Lack of interaction between Miss Ellie and James

Sarah

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I dont think I'm going past Pam's exit. I remember watching it originally and hating it.
You should stay until Sue Ellen's exit although what happens between her and JR should never have been put on paper.

For me Sue Ellen leaving was the show over, not only because she is my favourite but because it destroyed JR's character.

Yeah maybe stop after Pam to save yourself from the heartache I was put through. Save Yourself!!!:run:
 

Brian Kinney

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Yes he cheated but the true love about Vanessa is bullshit.

I don’t accept the storyline and JR was a cheater.
I would have accepted it as "was" true love long before he met Sue-Ellen. I don't think it's necessary to mention all former partners and so I accept grown-up children turning up in soaps. But it was much easier to believe it with Jenna and Bobby because they shared a background. I had much difficulty to believe that J.R. of all people would fall in love with a British woman or vice versa why should a cultivated Vanessa fall for a young J.R. - the young man with the black stetson (standing beneath a younger Miss Ellie) and no manners in Dallas - The Early Years?



I always liked James though. Maybe the German dubbing helped his performance (voice!)?

However I think neither Vanessa, her son or even Michelle were responsible for what I disliked about Dallas latter seasons. For me the decline started with Bobby's return, the dream explanation and that Katzman obviously cared more about Hagman's wishes than consistency. Good writers could have done exciting stories after Bobby's death. The dream season was better than everything that followed. Pam's exit couldn't be undone because the actress wanted to go - so that wasn't their decision.

But there could have been rivalling stories for Sue-Ellen and Vanessa to manifest their son's positions into the Ewing's/Southfork's legacy. Instead of Sue-Ellen vs. the tramps (Holly, Marilee, Mandy, Kimberly). They should've continued James and Cally instead of introducing James' little family. Having a young couple that lives off J.R.'s money under his nose while sitting with him in the living-room - fun (and they almost did it)! Keeping Donna AND Jenna in triangle situations with Ray and Bobby (Jack, if Bobby hadn't returned). They had a lot of options to write a better show. The could have watched L.A. Law or St. Elsewhere for inspirations and get their writers instead of those who failed at other Lorimar's shows or Spelling's. In the end Sue-Ellen and Cliff Barnes should have owned Ewing Oil! They got Linda Gray for the finale and they weren't able to realize that it was over and that they had to find a real surprise twist. J.R. still could have the last laugh.

Miss Ellie and Clayton were more important to Dallas DNA than Katzman seemed to understand. No one lets an actress who is the critic's darling of the show go without a fight or more money to keep her. That was insane. Lucy was always good in delivering snarky comments about J.R. - that was missing when she was absent and they forget about it when she briefly returned. Even though I liked the Beaumonts except for Carter McKay (and to a lesser degree Cally) the latter seasons had no character that fit into Dallas and they trashed Carter with his horrible and useless family. The absolute low points for me were LeeAnn DeLa Vega with her stupid story and April's murder. After that I knew I will never have a rewatch of Dallas. I watched the TNT show and liked S1-2 more than most of anything that happened after Bobby's shower reappearance. At least J.R. in his fragile state was more J.R. than in Seasons 13-14 and I saw a huge potential with John-Ross and Pamela-Rebecca. But then it turned into CSI: Mexico and I understood it's better cancelled and never seen again. So sad. While Knots Landing never failed to entertain me, Dynasty delivered a decent final season and Falcon Crest at least tried something new in the end. But Dallas a TV milestone turned into crap that now could only be rebooted with a new start from the scratch. If ever.
 
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Sarah

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@Brian Kinney Vanessa? Not true love - first love maybe. Not - as was ridiculously written - the only woman he ever loved. What he meant by that was it was an idealistic unspoiled romance. At the TIME.

Even Lisa Seidman who wrote the ridiculous storyline told me that herself. Vanessa was a woman JR had idealised when he was younger. Sue Ellen was his true love and he tells us in the end she is ‘the only woman he ever loved’. (I asked the writer what she had meant by saying that about Vanessa and she was kind enough to chat back and forward about it).

Sue Ellen’s name doesn't have a hyphen. (I know but I mean...!:coffeelaugh:)

Larry didn’t even remember who Vanessa was when I asked him. And he asked for the writers to put things right between JR and Sue Ellen.

Sorry to go on. I detest that part of the show with a passion. The Beaumonts should never have existed.
 

