Gary & Valene Appreciation Thread

[Karin Schill]

Hi Everyone,

I figured it was about time that the last Ewing brother also get a shipper thread where the fans can discuss all things Gary & Valene and also share videos and photos.

Anyone who posts in the Dallas section of the board must be familiar with the JR & Sue Ellen, Bobby & Pam and Donna & Ray couple threads so the idea is to create a similar type of thread for Gary & Val who were in my opinion just as iconic as these other couples.

Ironically they were also the only couple out of the four that actually ended up together in the end.

Anyway to get the discussion going I am wondering what is it about Gary & Val that you love?

Take care,
Love:
Karin.

 

[Seaviewer]

It's difficult to describe. There's just something a little mystical about them, from the moment of their first meeting which we see in flashback. Even the fact that it's two other actors in the scene doesn't detract from the magic.

 

[Julia's Gun]

Found this nice little tribute to them on youtube.

It contains one of my favorite scenes between them - at Val's wedding to Ben, when a tearful Gary says he is sorry things didn't work out between them and hopes Ben will make her happy... It gets me every time.

 

[Karin Schill]

Oh I love that scene too. Their emotions are written all over their faces and it's all so sad. Despite how much they still love each other they simply can not be together and I think that's a part of what I love about this couple. It's so obvious that they belong together even when they are apart.
Also they always have each other's backs. Even if they are divorced and we think they have moved on when shit happens there is always one other person in the world that they can always rely on and that never fails. A couple of examples would be when Gary is arrested for Ciji's murder and wants to be punished. It takes Val to make him realize that he didn't do it. Another example is when their babies have been kidnapped and Val loses her idenity and becomes Verna and runs off to Shula, Tenneessee. It takes Gary to bring her out of her shell and make her remember who she is. I love that scene when they are dancing in their wedding clothes. I used to think it was a fantasy scene that was meant to show Val that it was really Gary she loved and not Parker, but I have recently realized it's meant to be a flashback scene of what actually was.

@Seaviewer I know exactly which scene you are referring to too and I agree that the fact that it's two other actors who portray a younger Gary and Val in that flashback scene doesn't take away the magic. I love that moment too when she remembers Gary for a split second before she goes back into her shell as Verna. It just shows how strong their connection really was.

So what's your favorite Gary & Val scenes?

One of the scenes already mentioned or something else. Let's keep the discussion going!

Finally let's end today's post with a couple of screen caps from the scene @Julia's Gun mentioned:

Yes this scene gets to me too. So that's some great acting by Ted and Joan. I think their chemistry is great.

 

[Julia's Gun]

Another classic Gary & Val moment is from the end of the episode 'Encounters' from Season 4, when Lilimae forces them together in a parking lot to get them to speak to each other again. Val is actually the stronger and really brave one here, and her rejection of him marks a turning point in her character from the sweat-pea downtrodden Valene of the early seasons, to the successful novelist and career woman she became later that year.

On one level this was Val stamping her authority at last and refusing to lay down and take back her man after yet another of his infidelities. But we know that despite the anger Val was still in love with him and really wanted Gary to just beg a bit more, promise to drop Abby and she would take him back once more.

The heartrending bit comes at the end of the scene, in a last moment of weakness when Val turns round again. Calling out meekly to Gary she turns round to find he has already driven off and left... It's a bit like when Gary marries Abby later in Season 5, and Val finds out from a phone call to Olivia that they have just eloped, after he stood her up at the coffee shop. Just when we thought they might get back together, they were driven apart yet again. Those writers knew what they were doing to us!

 

[Mrs Bobby James Ewing]

Karin, I love your new thread dedicated to Gary and Val. They are my favorite couple on Knots Landing next to Karen and Mack. The writers kept them apart way too long. They should have been put back together much earlier than they were so they could have raised Bobby and Betsy together from birth since they didn't get raise their daughter Lucy.

 

[Karin Schill]

Thank you Sanda. I am glad you're loving this thread already.
Val & Gary is my favorite couple on Knots Landing too. I like a lot of the couples but they are my most favorites, probably in part because of the Dallas connection. So naturally I've also made the most fan videos about them. I haven't made any new ones in years but I just added an old one to youtube the other day that some of you might have watched many years ago. If not enjoy:

That's another really great scene @Julia's Gun . I agree with pretty much everything that you said about the scene and how it marked a turning point for Val. It was so sad at the end when she caves in and turns around calling out his name and he's already gone.

You know "Encounters" was actually the first episode of Knots Landing that I ever watched. It was in the 1990s and I had just finished watching all of Dallas when my dad mentioned that there was another show where we got to follow Gary & Val so naturally I wanted to watch it. So he looked among his old videotapes to see if he had any recorded and he found that episode. So my sister and I watched it and at first the idea of that Gary & Val had split up or could have had more children after Lucy seemed odd to me. Then Knots Landing came on in reruns about a year later and we watched it from the beginning and it all made sense.

