But if we HAD to re-cast Miss Ellie...

[Snarky Oracle!]

Would Howard Keel's pal, Nancy Olson, have been a better pick? (I've sometimes wondered how well Bel Geddes might have done in Olson's role in SUNSET BLVD).

 

[Pandora]

I never thought Donna Reed did a bad job. I do not believe the fan base was going to accept any actress as Miss Ellie.

 

[Richard Channing]

Would Howard Keel's pal, Nancy Olson, have been a better pick? (I've sometimes wondered how well Bel Geddes might have done in Olson's role in SUNSET BLVD).

View attachment 55258

I don't know much about her but certainly looks wise she fits the bill. Much less jarring then Donna Reed.

I'm also seeing a little Karen Fairgate. She could have been a good candidate for her mother.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I never thought Donna Reed did a bad job. I do not believe the fan base was going to accept any actress as Miss Ellie.

Donna Reed was a lovely Oscar-winner, but if she had been the first actress cast as Miss Ellie, and Robert Foxworth as J.R., DALLAS would never have been a smash hit.

 

[Seaviewer]

Yes, I've suggested Nancy Olson before, after seeing her in Paper Dolls.

 

[Rove]

I know nothing of Nancy Olson so looked on youtube for any reference to her acting. A snippet of her appearance in an old television series named Police Surgeon popped up. I can certainly see similar mannerisms and style to Barbara Bel Geddes acting, more so than Donna Reed. However, after cementing her role as Miss Ellie I'm afraid I can see no one else playing her except Barbara Bel.

That was just an unfortunate situation thrust upon Barbara Bel and Donna Reed. I'd love to know who signed off on that debacle. They should have been fired.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

That was just an unfortunate situation thrust upon Barbara Bel and Donna Reed. I'd love to know who signed off on that debacle. They should have been fired.

Just as the producers were quickly cutting back Donna Reed's scenes because those scenes weren't working, Lorimar extended her contract by two more years. So there seemed to be a lack of sufficient communication between somebody and somebody.

Even Howard Keel recommended Olson for Miss Ellie. But executives aren't always interested in "making it work" or avoiding disasters. (Why else would someone believe Emma Samms would be a natural re-cast for Pamela Sue Martin when numerous other actresses could hit a more similar note??)

Executives seem to make wildly destructive, high-handed decisions that wind up leaving the actors and sometimes writers to scramble around in an effort to fix it. The audience forced to endure it until their favorite show is gone, literally or essentially.

When one element slides, everything slides.

41 years ago, when I first heard in the press that they were re-casting Miss Ellie, I couldn't believe. And I still can't believe it -- although, objectively, I realize what's going on in Ukraine & Gaza is worse.

At least, if they brought in Nancy Olson, as Keel suggested and had someone listened to him, then the damage might have been minimized. But Lorimar probably thought they wanted "a star" and Nancy Olson was just a working actress. (Even though Philip Capice had recently said he "hoped DALLAS would never resort to that kind of stunt casting" regarding some hiring choice DYNASTY had made).

But even in summer 1984, this decision would mark the-beginning-of-the-end for DALLAS -- even though everybody sensed that the series had just reached its mid-point. (Larry Hagman's real-life mom, Mary Martin, called the decision to re-cast Miss Ellie a "kooky" choice to occur "mid-way through" the program).

And then for the brass to choose an actress of totally different demeanor, countenance and appearance, when someone else is available who might make a better option is available, is just nuts.

But execs like to say "yes" and "no" with a wave of the hand. Damn the consequences they probably won't be impacted by at all, other than the need to offer some weak, disingenuous press statement later once there's some blow-up in the media. What do they care when they ruin the product? They're always off onto some new project anyway.


"Get that phony bitch out of my house...!"

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I know nothing of Nancy Olson so looked on youtube for any reference to her acting. A snippet of her appearance in an old television series named Police Surgeon popped up. I can certainly see similar mannerisms and style to Barbara Bel Geddes acting, more so than Donna Reed. However, after cementing her role as Miss Ellie I'm afraid I can see no one else playing her except Barbara Bel.

