Gary & Valene Appreciation Thread

thomaswak

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Dallas TNT borrowed the characers from Knots Landing (although they did originate from Dallas) and then they didn't give them proper closure, which meant that they ruined the happy ending that Valene and Gary had gotten on the original show and also in Back to the cul-de-sac in 1997. Of course this could easily be fixed if there was ever another Knots Landing reunion or reboot series... ;)

Any thoughts on this?

I think Gary & Val still have their happy ending we saw in Knots Landing. Because the show was severed from Dallas when Bobby's death became just Pam's dream. At this point, in Knots Landing, Bobby was still dead, and our beloved characters were living in their own alternate universe, that we love and know.

The Gary & Val we saw in TNT Dallas are the ones from the original universe/reality : Bobby never died : no death, no will, nothing to give to Gary. It changed surely a lot Gary's life, and to the extent his relation with all the others Knots characters.
 
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Daniel Avery

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Yes, I also subscribe to the "Divorce" school of thought with respect to Dallas and Knots. The characters who arrived in TNT Dallas were not the Val and Gary we saw reuniting and having their happy ending on KL in 1993, since those two assume Bobby Ewing died in the mid-1980s. It's probably why I didn't even bother to watch TNT Dallas when 'ersatz Gary and Val' visited and behaved so oddly. KL Gary and Val are off living their best lives in a parallel universe that 'spun off' around the time they learned Bobby died.

Obviously it was a lot easier for me to subscribe to the Divorce theory since I only saw the KL version of G&V, not Dallas G&V.
 
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Seaviewer

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There is also their famous confrontation in Ciji's apartment in 'Burden of Proof' where Val tries to take the blame for Ciji's death in order to get Gary off the hook, and it is striking how their almost violent coming to blows in this scene shows to the viewer how much they are still bonded together, and if one is suffering, the other has to step forward and take the blows.
I think that could be the single greatest Gary and Val moment ever; when they lock eyes in that room and freeze before they both start yelling.
 

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This has to be BIGGER! And I don't know why Gary's thumb is placed where it is...

 
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Karin Schill

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Thank you everyone for the photos and great discussion! :spinning:

That photo of the triangle is from such a pivotal scene. I mean who can forget the look on Val's face when her suspicious minds are proven to be right. Gary is having an affair with Abby. I don't think Gary intended to hurt Val or wanted to be caught. I am not even sure Abby intended to get caught or what do you think?

Either way her facial expression totally changes when Val walks in and she looks down, almost like she is embarrassed.

Then as for the photo itself it's interesting. I mean Abby has Gary now, she stands close to him but Gary and Val's facial expressions still matches while Abby is looking away. I am sure someone put a lot of thought into staging this image.

I think Season 4 is my favorite Gary & Val season for me, because it is their first full season apart, yet neither is able to really move on and they are clearly still in love with each other. I am re-watching this at the moment, and their splitting up dominates the whole season and other characters' story arcs, even though Gary and Val themselves don't have that many scenes together.

Wow! Thank you for your excellent analysis of Val & Gary in season four Julia's Gun. You make an excellent case for why that season is your favorite and points out a lot of moments that I also love like the scene in the parking garage and the scene on the beach with Mack and Val when she admits Gary is her weakness until the end of the season where Val convinces Gary to fight back and not just stay in jail to punish himself. All great scenes. The one thing I hadn't thought about before that you pointed out that is also true is how Karen and Val's conversations about "cheating with the neighbour" absolutely match. That is a great observation! :hat:

Always liked the storyline of Val going nuts and running off to TN. No one else could retrieve her but Gary. I liked how no matter that they were married to other people, they would drop everything to help the other.
You know I think that season six might be the season where Gary and Val had the strongest storyline even though they were not together. I love how it all plays out from the beginning to end. On the surface they have moved on, Gary is married to Abby and Val is with Ben. But we all know that Val is pregnant with Gary's babies and naturally they still belong together. There is always that tension, will she or won't she tell him the truth?

He tells her that he wish the babies were his. Yet she doesn't confess. He somehow ends up at her birthing class even though Mack was supposed to be there. There are all these little hints.

Abby naturally feels threatened when she finds out Gary is the father and talks to the wrong person and then we have the kidnapping and lie that the babies were stillborn.

Poor Val is inconsolable and yet the one person she turns to is Gary. I think that scene in the Thanksgiving episode when he comes to fetch her for the party is poignant where she tells him that she wish they had never gotten remarried since then this wouldn't have happened. Gary doesn't know that the babies are his but Val does.