Which was the first Knots Landing episode you watched?
Also which is the earliest Val & Gary scene you can remember?

For me it was that scene in the garage. So I'll post a few caps of that one as well:

Basically watching that episode made me want to watch the rest of the series.

Then here's a few caps from that scene at the coffee shop that you mentioned as well:

Yeah the writer's sure knew what they were doing!

Also I think it was Laura who had told Gary to stay out of Val's life if he wasn't serious about starting over again since it would hurt Val less that way. I remember I was a bit annoyed with Laura for her meddling when I first watched this episode.

 

[Mrs Bobby James Ewing]

Karin, I rewatched several of your Gary and Val music videos on YouTube over the weekend and I fell in love with them all over again. Your music videos are wonderful and I look forward to watching new music videos from you in the future.

 

[Julia's Gun]

Which was the first Knots Landing episode you watched?
Also which is the earliest Val & Gary scene you can remember?

Well, interestingly like you I first started watching regularly during Season 4, when it was repeated here in the UK on BBC1 in the late 80s, during the school holidays. I think it was the episode where Karen caught Sid's killers, 'Catharsis' I think. Very soon I got addicted, but Gary & Val were already apart then, so they had few scenes together that year.

I do remember the fireworks after Ciji was murdered, and Val marches down to the police station to confess to her murder. There is a scene where they both meet in Ciji's apartment and Gary goes berserk at her. Val thought Gary moved the body to protect her, and she had accidentally killed her by pushing her over. It would have been ridiculous on another soap, but on Knots it was all so gripping, and made me see all this history that they had between them, prior to their break up. I hadn't seen the earlier seasons and so it made it all the more compelling to keep watching, to see if they would rekindle that spark, as they still cared so deeply about each other.

After that, I remember well that lovely beach scene at the end of Season 7, when Val trashes Ben's apartment, and Gary finds her on the beach. It was another of those rare moments when it looked like events were conspiring to get them back together again - Gary divorcing Abby, Ben running off with Cathy, and the two of them comforting each other and laughing together on the beach. 'We deserve each other' Val said, and they did. Sadly though, the writers kept them apart yet again, and it was another 4-5 years before they finally got reconciled.

 

[Seaviewer]

that scene when they are dancing in their wedding clothes. I used to think it was a fantasy scene that was meant to show Val that it was really Gary she loved and not Parker, but I have recently realized it's meant to be a flashback scene of what actually was.

That's an interesting interpretation. I never thought of that.

Which was the first Knots Landing episode you watched?
Also which is the earliest Val & Gary scene you can remember?

I watched both series from the beginning so my earliest memories of Gary & Val are as Lucy's parents and her desire to see them reunited which became a fifteen-year saga.

I do remember the fireworks after Ciji was murdered, and Val marches down to the police station to confess to her murder. There is a scene where they both meet in Ciji's apartment and Gary goes berserk at her.

That's the scene I was going to nominate. The police have arranged for them to be there at the same time but they don't know it. That moment when they see each other is just electric.

 

[Karin Schill]

Thank you Sanda. I am glad that you still love my music videos.

Good point about how it was Lucy who brought Val and Gary back together on Dallas. Just too bad she didn't visit them more than once after they'd settled down in Knots Landing...

@Julia's Gun and @Seaviewer I agree with you both about that scene at the apartment after Ciji's murder. That was in deed a great Val & Gary scene that was very emotional. Although they were apart it was obvious how deeply they still cared about each other...

I would post some captures of that scene if I had it captured but at the moment I don't think I do and I am waiting for my new capture card to arrive with the post.

The beach scene is a great one as well. I love the way they just start laughing and keep laughing even though it's not really funny. There's such a bond between them.
Like you I also thought they would reunite soon at that point.

In fact have anyone else noticed this, but it seems to me that whenever a season of Knots Landing is about to come to a close they give us a Gary & Val scene where we think they might get back together again the next season to keep us watching...
And yet it took years before they were properly reunited. Coincidence?
I think not!

That's an interesting interpretation. I never thought of that.

So how do you interpret this scene?

Was it a fantasy or a flashback?
Or maybe a dream...

I'd be interested in hearing your interpretation of it.

Also to everyone who has read this thread but haven't commented anything yet. I would love it if you could join in the discussion.

 

[Seaviewer]

how do you interpret this scene?

I thought that Gary's appearance in Shula had begun to stir her memory and her subconscious was telling her that it was Gary she belonged with and not Parker.

 

[Karin Schill]

So basically we both interpret the scene to mean that Valene knew subconsciously that she belonged with Gary and not Parker.
What's your interpretation of the scene @Julia's Gun ?

