Milli Vanilli

[Monzo]

Milli Vanilli are back in the media this fall. First there will be a documentary on Paramount+, then a German-language film about the duo that didn't sing will be released in December. Here are both trailers:

What memories do you have of Milli Vanilli? Did you like their music? Were you shocked by the scandal?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

What I heard at the time was that the same producer who'd made them do the lip-synch thing was also the person who punitively outted the scam when they'd displeased him or rebelled in some way.

Don't know if that accurate or not. Maybe this will tell us.

 

[Friend!Food! Oleson]

Were you shocked by the scandal?

I never listened to their music so the impact on me personally wasn't very big. However, I did wonder how Farian managed to find two black guys who couldn't sing.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I’ve always found it kind of ironic that when the track got stuck on “Girl You Know It’s, Girl You Know It’s, Girl You Know It’s....” that the next word to follow would’ve been “True.” Kind of sums it all up.

 

[tommie]

I never listened to their music so the impact on me personally wasn't very big. However, I did wonder how Farian managed to find two black guys who couldn't sing.

True - you'd think it would be easier to just find two hot black guys who could instead of having two who'd lipsynch.

Then again, a lot of Eurodance tracks at the time would have chorus vocals sung by black ladies while on stage they'd have pretty svelte models miming to the track, so maybe it was just a thing that was done at the time.

 

[Brian Kinney]

I never listened to their music so the impact on me personally wasn't very big. However, I did wonder how Farian managed to find two black guys who couldn't sing.

He already did that with Boney M where Frank Farian was the male voice. I was surprised that anyone was surprised about the Milli Vanilli debacle because the German press hinted about the non-singers regularly and Farian didn't even bother denying it. I'm sure it wasn't a shock to Europeans because Boney M had a few hits in European charts, almost as successful as Abba for a few years. Farian himself had one hit in the 1970s German charts and appeared on TV, his voice was recognizable. The music industry was well aware what happened behind the scenes and I never believed that the US division of their record company was clueless. I will not watch the documentary because I've seen one a few years ago on Arte and the guys didn't have an interesting story. I think they were naive and thought they were more important than Farian. But they weren't and their looks were all what they had - when they were young. If they hadn't become greedy the technical "accident" wouldn't have happened.

 

[tommie]

I'm sure it wasn't a shock to Europeans because Boney M had a few hits in European charts, almost as successful as Abba for a few years.

I don't think it was - I'm too young to remember any particular outrage at the time, but on Eurodance/techno tracks popular at the time and until the mid-90s it was well-known that the ladies "singing" in the videos/at performances weren't the real vocalists even as a kid, as an example. So I think here we were more used to having more attractive models fronting other peoples vocals.

I think the reason why it blew up was because of the Grammy award scandal, them explicitly crediting the models as vocalists on the album and then the US consumer fraud cases.

 

[Brian Kinney]

I never understood the consumer fraud angle. Can people in the US sue authors who have ghostwriters writing their books? Or Audrey Hepburn for not singing in My Fair Lady? Someone recently tried to sue a film company because they've left actress Ana de Armas in the trailer for a film, Yesterday, in which all of her scenes were cut, to no avail.

I assume the distinction you point out "explicitly crediting the models as vocalists on the album" was the big mistake made by the record company. But as far as I recall there were no similar suits outside the US.

 

[Friend!Food! Oleson]

Then again, a lot of Eurodance tracks at the time would have chorus vocals sung by black ladies while on stage they'd have pretty svelte models miming to the track, so maybe it was just a thing that was done at the time.

I guess it depends on the level of artist profile. Most eurodance acts (and also many disco acts from the 1970s) were essentially studio projects. The fact that these songs charted and became pop hits doesn't automatically make the performers pop artists.
Milli Vanilli (and their eurodance counterpart Two Unlimited) was the whole package whereas nobody cared who did the actual vocals for Italo dance act Cappella. Cappella was producer Gianfranco Bortolotti, founder of the successful Media Records label.
I consider most dance music (as in, specifically designed for the dancefloor) to be "mood" music with very little artistic value. Naturally, it takes a creative producer to come up with the good ones.
99% of all the eurodance is absolute sh*t. I have the other 1% in my collection. Only accept the best, nothing less.

He already did that with Boney M where Frank Farian was the male voice

I believe Bobby II did his own vocals.

 

[Monzo]

Frank Farian, founder of Milli Vanilli has died.

Frank Farian, the Man Behind Milli Vanilli, Is Dead at 82

He had worldwide success with the disco group Boney M. He was better known for a duo that had hit records but, it turned out, only pretended to sing.

www.nytimes.com

In 1976 Frank Farian had a number 1 hit in Germany that seemed to have been inspired by Paul Anka's 70s comeback in the USA.

By the way, the much-hyped Milli Vanilli film was a flop in German cinemas. The film is still showing in some theaters and may see a boost following the death of Frank Farian.

Kino-Total.net

Das unabhängige Filmmagazin.

kino-total.net

 

[Ome]

I bought their album 2X2 on vinyl from a second hand site, remembering that k had it back in the 80s. I forgot how brilliant it is, every track is a winner.

What memories do you have of Milli Vanilli? Did you like their music? Were you shocked by the scandal?

I was shocked to learn they weren’t the real singers and then I felt sorry for them. I remember reading about one of them attempting suicide after the scandal, but cant remember the full story.

 

[AndyB2008]

I don't think it was - I'm too young to remember any particular outrage at the time, but on Eurodance/techno tracks popular at the time and until the mid-90s it was well-known that the ladies "singing" in the videos/at performances weren't the real vocalists even as a kid, as an example. So I think here we were more used to having more attractive models fronting other peoples vocals.

