Almost 7 million watched the June 13th, 2012 premiere and .............

[stevew]

I agree with you, this particular episode would have been a little too abstract so early on in this series.
But the off-beat vibe was already strongly represented in its first season (e.g. the 5 minutes talking pillow intervention).
Either way, my point wasn't about the Fly Episode or how it connects or doesn't connect to Dallas. I meant to say that Breaking Bad and many other series is more than just a concept.
And maybe that's also what allows a soap opera to be more than just a soap opera, if they're willing to make an effort.
It's all those many things that would get lost in translation if you'd put it on paper (or computer screen).

After I had watched the 2017 movie MOTHER! I read the reviews and the concept was explained to me. I thought, wow, that's really clever, but it didn't make me like the movie more.
I had taken it at face value and loved every minute of it. If anything, the explanation took a little bit away from that unique and personal experience.


I didn't know that, and it surprises me. Or maybe not, considering that Dynasty hardly surived their first season.

Oh it's not just about disagreement. It's also the conversation itself and sharing opinions. It often helps me to understand my own thoughts.
Always look on the bright side of disagreement

I think one the worst things they could have done is trying to "fix" that complicated relationship.
Reconciliations in soaps usually don't (and probably shouldn't) last very long. Great soap is like a dance between plot development (no matter how far-fetched) and character drama, and personally I feel that's what we got from Sue Ellen and John Ross.
View attachment 29098

Pity you didn't mention Sue Ellen acknowledging her disease after the Southfork fire. That wasn't only a payoff for TNT Dallas but also the entire journey of this iconic TV character.
First you got the thrill of the fire itself and right after that the emotional confrontations in the hospital.
Sometimes it works to give certain storylines closure - Knots Landing did that very well - but for the main cast it's more effective when a storyline morphes into the next one. It's a soap and it needs to go on and on.

I'm not saying "fix" it. I'm saying address it.

I didn't mention it, but it was another missed pay off for me. Yes she mentioned it and I liked how they handled it, but then what? An attempt to speak to John Ross an "f - you mamma" and Sue Ellen saying, "I understand." A John Ross in Bobby's face, "Stay away from my momma." A Sue Ellen saying, "He's right, you were wrong to interfere." A good blip in drama only reminds me of what the rest could have been. It wasn't enough to make up for the rest, to me. I also wouldn't call it closure. There is not closure to such a story line - it is a life long battle. So, I had no problem with Sue Ellen drinking again (though it's not something I wanted to see, I was ok with them going there), but if you commit then stick to it. That's my opinion.

 

[Jabari Lamar]

Thanks in part to the Netflix deal. Without it The CW Dynasty would not be on air.

Which I believe is part of @Caproni's point. The landscape of television has changed drastically in the relatively short time since DallasTNT debuted, series are not always as dependent on the traditional network ratings model, there are a lot more options for a show to find an audience. If DallasTNT had similar deal, either with Netflix or some other streaming site, perhaps it could have lasted longer. or at least found a new home for a final fourth season to wrap things up. We could be watching it on Paramount Plus, or Peacock, or Epix or some other little channel today.

 

[kcmimichar]

When the new showrunner was informed to ignore the reunion movies, they weren't kidding. It was if time had stood still still from the moment we hear the gunshot in "Conundrum" and Bobby enters JR's bedroom and exclaims, "Oh my God!"

I would have started the continuation with JR in a position of power rather than weakness. It tells the audience the old bastard is still with us but what dirty deeds has he been up to for the past 14 years. The new showrunner was lead to believe the continuation was about the next generation but I suspect many were itching to see good 'ole JR.

Larry Hagman and JR were the show.

 

[kcmimichar]

But I think character driven drama is what made the original Dallas work so well. The only reason why those original cliffhangers were so effective was because you cared about the characters.

With Dallas TNT, too much was happening at once so it felt unrealistic. Bad stuff kept happening but never got any good pay off or follow up. As a result I stopped caring about the characters and just sat there and rolled my eyes at yet another plot twist, because I knew it would be swept under the rug and it would be like it never happened at all two episodes from there. There was no pay off from the dramatic set ups and cliffhangers.

I think Linda Gray agreeing with you. I believe she had said there were too many stories going on.

 

[Karin Schill]

I really wish they hadn't cut Linda's scenes in season one. Big mistake!

 

[kcmimichar]

I really wish they hadn't cut Linda's scenes in season one. Big mistake!

Whoever decided to cut the deleted scenes is a fool. A bigger fool is anyone who thought people would want to see more of the new character as opposed to JR and Sue Ellen.

 

[stevew]

Bad writing. The characters lacked depth and the storylines were moving too fast and had too great focus on crime drama over family drama. They also wrecked up all the couples which made it hard to root for any of them. There were too many silly plot stunts (threesome, murders etc) and cartoonish characters (Mama Ryland). The writers clearly didn't know the original Dallas well enough or even cared about it enough to write a proper continuation of it. They also dangled the Pam might return carrot in front of people's noses for two seasons only to say she's been dead all along. That together with destroying Pamela Rebecca & John Ross' marriage at the end of season two had viewers tune out in droves right at the beginning of season three.

Just my two cents.

Couldn’t have said it better.

 

[kcmimichar]

Couldn’t have said it better.

I still wonder if Larry,Linda, Patrick, and even Ken regretted doing it.

 

[Sarah]

I still wonder if Larry,Linda, Patrick, and even Ken regretted doing it.