That was just an unfortunate situation thrust upon Barbara Bel and Donna Reed. I'd love to know who signed off on that debacle. They should have been fired.

BBG was not available for season 8, at least not in its entirety
According to reports, if I recall correctly, she wanted more $ and less work. That was not going to happen,
and no showrunner would have agreed to it.
When BBG returned in season 9, ratings dropped significantly
Yes, there were other factors, but her return was not going to save the show

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

BBG was not available for season 8, at least not in its entirety
According to reports, if I recall correctly, she wanted more $ and less work. That was not going to happen,
and no showrunner would have agreed to it.
When BBG returned in season 9, ratings dropped significantly
Yes, there were other factors, but her return was not going to save the show

Some showrunners would have agreed to it. The reduction in her workweek was going to be temporary, given her health situation. Given the impact on the show that the recasting had, agreeing to her terms would have been good business --- Larry was angry BBG didn't come to him for help with her negotiations, because he would have just snapped his fingers and it would have been done.

The ratings dropped the year she came back because the writing/producing team changed and they didn't know how to do DALLAS.

 

[Frank Underwood]

One could argue whether or not Donna Reed gave a good performance, but the bigger issue was the fact that she reinvented the character of Miss Ellie. That's fine if you're doing a play, as performers are allowed to put a new spin on a static story. However, a serialized TV show is a completely different beast. Recasts take people out of the story when the replacement actor is drastically different. Any recast would be hard to accept, but casting a "BBG type" would certainly have helped with the suspension of disbelief.

Nancy Olson looks like she fits the bill to me. Of course, if they were going to go with a sitcom mom from the 50s, I think Barbara Billingsley would have been a better choice.

 

[Monzo]

For Nancy Olsen's reputation, it was probably better that she didn't get the offer of the new Miss Ellie. I rewatched Paper Dolls just last year and for me, Nancy Olsen was unfortunately the weakest link in a soap that had many weak links. Although Paper Dolls was short-lived, it had enough time for Nancy Olsen's character to be the only one of the main cast to be killed off (plane crash). If Nancy Olsen couldn't even make it on a weak show like Paper Dolls, she would never have made it on Dallas.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

One could argue whether or not Donna Reed gave a good performance, but the bigger issue was the fact that she reinvented the character of Miss Ellie. That's fine if you're doing a play, as performers are allowed to put a new spin on a static story. However, a serialized TV show is a completely different beast. Recasts take people out of the story when the replacement actor is drastically different. Any recast would be hard to accept, but casting a "BBG type" would certainly have helped with the suspension of disbelief.

Nancy Olson looks like she fits the bill to me. Of course, if they were going to go with a sitcom mom from the 50s, I think Barbara Billingsley would have been a better choice.

Barbara Billingsley was and is the greatest TV Mom of all time!

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

For Nancy Olsen's reputation, it was probably better that she didn't get the offer of the new Miss Ellie. I rewatched Paper Dolls just last year and for me, Nancy Olsen was unfortunately the weakest link in a soap that had many weak links. Although Paper Dolls was short-lived, it had enough time for Nancy Olsen's character to be the only one of the main cast to be killed off (plane crash). If Nancy Olsen couldn't even make it on a weak show like Paper Dolls, she would never have made it on Dallas.

I agree. Her performance in Paper Dolls was average at best.
She just wouldn't have worked.
Dallas ratings declined sharply after season 8
After season 8, BBG played Miss Ellie for the next 5 seasons, and ratings declined sharply
It didn't matter who played Miss Ellie, the results wouldn't have been any better.

Also Donna Reed acted in at least 8 western films, including "Backlash" (1956)
where she portrayed a ranch matriarch.
The suggestion that she had no familiarity with such a role simply isn't true

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

So because the ratings kept sinking in the last 6 seasons of the show, then "it didn't matter who played Miss Ellie" ?

Then, by all means, re-cast JR with Don Knotts and it won't make any difference..............!

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

So because the ratings kept sinking in the last 6 seasons of the show, then "it didn't matter who played Miss Ellie" ?

Then, by all means, re-cast JR with Don Knotts and it won't make any difference..............!

