really understand how we come across to others. I question if I come across too sarcastic, or maybe I give a vibe that I'm kinda stupid because I rattle on too much. Maybe I come across like I run the place, or that my opinion is more superior to someone else. I also wonder if the word 'admin' makes me appear as some weird guy who loves to lord it over everyone. Maybe I just come across simple, funny, kinda right (most of the time) or just a pain that annoys others.

I'm pretty sure that I must have upset some members along the way by my posting style, or constant need to question everything, hell both my wife and daughter get annoyed by all the questions I ask with everything.


Anyway, that's a whole different thread and I'm rattling on about myself which is not what I planned when I first jumped into this thread and derailed it. I suppose I could just delete this post and leave it that, but I'm not into wasting computer ink so here it is and I'm suggesting we take the thread back to what it was intended to be since we've now found a reasonable solution to my query.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
LV
0
 
Messages
2,672
Reaction score
1,581
Awards
2
Location
Maryland
Anyway, that's a whole different thread and I'm rattling on about myself which is not what I planned when I first jumped into this thread and derailed it.

Whether it's derailing or not, it's a valid subject. I won't go way into this because I don't want to derail either, but face it: When we take all of our potential to communicate with people - our tone of voice, our vocal inflections, our volume of speech, our facial expressions, and our body language and we condense all of that into little letters of black and white, a lot gets lost!
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
LV
0
 
Messages
2,672
Reaction score
1,581
Awards
2
Location
Maryland
But overall, I loved the whole thing. Despite its faults, I was so happy to see it back and with so many of the original actors and characters. I thought the way they wrote Cliff was closer to my kind of satisfaction in how he morphed into the character he became. I loved the SE/JR scenes as well as the SE/John Ross scenes. New characters like Emma, Judith, Harris and DRew as well as the brilliant Pamela Rebecca. We didn't get enough Ray, Lucy, Gary and Val stuff but I was grateful for what we got and I accepted that this was around 20 years later so not everyone would still be on the scene.

In an effort to get things back on topic, I looked through some of the earlier posts, and came across your above statement about what they did with Cliff. That's interesting to me because while I didn't like what they did with Cliff's character when TNT Dallas first aired, now I find myself thinking: yes, the Cliff they showed was very different, but it's very possible that with his constant bitterness and thirst for vengeance that those things could have really eaten away at his soul until he became the evil Cliff of TNT. We missed twenty years of seeing him make that transformation and I think that might be what shocked people, or even saddened them, but isn't possible that as a man who continually allowed negative thoughts to consume him, that what we saw would have been the end result?

I think it ties in with with the subject of the thread because while Cliff may not have been the character I thought was best written, my estimation of the way he was written in TNT is now much higher than it was. I still think Harris Ryland was the best written because I found him interesting and I found his actions to make sense based on the mindset of the character they had created. He was a dangerous adversary for the Ewings and that's critical for Dallas. If their adversaries don't pose any genuine threat, then how dramatic is that? Harris seemed to be a genuine threat and especially to how he could affect Ann's emotions. Harris continually manipulated Ann's emotions through Emma.

One thing I loved about original Dallas was that their main cast of characters all had some bad and some good in them with some having a lot more of one than the other. It was my perception that in TNT Dallas they often took away the good qualities a character had and just left the bad qualities, or at least diminished the good qualities while maintaining or even increasing the bad qualities. In original Dallas JR was a character with a lot of bad qualities, but it made JR ever so much more interesting because he did have good qualities as well!

I found JR's best quality to be how good of a father he was and the great relationship he had with John Ross. If TNT had just wanted to change that and have their relationship deteriorate that would have been one thing, an artistic choice. They did something else though; they tried to change Dallas history refusing to acknowledge JR being a good father and having a good relationship with John Ross, and went as far in rewriting Dallas history with things John Ross said about JR and JR even saying he'd failed John Ross as a father. We know what we saw!

It's an example of what I saw as TNT's fascination with removing or at least diminishing the positive qualities and amplifying the negative qualities of very well established characters. I loved the original show's balance of good and bad qualities in characters, of showing happiness and unhappiness, the light and dark, the hope and the fear. I was very disappointed that I didn't see that in TNT Dallas.
 

Ray&Donna

Telly Talk Star
LV
0
 
Messages
2,683
Reaction score
2,740
Awards
5
Location
Kentucky, USA
Member Since
January 2006
Harris was the most consistent until his mother showed up and we found out that she was the Man behind the curtain, but overall, the show always felt closer in tone, to one of the reunion movies, than the series, with a few Ewings and a bunch of people I didn't care about
 

Billy Wall

Telly Talk TV Fanatic
LV
0
 
Messages
1,515
Reaction score
3,877
Awards
6
Location
Buffalo, NY
Many characters had moments that were good, but not a single one including JR, Bobby and Sue Ellen in my opinion were any good. They didn’t fit the original, were even more of the later years (prior to the “dream”) soap opera caricatures. Ann as a strong woman seemed good to start but then fell through. Pamela changed every few episodes into another character. Elena turned into a pompous ass who called out everyone for their wrongs while she sinned at every turn. John Ross and Christopher were weak as water. Sue Ellen went back to drinking. Bobby was an old, bitter fart. And don’t get me started on “momma likes.” They had so much potential but seemed to me they were determined that no one was going to come out “on top.” I honestly did think any character was consistently well written.