Brian Kinney

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Larry didn’t even remember who Vanessa was when I asked him.
:)
Vanessa? Not true love - first love maybe. Not - as was ridiculously written - the only woman he ever loved. What he meant by that was it was an idealistic unspoiled romance. At the TIME. (...)
I think J.R. idealized Sue Ellen when he first met her as Miss Texas. But Sue Ellen didn't want to be a trophy wife and so this relationship was dysfunctional from the start because there was only one woman J.R. really loved - in Dallas' original run. Of course it's Miss Ellie! He had the respect of his father but Jock actually preferred Bobby to him and momma favoured Gary whom he detested for it. That was the family dynamic we know for sure. And that works as a decent psychological explanation why J.R. needed to succeed in business and didn't care enough for relationships with partners or within the family.

Yes J.R. told Sue Ellen that he loved her. He did it when it was convenient for him to reach his goal. Visitation rights or whatever concerning John Ross. For similar reasons J.R. would later profess his love to Cally. To get out of Haleyville or an asylum. J.R. gaslighted SueEllen into a second marriage. Or his tramps and escorts were not available for sex and he slowly started to respect Sue Ellen as a successful woman and he may have seen her then with different eyes and mindset. But I think J.R.'s love confessions to Sue Ellen were only true at the end (in TNT's Dallas). When it was too late for both to live as happy elder couple he honestly meant it - at least then I believed it too. :rip:

As fascinating Sue Ellen and J.R. were as a couple to watch I know it wasn't love what made them Dallas's main attraction: she hated him, he despised her most of the time, it was their battle to build love they hadn't in the beginning. The Beaumonts offered a lot of story options to deal with that if they've kept Sue Ellen - it would have been a mirror situation to early Pam and Bobby. Only it's J.R. who realizes it's Sue Ellen he has to fight for. Not an old flame who's trying to steal the thunder with his adult son and not the young new wife who would be better off with that adult son. That was my wishful thinking when the Beaumonts appeared and I would have loved it when Vanessa had copied Sue Ellen's American style and tried psycho tricks to get her out of the picture. Sue Ellen's female nemeses were never long around but this one would have more sense than the tramps. Classic Dallas lost the plot when they let Linda Gray go but thankfully TNT's Dallas repaired that and gave them closure (while destroying poor Cliff Barnes, but that's another story).
 
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Jock's Ghost

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@Jock's Ghost I would say that Pam’s exit is definitely the point of no return for me. At the time I kept watching til the end and there were still some flashes of greatness here and there but it really feels like a different show to me once the mummy makes its cameo.
YES! I just watched it recently and I was tempted to watch until Katherine shows up, but why bother. She was treated shabbily too. It's been discussed so many times, but the best way to deal with Bobby was either DO NOT kill him permanently (coma) or just have Pam dream his death/accident, not do the stupid erasing bullshit.
 

Jock's Ghost

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:)

I think J.R. idealized Sue Ellen when he first met her as Miss Texas. But Sue Ellen didn't want to be a trophy wife and so this relationship was dysfunctional from the start because there was only one woman J.R. really loved - in Dallas' original run. Of course it's Miss Ellie! He had the respect of his father but Jock actually preferred Bobby to him and momma favoured Gary whom he detested for it. That was the family dynamic we know for sure. And that works as a decent psychological explanation why J.R. needed to succeed in business and didn't care enough for relationships with partners or within the family.

Yes J.R. told Sue Ellen that he loved her. He did it when it was convenient for him to reach his goal. Visitation rights or whatever concerning John Ross. For similar reasons J.R. would later profess his love to Cally. To get out of Haleyville or an asylum. J.R. gaslighted SueEllen into a second marriage. Or his tramps and escorts were not available for sex and he slowly started to respect Sue Ellen as a successful woman and he may have seen her then with different eyes and mindset. But I think J.R.'s love confessions to Sue Ellen were only true at the end (in TNT's Dallas). When it was too late for both to live as happy elder couple he honestly meant it - at least then I believed it too. :rip:

As fascinating Sue Ellen and J.R. were as a couple to watch I know it wasn't love what made them Dallas's main attraction: she hated him, he despised her most of the time, it was their battle to build love they hadn't in the beginning. The Beaumonts offered a lot of story options to deal with that if they've kept Sue Ellen - it would have been a mirror situation to early Pam and Bobby. Only it's J.R. who realizes it's Sue Ellen he has to fight for. Not an old flame who's trying to steal the thunder with his adult son and not the young new wife who would be better off with that adult son. That was my wishful thinking when the Beaumonts appeared and I would have loved it when Vanessa had copied Sue Ellen's American style and tried psycho tricks to get her out of the picture. Sue Ellen's female nemeses were never long around but this one would have more sense than the tramps. Classic Dallas lost the plot when they let Linda Gray go but thankfully TNT's Dallas repaired that and gave them closure (while destroying poor Cliff Barnes, but that's another story).
this was the start of the JR as a loser. He should never have been in a sweeping romance. He was with Sue Ellen, he loved it, he didn't know why, but he was attracted to him because she hated him. He seemed to thrive on her not wanting him, yet she was attracted to his power, money, greed and accomplishment.
 

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

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As a viewer i would have welcomed alot less interaction with James too a truly awful character.

I don't think James was that bad.

He certainly helped to drive some of the storylines forward. The only thing which in my opinion negated his character was him as JR's first born son which took the focus off his son with Sue Ellen, John Ross Ewing the third. :(
 

DallasFanForever

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Agreed! No mention of Cally's child either. Both were canon but maybe Cynthia Cidre didn't see those episodes.
James should’ve been at J.R’s funeral at the very least. Not mentioning Cally’s child might be even more odd considering she was there herself.
 

Michelle Stevens

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James should’ve been at J.R’s funeral at the very least. Not mentioning Cally’s child might be even more odd considering she was there herself.
Not developing Cally's child on TNT Dallas or including James Beaumont seems like a mistake and could have been a great opportunity for more conflict in the series. Most mainstream Dallas fans, people who don't follow the series like we do on this board and only remember the peak years, 1980-1987 wouldn't know James or Cally's child. Cally's child was only mentioned in the final few episodes and seen once. I'm assuming that's the thinking of not including these two, but lazy use of the Dallas universe nevertheless.
 

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Not developing Cally's child on TNT Dallas or including James Beaumont seems like a mistake and could have been a great opportunity for more conflict in the series. Most mainstream Dallas fans, people who don't follow the series like we do on this board and only remember the peak years, 1980-1987 wouldn't know James or Cally's child. Cally's child was only mentioned in the final few episodes and seen once. I'm assuming that's the thinking of not including these two, but lazy use of the Dallas universe nevertheless.
Absolutely! They were both J.R.’s offspring and could’ve returned to take their piece of the Ewing fortune, both causing more headaches for John Ross and Christopher. Margaret and Lucas could’ve been factors as well. This was what I was kind of hoping for.
 

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The Cider House started watching "Dallas" when they aired Season 12 premiere, "Carousel". She clearly loved that season´s main protagonists (Carter McKay, Tommy McKay, Tracey Lawton and NuPam, the four of which were brought back (via re-casting) or used for one subplot or another). She also learned in that episode that whatever happens in one episode, can be erased in the next (Sue Ellen shooting JR) with no consequences at all. Of course, she also knew who Cally, James and Da Winger Tramp were, since they were such relevant characters for the show´s history. The first 11 seasons she knew through the Sue Ellen movie flashbacks. That´s the way it is, the Cider House way.

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"And that´s why I put in the Season 3 dvds´ ending,
my favorite quote: That´s all-ll folks!"​
 

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In the TNT reboot was the character of James ever referenced?
I don't believe so, no.
Not developing Cally's child on TNT Dallas or including James Beaumont seems like a mistake and could have been a great opportunity for more conflict in the series. Most mainstream Dallas fans, people who don't follow the series like we do on this board and only remember the peak years, 1980-1987 wouldn't know James or Cally's child. Cally's child was only mentioned in the final few episodes and seen once. I'm assuming that's the thinking of not including these two, but lazy use of the Dallas universe nevertheless.
And yet she was introducing a never-before-heard-of daughter with a never-before-heard-of mother. :confuse:
 

Monzo

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I wonder if Miss Ellie and James had little to do with each other because the age difference didn't fit. I always thought James was too young as the son that JR fathered after finishing school - was it high school or college? Was it because of Miss Ellie that a younger actor was cast as James so that Miss Ellie didn't look too old?

Who was actually older: Lucy or James? In season 13, Lucy was obviously supposed to be older, but if you do the math, James should have been a few years older than Lucy, right?
 
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