I think the reason why it blew up was because of the Grammy award scandal, them explicitly crediting the models as vocalists on the album and then the US consumer fraud cases.

Jinny's Keep Warm video featured TV presenter Carryl Varley, who also fronted the act on Top of The Pops, but the real vocals are from American singer Bernice Watkins, as her song Takin Him Off Your Hands is sampled.

The Keep Warm bits are samples from Voices In The Dark's Keep it Warm. Carryl has nothing to do with the singing.

The Italian project Corona had Olga De Souza lipsynching for other singers in their videos. (Sandra Chambers actually sang Baby Baby and Try Me Out, and Jenny Bersola actually sang Rhythm of The Night)

 

[AndyB2008]

I never understood the consumer fraud angle. Can people in the US sue authors who have ghostwriters writing their books? Or Audrey Hepburn for not singing in My Fair Lady? Someone recently tried to sue a film company because they've left actress Ana de Armas in the trailer for a film, Yesterday, in which all of her scenes were cut, to no avail.

I assume the distinction you point out "explicitly crediting the models as vocalists on the album" was the big mistake made by the record company. But as far as I recall there were no similar suits outside the US.

Some of the actors on the Sound Of Music never sang.

Nor did the voices on the Freddie as F.R.0.7 film. (Barbara Dickson sings for Phyllis Logan, and Grace Jones for Billie Whitelaw).

 

[AndyB2008]

The lipsynching on songs has continued into the 2000's, although the actual singers have to be credited nowadays following the legislation brought by Martha Wash's case.

The woman who did the vocals in the video for Wamdue Project's King Of My Castle, Victoria Frigerio, was not the actual singer. (Gaelle Addison did the actual singing)

General Hospital's Kelly Thiebaud lipsynchs the vocals of Chris Willis and Constandia Costi in the videos of David Guetta's Love Is Gone and Baby When The Lights Go Out.

Milky's Just The Way You Are has German singer Giuditta doing the singing, but the music video uses model Sabrina Elahl to lipsync Giuditta's voice.

Could go back to 1991, when Saffron from Republica pretended to be Gwen Guthrie (as portions of Peanut Butter were sampled), Darlene Davis (as portions of I Found Love were sampled) and Caron Wheeler (as her acapella from Back to Life was sampled) in the video to N-Joi's Anthem.

 

[Monzo]

In addition to Milli Vanilli, there is another lipsynching scandal: Den Harrow, who has been successful in a number of European and Asian countries. The documentary "Dons of Disco" is dedicated to the Den Harrow scandal.

What surprises me about Den Harrow is how long it went well: three charted albums with twelve charted singles and sometimes even different real singers and yet Den Harrow was able to stay in various charts from 1984 to 1993.

 

[Haunting Ghostbreath]

In addition to Milli Vanilli, there is another lipsynching scandal: Den Harrow, who has been successful in a number of European and Asian countries. The documentary "Dons of Disco" is dedicated to the Den Harrow scandal.

What surprises me about Den Harrow is how long it went well: three charted albums with twelve charted singles and sometimes even different real singers and yet Den Harrow was able to stay in various charts from 1984 to 1993.

I never heard of this artist Den Harrow and his scandel before, i do remember the scandel abour Millie Vanillie, i liked a few songs of them but never bought any record from Millie Vanillie i think i would be heartbroken if i would become a huge fan.

But i like to see this documentary of Den Harrow.

 

[Friend!Food! Oleson]

The Italian project Corona had Olga De Souza lipsynching for other singers in their videos. (Sandra Chambers actually sang Baby Baby and Try Me Out, and Jenny Bersola actually sang Rhythm of The Night)

In addition to Milli Vanilli, there is another lipsynching scandal: Den Harrow, who has been successful in a number of European and Asian countries.

Apparently it's different in some countries but in the Netherlands dance music was about the songs and almost never about the artists.
I don't think anyone cared about the true vocal identities of Corona, Cappella, Whigfield or Captain Hollywood Project.
Milli Vanilli was much more of a visible pop act which makes it easier for people to become a fan.

Strange that they invested in Den Harrow's career at the expense of Tom Hooker since Tom was obviously the better looking one - but maybe not from a 1980s Italian point of view. Perhaps the blond boy face was considered more exotic at that time. There was also blond Sandy Marton who actually had a charthit with "People From Ibiza".
Funny about the name "dinero", I had never made that connection.

I got lots of "faceless" dance music from labels specialized in pop/house dance, lots of different artist names on the covers but often sung by one and the same singer.

Can you guess who it is?
And can you guess whose bandwagon they jumped on when they created this track?

 

[tommie]

Strange that they invested in Den Harrow's career at the expense of Tom Hooker since Tom was obviously the better looking one - but maybe not from a 1980s Italian point of view. Perhaps the blond boy face was considered more exotic at that time.

I think Den Harrow (at the time) looked more boy-ish and more likely to appeal to the young teenage girl audience at a guess. Tom Hooker looked very much like an adult man.

 

[Matthew Blaisdel]

I think Den Harrow (at the time) looked more boy-ish and more likely to appeal to the young teenage girl audience

Not only!

 

[Friend!Food! Oleson]

I think Den Harrow (at the time) looked more boy-ish and more likely to appeal to the young teenage girl audience at a guess

Ironically, commercial Italo disco (and later 90s Italo dance) quickly became a predominantly straight male's niche genre, while the SAW/PWL factory maintained its gay following.