The one thing that hot on my last nerve with Bobby is his constantly telling John Ross “you’re not half the man your daddy was.”

Did Bobby remember who his brother was? Lol
 

stevew

Telly Talk Star
LV
1
 
Messages
2,558
Reaction score
1,726
Awards
7
Location
Michigan
Member Since
Jan 2012
The one thing that hot on my last nerve with Bobby is his constantly telling John Ross “you’re not half the man your daddy was.”

Did Bobby remember who his brother was? Lol

Well put.

a good response, “You know, neither are you,” to his Uncle.
 

stevew

Telly Talk Star
LV
1
 
Messages
2,558
Reaction score
1,726
Awards
7
Location
Michigan
Member Since
Jan 2012
I can't call Julie Grey a gigolo because a gigolo, by definition is male. Julie Grey was a traitorous, loose woman of ill-repute. Julie Grey would be a horrible choice for a young woman to have for a role model. If Julie had any good qualities, I don't remember them at the moment. The worst woman of all on Dallas of course was Rebecca Barnes, a woman who committed acts so evil as to be almost unspeakable. Pam sealed her fate when she chose to go looking for Rebecca because she ended up unleashing the malevolent forces of Rebecca and Katherine on herself as well as other innocents. By the time Rebecca's demon spawn, Katherine was dead, she had not only written a letter contributing to Pam and Bobby divorcing, but had gone on to murder the only man Pam ever truly loved and the father of their son Christopher.

It wouldn't be OK if anyone shot Julie Grey. It's my philosophical belief that human life is sacred. Shooting is only justifiable in self-defense situations where death or serious bodily harm is imminent.




If you are perplexed over this it's because you have missed huge portions of what I've written and have come to the erroneous conclusion that I see JR as having no flaws or defects of character. It's unfortunate that you missed or misunderstood what I wrote about JR because I have a phenomenally good understanding of his character. If you're truly interested, I will look for some posts I've written which make that self-evident. Please understand that may take several days as I've got a lot on my plate right now.

As for alcoholism being a disease: Cancer is a disease. Being a drunk, or if you prefer, a lush, is a behavior. One of my wife's best friends died 7 years ago because of cancer. It wasn't because she engaged in a behavior that was bad for her and it wasn't because she refused to get treatment. Our friend would have given anything to hear from the doctor: "You will live if you just stop engaging in self-destructive behavior"! Had she merely been a lush, she could have gone to a treatment center for alcoholics and after 30 or 90 days there, could have returned home in far better health. With cancer, no such option exists. You don't get to "make your disease go away" just by stopping doing something. It's hardly fair to use the word "disease" for such distinctly different things as cancer and drinking too much. Terminal cancer patients would literally give anything to be in Sue Ellen's situation instead of having terminal cancer.



They're your favorite couple but you think one deserved to be murdered by the other? If I had a favorite couple, I can assure you I would not wish for one of them to do any harm at all to the other. You and I have very different ways of thinking.

While there is medical debate as to whether alcoholism is a disease, unless you are a medical professional, your opinion of the use of the word is inappropriate in my opinion. In our world today, too many people take an anti intellectual stance and behave as if all reality is subject to their personal opinion. While disease is a word used in everyday speech, it has a specific and defined medical use. Currently the American Medical Association lists alcoholism as a disease (I believe so does the WHO for those outside of the USA).

Broadly disease is a term meaning a condition that impairs normal functioning. Alcoholism certainly does that.

As for how to “cure” it and how one obtains it, this is still in the realm for medical debate and seems dangerous when non-medical professionals speak in such definitive terms as your post seemed to.

Id also argue that alcoholism from my perspective it isn’t just life style choices. While you might not have meant such, you explanation seems to blame the person (which is where those who agree with your use of the term believes it belongs). Yet you ignore the behavioral choices which also can lead to cancer and all non-heredity diseases (and some would argue behavior choices cause hereditary diseases as well but then we get into eugenics). This is a very slippery slope but some choose it to apply when personal responsibility seems to fit their political bent and not uniformly (such as choices leading to cancer). Though I will say I’ve near heard your “cure” explanation before as to what denotes a disease.

In practice from my observation it is not so simple as to say stop drinking or go into a program for 30-90 days and you’re done with it. Not that I’m a medical expert, but it often appears to me alcoholism goes along with other diseases leading the way, such as depression. There are hereditary factors as well which have been identified, like with cancer. I don’t won’t to dive too deep into this because again I’m not a medical intellectual but I can read the AMA and the last time I looked it was listed as a disease. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Having said all that, there does seem to be a great deal of support for your opinion within the medical community, maybe even a majority (I won’t dive into the rational as again this is not my field). But until the AMA changes is position statements such as yours should make note that this is your opinion and while backed by some medical professionals, it is not the definitive (as in the highest authoritative sources such as the AMA) understanding. Posts which declare it a disease wouldn’t have the same responsibility because definitive sources do agree with them (at least for the time being).
 
Top