Alice (TV series)

[ClassyCo]

Alice was an immensely popular show during its heyday. It ran for nine seasons, from 1976 to 1985, spending seven of those years in the top thirty of the Nielsen ratings. The series was based on the award-winning 1974 film Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, although a number of the movie's plot points were tweaked to fit the sitcom format.

When I first started watching old television shows, my parents often mentioned Alice to me, but strangely they always referenced the show as Mel's Diner, the name of the little greasy spoon that served as the primary setting. After watching a lot of the show myself, I can honestly say that Mel's Diner was probably a better title overall, although it would mislead the viewer that Mel would be the central character.

The television series Alice is what I've heard a radio host call "a catchphrase show". Polly Holliday played the sassy Flo, and her "Kiss my grits!" saying enjoyed great popularity during her time on the show. So popular was Holliday on the show that she was given her own short-lived spin-off called Flo. When Diane Ladd came in to replace her, her character Belle would often exclaim, "Butter my biscuits!" Mel was forever saying "Stow it!" to one of the girls, and sometimes the customers. I absolutely adore Beth Howland as Vera. She's hilarious and she appeared to be a genuinely sweet lady.

My least favorite is actually Linda Lavin as Alice. She was alright, but it all usually boiled down to her singing somehow. I'm aware that I'm over-exaggerating Alice's singing on the show, but it seemed like it was all the time to me.

What's your thoughts on this show?

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[Daniel Avery]

I got to see the reruns of this series about a year ago after it languished in syndication limbo for decades. Sometimes a popular show like this just gets lost in the shuffle somehow and doesn't get rerun as much as others who might not even have been as popular. I remember liking it a lot in its original run, but watching the reruns (knowing now what I did not know then) made it even more interesting.

When the show premiered, it was supposed to be about Alice being a single widow raising her son. Phillip McKeon had second billing in the credits. As time distanced them from the movie that inspired the series, it became a more typical workplace comedy where Tommy became a supporting character, and toward the end of the series he was barely there (not appearing in many episodes). I'm sure the popularity of Flo (their breakout character) had a lot to do with the de-emphasis on the single, struggling widow aspect. I recall us kids running around the playground telling others to 'kiss my grits' not having the foggiest idea what it meant--it just sounded funny and of course got huge laughs on TV. I also recall how bad Flo's spin-off was, and despite it having good ratings it got the hook after only a season or so....and Flo didn't come back to Alice after its cancellation. Which was probably too bad, because I recall reading how Diane Ladd (Belle) hated being on the show and couldn't hit the door fast enough. I liked Jolene (her replacement) almost as much as Flo, but for different reasons, of course.

The show lasted long enough to hit that point where episodes had exceptionally thin plotlines, but could "coast" on the likeability and chemistry of its stars. They probably could have ended it a bit earlier, but sometimes a series (especially sitcoms for some reason) becomes like a weekly visit with friends, where a storyline isn't essential for a viewer to feel entertained.

I may have mentioned this elsewhere, but there were some 'logistics' of the show that made me scratch my head. Most importantly, it appeared that Mel's Diner consisted of two booths, two tables, and a "bar" that seated five people at most. How do three women live off tips from that tiny number of seats? Are we to assume that they're each covering the equivalent of two tables all day?

 

[Seaviewer]

Alice I think suffered by comparison with The Mary Tyler Moore Show as a female-centered workplace comedy but It was one of my favourites.
I'm not sure how many seasons in it was when all the supporting characters got last names but it was quite a shock when they suddenly started using them as though they'd always been there.

 

[Crimson]

got to see the reruns of this series about a year ago after it languished in syndication limbo for decades.

I have, on very rare and random occasions, found myself wondering "Whatever happened to ALICE?" I have dim memories of watching it in syndication as a kid, but have not seen it turn up since, at least, the mid-80s; I don't recall it even making into rotation during the heyday of Nick-At-Night. For a show of such duration and success, its disappearance was curious.

My own recollections of the show are negligible. I recall someone -- I assume Vera -- getting hit in the face with straws and, for some reason, I remember guest stars (George Burns; Martha Raye) more than the main cast.

 

[Daniel Avery]

For a show set out in the 'hinterlands' (Phoenix--might as well be the Moon to Hollywood people), they had more than their share of big-name guest stars. I think part of it might be because several of the show-runners were well-known around Old Hollywood--all the way back to being writers and/or producers on I Love Lucy.

One of the shots from the opening credits that survived from the pilot to the end of the series (I think) had Vera being startled by something and an armload of straws flying up theatrically. It sort of encapsulated her character as being a ditz (or "dingy chick" as Mel referred to her). They changed the opening credits virtually every season, so that one clip being re-used every season was rare.

Beth Howland was married to Charles Kimbrough (Jim Dial from Murphy Brown) for many years and despite sitcom fame were very private people. When Howland passed away, it was many months before the public even knew. Another bizarre death surrounding the show was Charles Levin, who played Vera's policeman husband in the last few seasons. He was driving through a wooded area in Oregon when he got some car trouble or got lost. When he went to find help, he fell into a ravine and was there for some time before his body was found, having been 'scavenged' by the animals.

