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Fixing the "dream" solution

DallasFanForever

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Yeah, the Ben Stivers character maybe would've stood a better chance of staying on the show as a recast Jock Ewing. :)
Once Bobby was resurrected there was no way Wes was going to turn out to be Jock. They weren’t bringing two characters back from the dead so I think that Ben stood a much better chance of being Jock than Wes ever did.
 

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

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Once Bobby was resurrected there was no way Wes was going to turn out to be Jock. They weren’t bringing two characters back from the dead so I think that Ben stood a much better chance of being Jock than Wes ever did.

Maybe, maybe not. I've not long rewatched Wes Parmalee's season ten episodes. The episode where he just disappears has Miss Ellie suddenly changing her mind to be with Clayton despite her originally wanting to know if he really was Jock. I find it all quite contrived that they did a complete u-turn on not having him properly revealed as being Jock.
 

DallasFanForever

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Maybe, maybe not. I've not long rewatched Wes Parmalee's season ten episodes. The episode where he just disappears has Miss Ellie suddenly changing her mind to be with Clayton despite her originally wanting to know if he really was Jock. I find it all quite contrived that they did a complete u-turn on not having him properly revealed as being Jock.
Was the plan to make Wes turn out to be Jock and then they changed their minds at the last minute due to fan backlash or was it never even seriously considered? I was kind of young at the time.
 

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

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Was the plan to make Wes turn out to be Jock and then they changed their minds at the last minute due to fan backlash or was it never even seriously considered? I was kind of young at the time.
I've heard there was a fan backlash not receptive to Steve Forrest playing Jock which they felt was an insult to the memory of Jim Davis. So they wrote the character of Wes out asap despite the fact he really was meant to be Jock after all.
 
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DallasFanForever

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I've heard there was a fan backlash not receptive to Steve Forrest playing Jock which they felt was an insult to the memory of Jim Davis. So they wrote the character of Wes out asap despite the fact he really was meant to be Jock after all.
I see. Well, I do understand the backlash and why people felt that way. It’s hard for me to see someone playing Jock other than Jim Davis but I honestly wouldn’t have had a problem with Wes turning out to be Jock. That’s just me but I know most don’t agree.
 

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

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I see. Well, I do understand the backlash and why people felt that way. It’s hard for me to see someone playing Jock other than Jim Davis but I honestly wouldn’t have had a problem with Wes turning out to be Jock. That’s just me but I know most don’t agree.
I'm the same. I feel it would be more of a tribute to Jim Davis if his character had been brought back with another actor. Steve Forrest had the gravitas to be a great Jock Ewing. Such a shame they chickened out and wrote him off the show. The last few seasons would've been far better with Jock back on the show.
 

DallasFanForever

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I'm the same. I feel it would be more of a tribute to Jim Davis if his character had been brought back with another actor. Steve Forrest had the gravitas to be a great Jock Ewing. Such a shame they chickened out and wrote him off the show. The last few seasons would've been far better with Jock back on the show.
I tend to look at it like this. The glory days of the show were already behind it. Could the last four seasons have been any worse than they ended up being had they gone this route?
 

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

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I tend to look at it like this. The glory days of the show were already behind it. Could the last four seasons have been any worse than they ended up being had they gone this route?
Who knows! Dallas was a victim of its own success. I'd like to think the show could've recovered better with Jock back. It's all academic now, still it was fun while it lasted.
 

darkshadows38

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though i have not done it in a long time i have tried to think of a way that would have worked had they not made it a dream and i just can't honestly think of a good way to do it.
 

the-lost-son

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Here's an excerpt of David Paulsen's interview on ultimatedallas.com

David: I don't believe we ever really entertained the possibility of replacing Jock.

James: Right.

David: How could we? His picture was right over the fireplace. We may have played with the idea - forgive me if I'm wrong about this - the idea that this Wes Parmalee could be posing as Jock, might have let the audience think he was Jock for a while, but never did we entertain the possibility of actually making him Jock.

James: Right.
 

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

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Here's an excerpt of David Paulsen's interview on ultimatedallas.com

David: I don't believe we ever really entertained the possibility of replacing Jock.

James: Right.

David: How could we? His picture was right over the fireplace. We may have played with the idea - forgive me if I'm wrong about this - the idea that this Wes Parmalee could be posing as Jock, might have let the audience think he was Jock for a while, but never did we entertain the possibility of actually making him Jock.

James: Right.
Except they quite clearly did, judging by how swiftly the storyline was dropped once the viewers complained about it. :)
 

Chris2

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I wonder how much viewer complaints had to do with it, given how far in advance the scripts were written and shot. I think they were trying to salvage whatever they had planned or written for 86-87 before Patrick Duffy’s return was announced and 85-86 was nullified. So they took the planned Jock revival story written for Ben Stivers and repurposed it for Wes, but just tacked on a different (and abrupt) resolution.
 

the-lost-son

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I wonder how much viewer complaints had to do with it, given how far in advance the scripts were written and shot. I think they were trying to salvage whatever they had planned or written for 86-87 before Patrick Duffy’s return was announced and 85-86 was nullified. So they took the planned Jock revival story written for Ben Stivers and repurposed it for Wes, but just tacked on a different (and abrupt) resolution.
Agreed. I loved Dallas for this long-lasting storylines which had an impact on many characters even after long time in between.
For example Mickey's/Sue Ellen's car crash with Walt Driscall had an effect on Ray's and Donna's plan to adapt three years later.