Then we come to Val's running away from home and becoming Verna. This is Val that is regressing to a person she was before Knots Landing started. She is back to being a waitress, back to her roots. The change is obvious in her choice of wardrobe that becomes more girlish like in season one of Knots. Val thinks she is Verna and she thinks she loves Parker and yet when Gary shows up he gets to her and subconsiously she knows they belong together even when she denies it. I love that scene when she tries on the wedding dress and fantasizes that she is dancing with Gary. It is such a sweet fantasy. Also the suspense when she is about to marry Parker and at the last moment Gary reaches her and she snaps out of it and realizes who she really is. Val and Gary are not married here and yet it is so obvious that they have a connection that nobody can severe. They still belong together.

Then finally at the end of the season the babies are found and naturally Val and Gary are both there when they find them. I think this whole season just plays out brilliantly. The drama keeps us hooked and wanting to see what happens next.

Another season I also have a soft spot is season 13 when Gary and Valene are finally remarried again. Although I hate how Gary loses the ranch there is something special with how Gary and Val's story sort of comes full circle and they are back where they began at the house his mother gave them as a wedding gift. So I love the fact that they are back together again. I am not sure if I would say it's my favorite season with them. But it's among my favorites.

I think Gary & Val still have their happy ending we saw in Knots Landing. Because the show was severed from Dallas when Bobby's death became just Pam's dream. At this point, in Knots Landing, Bobby was still dead, and our beloved characters were living in their own alternate universe, that we love and know.

The Gary & Val we saw in TNT Dallas are the ones from the original universe/reality : Bobby never died : no death, no will, nothing to give to Gary. It changed surely a lot Gary's life, and to the extent his relation with all the others Knots characters.

Yes, I also subscribe to the "Divorce" school of thought with respect to Dallas and Knots. The characters who arrived in TNT Dallas were not the Val and Gary we saw reuniting and having their happy ending on KL in 1993, since those two assume Bobby Ewing died in the mid-1980s. It's probably why I didn't even bother to watch TNT Dallas when 'ersatz Gary and Val' visited and behaved so oddly. KL Gary and Val are off living their best lives in a parallel universe that 'spun off' around the time they learned Bobby died.

Obviously it was a lot easier for me to subscribe to the Divorce theory since I only saw the KL version of G&V, not Dallas G&V.

That is an interesting observation. I guess it's plausible. Although I tend to think of Dallas and Knots as belonging to the same universe where the only difference is that on Knots Bobby remained dead but on Dallas he was alive. So everything that happened on Knots also happened on Dallas and vice versa minus Bobby getting killed. Oh and obviously JR's alternative universe in the final episode of Dallas is not canon either!
 
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Karin Schill

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If you were to chose five favorite Gary & Valene scenes which ones would you chose and why?
 

Jock's Ghost

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I always loved how Val never hated Gary. And how Abby wasnt just a vicious tramp.. this was the best triangle ever put to film. The show was never afraid of making its characters unlikable. Even when Gary was being a cheating snake, i didnt wholly dislike him. When abby was scheming or when Val being naive and stupid (her many awful haircuts) I felt for these characters mo matter how foolish they were.
WHY IS THIS SHOW SO UNDERRATED?
lesser shows would have used more gimmicky and contrivance to tell the TN storyline but i feel it was handled very reasonable and believable. Underscored completely how these two were not done.
 

thomaswak

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If you were to chose five favorite Gary & Valene scenes which ones would you chose and why?

I don't have 5 scenes in minds, but this episode, when Val finds out that Gary is cheating with Abby is the first that comes in mind. And the moment she was driving her car, crying, and Gary trying to stop her, to talk with her. That was so sad...

Also the episode when Gary brings Lillimae back to Val's home, and they make love (and Val getting pregnant without knowing it)

Those 2 scenes were "game changer" for the Val & Gary relation and storytelling.
 

Mustard

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Gary and Valene still loved each other in Season 4 yes, but had they just got back together then, Gary and Val would not have developed as well as people in the following years as they did apart. Gary needed Abby at that time of his life, to compel him into responsibilities, whereas Val would have told Gary to keep his head down, while Val does all the other responsibilities herself instead of Gary, making Gary feel annoyed and inadequate that he is a "weak" man. Val was already doing that in Season 2, as Gary's affair with Judy was due to Gary feeling flattered at Judy looking up to him instead of him looking up to her like he did with Val. Judy misread the situation between Gary and Val completely, thinking that Gary had merely gone off Val. The opposite was true, as he didn't think he could match Val's strength ever and would feel lost without her. Abby had a strength herself that was closer to J.R., although aimed at helping Gary rather than breaking him.