 

[tommie]

I find it interesting because I don't remember hearing about this series at all, yet it lasted nine seasons! It's sort of fascinating when something leaves little to no cultural impact, despite obviously being popular and on television for a long time.

 

[Willie Oleson]

It's sort of fascinating when something leaves little to no cultural impact

 

[Crimson]

I watched some clips of ALICE on Youtube tonight and think I answered my own question about why the show vanished: it doesn't seem to have been very good. I wouldn't go so far as to call the show bad, but the clips -- from the first four seasons -- fell somewhere between pleasantly amusing and mildly grating. The best thing I can say is that the show had the decency to not have an obnoxiously loud laugh track that was out-of-proportion to its slim humor.

I found both Flo and especially Vera to be a tad annoying; I suspect I would grow weary of both characters very quickly. On the other hand, I rather liked Linda Lavin's earthy drollness as Alice.

 

[Daniel Avery]

Oh, I agree it was never going to be mistaken for Masterpiece Theater, but it was pleasant enough, and you grew to like the characters enough that you overlooked occasionally thin plots. I guess I can say we didn't demand "greatness" in all our TV favorites in that time--as long as it was entertaining, that was sometimes enough to make a show a success.

Jokes came from familiar places. There were the expected jokes about the diner's lousy food (and Mel's grumpy retorts). Vera's absent-mindedness became downright stupidity as the series wore on. Flo, Belle, and Jolene all served as the "funniest waitress," with wacky stories about their families and/or dates. Mel was the typical grumpy boss who hid how much he really liked his waitresses, and they often used his being 'cheap' to fuel typical stories about one of the waitresses needing a raise he doesn't want to give, etc. Alice (as the lead) seemed to be the straight man (woman) of the piece, so her jokes were more sarcastic reactions to the wackiness that surrounded her. I think they relied more on chemistry than originality, but sometimes chemistry is more than some otherwise well-written/produced shows can muster.

 

[TJames03]

The fact that everyone hated each other adds to the show for me!!!

 

[stevew]

The fact that everyone hated each other adds to the show for me!!!

I didn’t see that. Can you explain?

 

[stevew]

I grew up watching it. Tommy was a few years older than me and I remember buying clothes like his and wanting my hair like his (my mom wouldn’t go for long hair). I think it was the comfort and chemistry that the show provided at the time. Flo, Belle, Jolene all played into that country type of the time, like Dukes of Hazard, and Alice was an ideal mother trying to work and raise her kid in her own at at times where that was becoming common place, even among married women, and then these’s something about a diner/bar type place where everybody knows your name that we all wanted to have. So it was just a nice place to be once a week. Oh and Alice was always trying to make it big in show business - that’s the true American Dream, to make it big. I do miss Alice and Tommy in a way I’d only miss old neighbors.

 

[Crimson]

I guess I can say we didn't demand "greatness" in all our TV favorites in that time

Yes, I can see that. I think American TV, for decades, mostly offered comfortable predictability rather than quality. (On rare occasions, you'd get both.) A decade or so of what's now known as "prestige TV" has made it hard for me to get back into the groove of cozy mediocrities.

 

[TJames03]

I didn’t see that. Can you explain?

Lavin’s monster behavior is very well-known. That’s why both Holliday and Ladd left the show. Holliday even warned Ladd about LL. Notice how abruptly Ladd was written out? There was a weird goodbye scene over the phone with Ladd in a phone booth and that’s it.

 

[TJames03]

 

[TJames03]

 

[TJames03]

 

[TJames03]

 

[TJames03]

These are just a few things online about the feud.

“It was only when Polly was given a spinoff that Linda became enraged with jealousy and accused Polly of using her. It's been said punches were thrown back stage during a Jerry Lewis telethon. Ultimately they went their separate ways and still avoid each other.”

“I have a friend who’s an actress who worked with Linda Lavin off broadway, and she said Linda Lavin was just the fucking worst, a total bitch and an absolute nightmare to work with- and that’s coming from someone who worked with Kim Basinger. I’ve never met the lady so I couldn’t swear it’s gospel, but Sophie’s worked with a lot of people- Robert Sean Leonard, Jerry Orbach-Natalie Portman, Edward Albee- and I’ve never really heard her say anything bad about anyone. Except Linda Lavin.”

 

[TJames03]

“I don’t know if she herself said anything about her relationship with Linda Lavin, but it was a well-known fact that Lavin felt upstaged — and naturally so: her own acting was merely passable and her singing subpar. First, she had to contend with the greater popularity of Polly Holliday, as Flo, and then she was confronted by the fact that the producers had hired Diane Ladd, a highly accomplished actress who made her look mediocre at best. Linda Lavin was, by all accounts, a nasty piece of work. She made the situation on the set so intolerable that she once reduced Diane Ladd to tears.”