No. Linda Larry and Patrick certainly didn't. It gave them the chance to work together again and Larry died playing JR 'one last time'.

 

[kcmimichar]

No. Linda Larry and Patrick certainly didn't. It gave them the chance to work together again and Larry died playing JR 'one last time'.

Yes. I guess the "good" thing is Larry died playing the part he loved.

 

[Sarah]

Yes. I guess the "good" thing is Larry died playing the part he loved.

I can confidently say that Linda Gray and Larry Hagman would NEVER regret doing anything together. And I believe that goes for Patrick too.

 

[kcmimichar]

I can confidently say that Linda Gray and Larry Hagman would NEVER regret doing anything together. And I believe that goes for Patrick too.

So true. Larry and Linda were really each other's best friend from the beginning.

 

[stevew]

The more I think about it, the more I lean toward a reboot - modern times, different location, same concept of a wealthy family drama. I just can't see going back to what was and continuing after such a mess on the one hand, and such a great experience on the other, seeing Sue Ellen and JR in full love / hate mode and then loosing JR.

Plus for me, the story really ends way back when BBG was replaced by DR. Pam and Christopher have left Dallas, Clayton and Miss Ellie are gone as well, on an extended honeymoon, Katherine is rejected, Cliff is drunk and defeated but maybe not with his oil strike and Afton has left him, Donna is raring to take on JR, and Bobby lies on the floor - dead or alive? Yes there are moments after that which were good, really good, but to me the story ends there.

If TNT had JR turn around in the show from the very beginning to reveal it all had been a dream and that Bobby recovered only and later to supposedly have died in a car hit and run to realign with Knots Landing, and everything else was a dream: Pam's dream season, seasons 9-14, two movies (and the TNT which wouldn't have happened). In 2012, I'd have laughed and been happy to watch what comes next. Maybe JR built his Empire and settled down with Sue Ellen into the roles of his father and mother at Southfork (certainly not remodeled) having lost Bobby. Maybe they had more children, now grown: 1) John Ross comes home married to Pamela Barnes, 2) Aaron is working for the business as JR sets out to retire, bisexual and sleeping with everyone in town and married to the granddaughter of the Andersons and 3) Ellie, well, she's JR's daughter, sleeping with a ranch hand, plotting how she can replace her father in controlling his billion dollar empire. Donna as the governor with Ray by her side as First Gentleman. Then we begin with Bobby returning, after years in a comma, assumed dead and living with Pam and then years recouping. Bobby returns much like his Uncle Garrison did, throwing a wrench in the works of the family, except with Christopher by his side, Pam refusing to return to Dallas. Now what does JR do, faced with retirement, old enemies like Cliff and Wendell and even Lucy, and now Bobby showing up. He has a lifetime of sins to account for, and three children to get ready to face the world without him one day (as it turns out, sooner than we expected).

But as that didn't happen, maybe another shower scene. This time Sue Ellen turns around, only to realize that JR isn't there. She realizes he has died and all those years in between had been a dream to hold onto him, the DR tenure, Pam's dream season, seasons 9-14, two movies and TNT, all a dream. Bobby had died when Katherine shot him in his office (to align with Knots Landing, not sure if they mentioned how he died) and sometime later Katherine shot and killed JR as well. Miss Ellie and Clayton left Dallas later to pass away, Pamela had a nervous breakdown and has been in an institution for decades and Sue Ellen has raised both boys and a daughter, Ellie, whom she was pregnant with at the time JR was killed. Now those children face the pending death of Sue Ellen and she wants to leave them better off, not fighting.

Well anyway, many not, maybe a reboot is just the way to go from here, IF there's to be any such thing. But I really don't want it to close to the original. I want the song, and the layout of the house (though the exterior can be different), and I want the business, something to do with energy, and I want a farm of some sort, a mother and father retiring, and their two boys and granddaughter living with them and the name Ewing and South Fork and the theme music.

 

[stevew]

You have nailed it with that comment because the trailer for TNT Dallas tells us what to expect...

It showed the important things; JR, Bobby, Sue Ellen, John Ross, Christopher and a glimpse of Ray and Lucy. And Bobby's opening dialogue is everything I could have hoped for. "All those fights over Ewing Oil and Southfork...."

How this trailer had me salivating my favourite series of all time was returning to the small screen.​

Thinking about it, this is true - this is what made Dallas. Yes it was a family drama, like many family dramas, but the fighting for position, something which is a common theme in many families, real and fictional, took it to a new level when we had a house/ranch and a business to add to the mix. The fighting became epic and we couldn't get enough. JR: I'm the oldest son to follow my father, my mother has to leave me the family ranch as I'm the oldest Southworth, my brothers should look up to me and follow what I tell them, my wife should be perfect in beauty, breeding and linage and my son follow in my foot steps, and they should all love me and let me do what I have to do to make us rich. My father betrays me by brining in Bobby, my mother needs to be protect, even from herself, my brothers are all weak and selfish, my wife doesn't love me, she only married me for my money, my son's ungrateful. In that we had a drama of a family and those that interacted with them.

TNT was NOT that in the least. Who the hell are the Ramos's and why should I care? John Ross, a poor pathetic brat who women use for his looks, his body a shoulder to cry on when their love dumps him, but he could care less about his mother, father, uncle, grandmother . . . . . Christopher, a self entitled brat who things everything should be his and as it turns out so does his father. This isn't a dysfunctional family - it wasn't even a family any more. I felt more family bonds between Judith, Harris and Emma than I saw among the Ewing's (well maybe a basketball game behind the garage).