Around season 9 (DVD10) they started to put event after event which tended to be forgotten max. 10 episodes later. Characters like Jack, Jamie, Mandy, Donna (!), later Ellie/Clayton straying around without any long-term planning.

- I think Katzman took the Wes Parmalee storyline from the dream season because everything happened in a rush. Capice probably would have made him turn to be Jock, because the show was intended to resemble Dynasty anyway at that point. If it were a clear that he was an imposter from the beginning it would have been boring. I didn't like the sudden drop of the storyline though. They teased that Clayton might hunt Parmalee down. Nothing happened, it was forgotten the next episode. No long-term planning/writing anymore.
- Same goes for Donna, Jack, Mandy. Gone to be never talked about, their exit having no effect on anyone. (That's why I started this thread in the first place:
http://tellytalk.net/threads/characters-which-should-have-been-killed-off.10824/page-3#post-280871)

This detoriated quality in writing can be seen in numerous examples, e.g. Nicolas Pearce off the balcony, SE shoots JR. All forgotten shortly after, without any major consequences for any other characters.
 

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The last scene, I would have them replay when Bobby gets hit by the car and then switch to Bobby in hospital and he wakes up and gaps. They could say he was in a coma for 12 months and keep the majority of the storylines as the various family members would visit him in hospital and talk to him about what has been happening. Some of the storylines you didn't want to keep was him dreaming in a coma. Have some doctor explain it when he wakes up. Pam would then have to pick between him and Mark. Sue Ellen would be blind and start drinking again. Jenna thinks she is in with another chance. Jack leaves as Jamie is dead (the most important part).

You could even reimagine the Katherine/Pam hospital scene by Angelica dressed as a nurse visiting Bobby after she has escaped from prison
 

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

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I wonder how much viewer complaints had to do with it, given how far in advance the scripts were written and shot. I think they were trying to salvage whatever they had planned or written for 86-87 before Patrick Duffy’s return was announced and 85-86 was nullified. So they took the planned Jock revival story written for Ben Stivers and repurposed it for Wes, but just tacked on a different (and abrupt) resolution.
Apparently it leaked whilst the season was being filmed that Steve Forrest would be playing the new Jock Ewing, so you could well be right Chris that instead of continuing the storyline and making him Jock they dropped the repurposed storyline asap.
 
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Rove

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Duffy agreed to return for seasons 9-11 (WB 10-12) for a 35,000$ raise per episode to 75,000$ per episode, a $1 million signing bonus, the ability to direct three episodes per season And control over the storyline resurrecting Bobby.
Nice work if you can get it. Patrick was adamant he never wished to return to Dallas so the producers killed the character off. Then Larry believes the series is suffering so sets up secret meetings to get Patrick to return. Possibly while slurping dirty matinees and contemplating why his movie career didn't take off Patrick agrees to return for an increased salary, a bonus and gets to tell the writers how his character will no longer be the nice guy.

Never mind the details on how the hell we resurrect a dead character and dispense with a whole season we just need Patrick and Lenny back. As long as Larry is happy, everyone is happy. Buy hey guys. There is something your forgetting here...your loyal audience! So people were curious and tuned in when Bobby spins in the shower. How quickly they turned off when we realized the previous season was Pam's nightmare. Why lump this on Pam? Was this Patrick/Bobby's doing? Victoria doesn't care. It's adios Dallas and I'm off to make my zillions from infomercials. She ends up making so much money it makes Larry and Patrick's salary look like spare change.

The turmoil behind the scenes spilled over to the small screen. Granted Larry, Patrick and Lenny were back but at what cost. Seasoned actors and characters we cared about were dispensed with because someone decided their character had run it's course. Bull dust. Two greedy men thinking only of themselves eventually killed the golden goose and Dallas has never really recovered since.
 

Chris2

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The comments about long term planning are spot on. CBS saw the ratings drop alarmingly in the latter half of the 85-86 season, so they were happy to go along with whatever Lorimar was planning to do to re-generate interest in (and save) the show. But no one in authority was saying “Hey - how do we construct Bobby’s return for maximum impact and entertainment?” Instead, it was - “Let’s get back to the status quo as quickly as possible.“ Big mistake.
 

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

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The comments about long term planning are spot on. CBS saw the ratings drop alarmingly in the latter half of the 85-86 season, so they were happy to go along with whatever Lorimar was planning to do to re-generate interest in (and save) the show. But no one in authority was saying “Hey - how do we construct Bobby’s return for maximum impact and entertainment?” Instead, it was - “Let’s get back to the status quo as quickly as possible.“ Big mistake.
It would've served them better if they had kept the original cliff hanger of Steve Forrest revealing to Miss Ellie that he was Jock. :)
 

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Regarding Wes Parmalee can I ask what audience backlash people keep talking about?
Watching in the UK at the time I don’t remember anything negative in the press.
There WAS huge backlash against the dream resolution but not about the Parmalee storyline.
Wasn’t Steve Forrest contracted to do a Gunsmoke TV movie and ThTs why it was wrapped up so quickly?
 
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