It was all excellent writing. It shows why Season 3 Gary found Abby irresistible. It went beyond just sexual attraction, into the decisive emotional factor and Abby's personality of forcing Gary to face responsibilities. Val, in contrast, was treating Gary like a China doll, scared that Gary's addictions would see her lose him. Gary was a very different person when he got back together with Val all those years later, as was Val, and still in love, and now with the right dynamics to give the relationship more solid foundations. They'd have never become those different people with the stronger foundations in their relationship/marriage had they stayed together all along.
 
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Karin Schill

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I always loved how Val never hated Gary. And how Abby wasnt just a vicious tramp.. this was the best triangle ever put to film. The show was never afraid of making its characters unlikable. Even when Gary was being a cheating snake, i didnt wholly dislike him. When abby was scheming or when Val being naive and stupid (her many awful haircuts) I felt for these characters mo matter how foolish they were.
WHY IS THIS SHOW SO UNDERRATED?

I know. It's such a great show with a brilliant cast and writing. I love how all the character have depth that makes you like them even when they do horrible things.

Gary and Valene still loved each other in Season 4 yes, but had they just got back together then, Gary and Val would not have developed as well as people in the following years as they did apart. Gary needed Abby at that time of his life, to compel him into responsibilities, whereas Val would have told Gary to keep his head down, while Val does all the other responsibilities herself instead of Gary, making Gary feel annoyed and inadequate that he is a "weak" man.
You make an excellent point. Abby did believe in Gary and helped him develop. She knew how to use his money to make more money too, something that Val really didn't know as she was not that interested in business. So yes Abby made Gary more interesting and I liked them as a couple, just as I did like Val and Ben, although it was clear all along that Gary & Val still loved each other.

I don't have 5 scenes in minds, but this episode, when Val finds out that Gary is cheating with Abby is the first that comes in mind. And the moment she was driving her car, crying, and Gary trying to stop her, to talk with her. That was so sad...

Also the episode when Gary brings Lillimae back to Val's home, and they make love (and Val getting pregnant without knowing it)

Those 2 scenes were "game changer" for the Val & Gary relation and storytelling.

Thanks for answering my question. You are right those two scenes are really important. Also I just realized that I never answered my own question. So well after giving it some thought I think my top favorite Valene & Gary scenes would be:

1. That scene in Pictures at a wedding at Val's wedding to Ben when Val and Gary have a talk and he wishes her happiness with Ben. It's so heartbreaking since we know they still love each other. The emotions are written all over their faces.

2. The scene in Encounters at the parking garage when Lilimae has fooled Val to go there to meet her and she meets Gary instead since they need to talk. He asks her not to give up on them and she just walks away. It is one of the first scenes I ever saw with them. So angsty.

3. The scene in And Never Brought to mind... where Gary brings Lilimae home and Gary and Val ends up making love. Finally she lets go of her anger.

4. The scene in I think Willing Victims where Val talks to Gary in prison. She knows he hasn't killed Ciji and she makes him realize it too.

5. The scene in the end of Letting Go when Gary has lost the ranch and they've moved back to the Cul-de-sac. It's at the very end when he gives Val her wedding ring back. It's a touching moment between them.

Honarable mentioning to the scene at Laura's funeral where Val and Gary talk and comfort each other.
Also that scene at the end of season seven where we see them laughing at the beach.

So well those are some of my favorite Gary & Val scenes. :)

Now what's yours?
 
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Jock's Ghost

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Gary and Valene still loved each other in Season 4 yes, but had they just got back together then, Gary and Val would not have developed as well as people in the following years as they did apart. Gary needed Abby at that time of his life, to compel him into responsibilities, whereas Val would have told Gary to keep his head down, while Val does all the other responsibilities herself instead of Gary, making Gary feel annoyed and inadequate that he is a "weak" man. Val was already doing that in Season 2, as Gary's affair with Judy was due to Gary feeling flattered at Judy looking up to him instead of him looking up to her like he did with Val. Judy misread the situation between Gary and Val completely, thinking that Gary had merely gone off Val. The opposite was true, as he didn't think he could match Val's strength ever and would feel lost without her. Abby had a strength herself that was closer to J.R., although aimed at helping Gary rather than breaking him.