Also I have another question for discussion that I hope more people can join in on as well. How many times were Gary & Val married?

The reason I ask this is because I always thought it was three times. But then I read a post by @Seaviewer on the Dallas board where you said that they were never divorced between the first and second wedding, which would make the second one a renewal of their vows. So now I am wondering which one was it?

Also if Gary and Val never divorced between the first two marriages doesn't that mean that Valene also cheated on Gary when they were apart?

I think it was implied in an episode of Knots Landing that Valene had had a relationship with Rusty in between her marriages with Gary. Rusty was the guy with the daughter that Gary beat up on after Valene had found him with Abby in case someone doesn't remember his name. So maybe that's why I thought they were divorced since I just don't see Valene as the cheating type.

Gary unfortunately was the cheating type as we all know since he cheated on Val with Abby and with Jill and Cathy when he was married to Abby and with Val when he was in a relationship with Jill and of course with Val when he was in a relationship with Abby...does anyone see a pattern here?

Seems like whoever Gary was with he always gravitated back to Val!

Finally some photos from the second and third wedding:

 

[Seaviewer]

you said that they were never divorced between the first and second wedding, which would make the second one a renewal of their vows. So now I am wondering which one was it?

It was made clear on Dallas that they were still legally married.

if Gary and Val never divorced between the first two marriages doesn't that mean that Valene also cheated on Gary when they were apart?

I think it was implied in an episode of Knots Landing that Valene had had a relationship with Rusty in between her marriages with Gary.

I guess they didn't consider it cheating if they didn't think there was any hope of them ever seeing each other again, though it's telling that neither of them ever filed for a divorce either.

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

View attachment 13477

The beach scene is a great one as well. I love the way they just start laughing and keep laughing even though it's not really funny.

Except for their faulty memories of their arrival in Knots Landing. I wonder if that had anything to do with Pam Ewing’s dream distortions.

 

[ChrisSumner]

Its still crazy to think of how in love I am with Knots Landing and soaps in general when I found them by accident. I've always been a night owl and when I was around 13 or 14 I happened to turn on SOAPnet and Falcon Crest was coming on. It was the finale with the plane crash and the promo before the episode hooked me so I watched it. I loved it so I decided to stay turned to Knots Landing and in a stroke of good luck, the season six finale aired. Having two incredibly strong episodes as my entrance into the 80s primetime soaps is something I'm thankful for. Had it been a season one episode or season 13, or even just a regular episode I'm not sure if I would've been hooked. Having an episode with Joan Van Ark at the center completely drew me in and I've been obsessed ever since. Joan Van Ark and Ted Shackelford just have a remarkable chemistry and worked so well together. I'm still mad I didn't get my Gary and Val reunion on The Young and the Restless.

 

[Karin Schill]

Thank you @JR's Piece @ChrisSumner for joining us.

Chris, you mentioned something about a Gary and Val reunion on The Young and the Restless. Was that something which was discussed?
I know that Ted and Joan have both starred on that show but since it was never broadcast in Sweden I didn't pay much attention to it. So I think I've missed that.

Anyway thanks for telling us how you got hooked on the show. I can see how Joan Van Ark's acting pulled you in. She really is a brilliant actress and I love how passionate she is about acting and how much thought she puts into all her roles.
I read an old Ultimate Dallas interview with her the other day where she talked about how much she had prepared simply for coming back as Valene on Dallas TNT.

Which reminds me what did you all think of the brief Gary & Val reunion on Dallas TNT?

Personally I was disappointed that we didn't get to see more of them together since the scene they had filmed was cut and wasn't even among the deleted scenes on the DVD. It is quite obvious from watching the scene where Lucy and Valene shows up at Southfork that it is building up to a Gary & Valene scene and when I first saw the episode I had expected them to cut back to their discussion after the next scene. But they never did. Instead the next we saw of Valene was how she stormed into Sue Ellen's office and called her a bitch. So something Gary had said to her must have made her angry and drawn the conclusion that Gary might not come back to her. But we never got to see that conversation so a piece of the puzzle was definitely missing. I was also upset with the way Dallas TNT messed up Gary & Val's story since they ended up together in Back to the Cul-de-sac in 1997 and then in 2013 they had apparently separated since Gary had fallen off the wagon again and yet they never went into details about their problems. I guess he ended up going back to her, it is sort of implied in his last scene with Sue Ellen. But we never got to see them make up as their story was cut and as a fan I found that annoying.

It was made clear on Dallas that they were still legally married.
I guess they didn't consider it cheating if they didn't think there was any hope of them ever seeing each other again, though it's telling that neither of them ever filed for a divorce either.