That "logic" is beyond ridiculous

First of all ratings DID decline, with the return of BBG
If BBG was such an important factor, it didn't reflect in the ratings,
therefore if she was the best choice, another actress would not have imprioved the situation.

People may not want to hear this but people watched the show PRIMARILY for JR, Sue Ellen, Bobby and Pam
and whatever threat there was to Ewing Oil. (Usually Cliff)
It mattered who portrayed them.
Would a Ray Krebbs recast been catastrophic?
Donna Krebs? Cliff Barnes?

You are clearly trying to mock and disrespect me. Shame on you.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

People may not want to hear this but people watched the show PRIMARILY for JR, Sue Ellen, Bobby and Pam
and whatever threat there was to Ewing Oil. (Usually Cliff)
It mattered who portrayed them.

So you're saying it mattered who played all the other characters except Miss Ellie (and Donna)?? Not everybody cared only about the characters you cared about... The casting of JR, Pam, Bobby, and Sue Ellen (and usually Cliff) remained unchanged, and yet that didn't save DALLAS because of the downturn in the writing.

You are clearly trying to mock and disrespect me. Shame on you.

Why do you always, always defensively do this?? No one is "mocking and disrespecting" you just because you yourself realize your point may be creakier than you'd want to concede -- we're talking about old TV shows. Nobody's even thinking about you (until perhaps now, and maybe that's the intention).

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

So you're saying it mattered who played all the other characters except Miss Ellie (and Donna)?? Not everybody cared only about the characters you cared about... The casting of JR, Pam, Bobby, and Sue Ellen (and usually Cliff) remained unchanged, and yet that didn't save DALLAS because of the downturn in the writing.



Why do you always, always defensively do this?? No one is "mocking and disrespecting" you just because you yourself realize your point may be creakier than you'd want to concede -- we're talking about old TV shows. Nobody's even thinking about you (until perhaps now, and maybe that's the intention).

It mattered who played JR, Bobby, Sue Ellen and Pam because they were the core characters.
No one was tuning in on a weekly basis to ask "What will Miss Ellie do?
Did you know that Dorothy Malone was asked to play the role?
An Academy award winner with over 50 films, dozens of Tv credits, including 4 year sof Peyton Place?
I suppose she doesn't meet the Olympian standards that you seem to think the role required.
It is a good thing she declined, considering the irrational statements made by others about Donna Reed

When you use an absurd exaggeration like Don Knotts for JR, you are mocking me, it is not being defensive.
I could just as easily point out that you sound like someone running for President of the BBG appreciation society.

My point is not creaky. I didn't make up the season by season ratings.
The fact is that BBG's return not only didn't improve ratings, but there was a sharp decline.
Yes there were other factors, but re-recating Miss Ellie didn't save the show
I am trying to discuss this civilly, rather than the sarcasm tof the Don Knotts remark

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

When you use an absurd exaggeration like Don Knotts for JR, you are mocking me, it is not being defensive.
I could just as easily point out that you sound like someone running for President of the BBG appreciation society.

If you think that that qualifies as getting personal, your standard is pretty low. But you've had this kind of reaction -- to other posters -- multiple times before. The record is there.

I didn't make up the season by season ratings.

No one suggested you had. Just that it doesn't support your point.

I am trying to discuss this civilly,

Oh, I can see that. Kudos.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

If you think that that qualifies as getting personal, your standard is pretty low. But you've had this kind of reaction -- to other posters -- multiple times before. The record is there.



No one suggested you had. Just that it doesn't support your point.



Oh, I can see that. Kudos.

You are being sarcastic.
And others have disrespected me. I am not going to tolerate it.

And the ratings are objective. It does support my point.
Yu choose to ignore or minimize any facts that contradict your narrative

No thoughts on Dorothy Malone, Huh?
Too bad, a whole thread about her could have been started.
Just substitute her name for Donna Reed

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

You are being sarcastic.
And others have disrespected me. I am not going to tolerate it.

A noble standard you should stand by.

No thoughts on Dorothy Malone, Huh?
Too bad, a whole thread about her could have been started.

Well, start one. I'd probably read it.