It was all excellent writing. It shows why Season 3 Gary found Abby irresistible. It went beyond just sexual attraction, into the decisive emotional factor and Abby's personality of forcing Gary to face responsibilities. Val, in contrast, was treating Gary like a China doll, scared that Gary's addictions would see her lose him. Gary was a very different person when he got back together with Val all those years later, as was Val, and still in love, and now with the right dynamics to give the relationship more solid foundations. They'd have never become those different people with the stronger foundations in their relationship/marriage had they stayed together all along.
I usually hate storylines of cheating on spouses just to do soap things, but excellent points with Gary.....Gary had grown alot after getting sober again, Sid's death and his confrontations with JR. He needed Abby. He always loved Val, but he needed Abby to grow and in a strange way, Val knew it. That's why she didn't hate him. They remained connected because there was guilt left behind. He for cheating and leaving, and her for not giving what Gary needed, even he didn't know he needed Abby to "grow up" correctly. Gary was in a suspended adolescent. Again, JR was right about him, not wanting responsbility, not wanting to do the Ewing games, but with Abby he finally does. Too bad we didn't see JR come to KL in seasons 5 and 6 to see what litlte brother was doing. His appearances on Dallas were brief and not enlightening.
 
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Karin Schill

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There was a crossover with Knots Landing though when Gary went back for the reading of Jock's will where we see JR meet Gary and Abby. He definitely approved of his brother's new woman.

What is sorely missing however is a meeting between Miss Ellie and Abby. It would have been interesting to see how Miss Ellie would have reacted to her.

But yeah I agree that Gary grew up when he was with Abby. He had abandoned Lucy as a child but with Abby's children he finally got a chance to be a (step) father.
 
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Mustard

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I usually hate storylines of cheating on spouses just to do soap things, but excellent points with Gary.....Gary had grown alot after getting sober again, Sid's death and his confrontations with JR. He needed Abby. He always loved Val, but he needed Abby to grow and in a strange way, Val knew it. That's why she didn't hate him. They remained connected because there was guilt left behind. He for cheating and leaving, and her for not giving what Gary needed, even he didn't know he needed Abby to "grow up" correctly. Gary was in a suspended adolescent. Again, JR was right about him, not wanting responsbility, not wanting to do the Ewing games, but with Abby he finally does. Too bad we didn't see JR come to KL in seasons 5 and 6 to see what litlte brother was doing. His appearances on Dallas were brief and not enlightening.

Let's not forget that Gary couldn't bring himself to leave Val even in early Season 4. Gary was pleading with Val not to give up on them even then. It was Val that had to end it, and Gary had left the area just as Val changed her mind. Val then walked away with sadness, wondering if she had done the right thing. The famous parking lot scene.
 
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Jock's Ghost

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Let's not forget that Gary couldn't bring himself to leave Val even in early Season 4. Gary was pleading with Val not to give up on them even then. It was Val that had to end it, and Gary had left the area just as Val changed her mind. Val then walked away with sadness, wondering if she had done the right thing. The famous parking lot scene.
Yes, I almost forgot... VAL knew Gary did love her. He didn't cheat on her out of spite or being an ass, just that Val was not growing with him. Gary loved his Ewing money but would never admit it, but Abby did admit and she flaunted it and made him more money. Val was the only true character of the show. She did not pretend or act any other way than we expected.... Karen was to an extent, but often times she was a hypocrite or goody-two-shoes.
 

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Yes, I almost forgot... VAL knew Gary did love her. He didn't cheat on her out of spite or being an ass, just that Val was not growing with him. Gary loved his Ewing money but would never admit it, but Abby did admit and she flaunted it and made him more money. Val was the only true character of the show. She did not pretend or act any other way than we expected.... Karen was to an extent, but often times she was a hypocrite or goody-two-shoes.
When was Karen a hypocrite? I'm not doubting you. I just can't recall any specific examples.
 
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Karin Schill

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I can't seem to think of any occasion when Karen was a hypocrite either. :think:Sure there were conflicts in her character but I think some of them were plot motivated. For instance Karen was the kind of character who didn't want her kids to do drugs since they were bad. But she herself got hooked on prescription medicine and ended up going to rehab to get clean. Some people might say that is not living by example.
 

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Even then, there's a difference between getting hooked on a prescription and choosing to experiment with so-called recreational drugs.
 
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Karin Schill

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Absolutely. I think they did the whole Karen getting hooked on pills storyline very well. It seemed realistic and maybe it helped changing people's perceptions of what a drug-addict is like. So it did deal with an important topic and it was done in a different way compared to when Olivia started using drugs.

I love the scene where Val tells Karen that she loves her and that she needs to get help.
 
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