You know I am more confused about this now than before since to me it was not made clear on Dallas that they were still legally married. It was ambigeous. I know you said in another thread on the board that Miss Ellie had commented to Valene in Return Engagements that if she had been separated from her husband that long she would want a new ceremony too. So yes that indicates that they had never been legally divorced and yet in another scene from the previous season's episode Reunion we see Lucy talking to Gary and Valene and she says. "Daddy I was just telling Mama that since neither of you got married again you must still be carrying torches!"
Which indicates that they were divorced. To complicate matters all three of the episodes we are referring to were written by David Jacobs.

 

[ChrisSumner]

@Karin Schill on The Young and the Restless Joan was a big hit and they wanted her to sign a contract but officially she said is was too much work and she quit. Many speculate that she quit because Lynn Marie Latham took over the show and they both hated each other from Knots Lol. Had she stayed her character would’ve been married to Ted’s character for several years! I was so sad it didn’t get to happen. Joan was really good on the show!

As for nuDallas I hated what they did. Instead of writing it like a soap with follow through it was only about moments. What we got was good but it makes no sense not to follow up. Joan was excellent as was Ted. I would’ve made Ted a regular after JR’s death and keep Val and Lucy around. Instead of giving Ryland a young daughter, why not make that Lucy’s Child? It makes me so sad to think the last time we may ever see Val and Gary it’s so unfinished.

 

[Karin Schill]

Thanks for explaining about the Young and the restless @ChrisSumner . I can see why you are still disappointed that you didn't get to see Joan's and Ted's characters be married on that show. I guess it would have been like the closest you would have gotten to see more of Valene & Gary without them actually being them!
Thinking about that now I guess it would have been a bit confusing. Like every time they called the character by another name it would be like, "now wait a minute now. Aren't I watching Val and Gary?"
So since I've never watched the show. What was their Young and the restless characters like?

@Seaviewer I think I have figured it out why you and so many other fans are convinced that Gary and Val have only been married twice. It said so in the Laura Van Wormer book. So I guess if we should consider that book as canon than yes they were only married twice but had three weddings.

However since those books came out in the mid 1980s it gets a bit sticky. Like for instance on Lilimae's profile it mentions that she had three siblings and yet neither one of them is named Virginia and yet a few seasons later Valene's aunt Virginia who is Lilimae's sister shows up to stay with them!

Finally as for the new Dallas. I agree with your analysis Chris about how the show was more about moments than building up drama. It was like every time they had a potentially interesting storyline they dropped the ball and threw in yet another plot twist. Like for instance after JR's death. It would have been enough to have them deal with their grief and coming to terms with life without JR for a few episodes. Like they did when Jock died on the original show. But instead they just had to throw in an explosion in the next episode and then Pamela Rebecca lost the babies and the plot twists just kept on spinning so ridiculously fast and without dealing with the fall out. So it was really difficult to get invested in the characters at all when they did that and it was a shame since Dallas was a hit show and if it had been handled with better care I am sure the new Dallas could have been too!

Well here's *crossing my fingers* that it wasn't the last we saw of Gary & Valene. I mean if there is ever a Knots Landing reunion we would get to see more of them wouldn't we?
Also if they would ever do a Knots Landing continuation with three generations (the originals being the grandparents) I think it would be great if they could introduce Lucy's children on that show. They would probably have been born in the 1990s which would put them at an interesting age now. Considering that Bobby and Betsy were lots younger, like born in 1984, if they have kids by now they would be lots younger. Like no older than 14 years old tops and then they would have had a child at age 20, which somehow I doubt it. But yeah I was annoyed they never mentioned if Lucy had any kids on the new Dallas. So it is something I would like to see explored if Knots Landing would ever come back!

But yeah it's a shame we didn't get to see more of Gary & Val on the new Dallas. I think the door was definitely open for them to come back more. But for some reason the show runner of Dallas TNT decided to take the show in the opposite direction and turned the show more and more into a crime drama which in my opinion was something that Dallas was not. Dallas was about dysfunctional family relationships and the stories comes from the characters not the plots!

Oh well at least Gary was featured properly in three episodes and got to interact quite a lot with his brother and ex sister-in-law so that was nice. I just wish we had gotten to see his one scene with Valene. It was totally unfair that they deleted it and didn't even put it on the DVD!

 

[Seaviewer]

But we never got to see them make up as their story was cut and as a fan I found that annoying

I think a lot of those episodes was changed when Larry Hagman died but surely they could still have found a way to complete that particular plotline - especially if the scene had already been filmed.

I think I have figured it out why you and so many other fans are convinced that Gary and Val have only been married twice. It said so in the Laura Van Wormer book.

No, it has nothing to do with the book. I'm going by what I saw on screen.

in another scene from the previous season's episode Reunion we see Lucy talking to Gary and Valene and she says. "Daddy I was just telling Mama that since neither of you got married again you must still be carrying torches!" Which indicates that they were divorced.

It does seem ambiguous but I think the later scenes can be taken as clarification.