Patricia and Christopher

Mel O'Drama

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Was Patricia aware on her Dream Season return that Christopher was her biological grandson?

While she'd no doubt be able to rationalise or overlook Kristin's role in the proceedings, there was also perhaps some dramatic potential had she found out onscreen. Perhaps Pam feeling unsettled by Patricia's new devotion to Christopher. Or Patricia coming into conflict with Sue Ellen for not telling her sooner.

I'm also intrigued by what kind of a relationship Patricia might have wanted with both Christopher and John Ross throughout their teens and early twenties (assuming she was still around). Would she have offered her "guidance" in the same way she did with her daughters? Or would she simply have been happy to know they were being raised by Texan royalty?
 

Richard Channing

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, there was also perhaps some dramatic potential had she found out onscreen. Perhaps Pam feeling unsettled by Patricia's new devotion to Christopher. Or Patricia coming into conflict with Sue Ellen for not telling her sooner.

I'd never thought about this angle before and it absolutely had plenty of dramatic potential. I like the idea of conflict between both her and Pam and and her and Sue Ellen over Christopher. Why not even have Patricia and Miss Ellie come to blows over it too. Also, thinking about it the Lisa Alden story line would have been so much better with Patricia being the one seeking custody instead.
 

Mel O'Drama

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Why not even have Patricia and Miss Ellie come to blows over it too.

There are so many angles to this, aren't there? I can't even remember if Ellie knew about this, but I'm thinking not. I kind of like the idea of the family trying to keep things from Ellie while the tension created by Patricia's newfound knowledge makes her wonder what's going on.

Also, thinking about it the Lisa Alden story line would have been so much better with Patricia being the one seeking custody instead.

Oh yes!!
 

Willie Oleson

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would have been so much better with Patricia being the one seeking custody instead.
For the sake of drama, definitely. Not that I believe she'd actually want to raise a granchild, let alone a boy.
And since the whole point was to get her daughters into "a" Southfork, why take the grandchild out of it?

But what if she had tried to manipulate Sue Ellen to fight for custody? Then it would be much more officially her grandchild.
 

DallasFanForever

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I would assume that both Ellie and Patricia would’ve found out at some point, considering it all became public record during the Lisa Alden custody suit.

There’s a scene when Bobby visits Sue Ellen at Valentine Lingerie to warn her about the upcoming hearing and that a lot of “old dirty laundry” is about to get aired out or something like that.

So it’s safe to say that eventually everyone knew but I agree that not revisiting it was a missed opportunity in the later years.
 

Richard Channing

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Not that I believe she'd actually want to raise a granchild, let alone a boy.
And since the whole point was to get her daughters into "a" Southfork, why take the grandchild out of it?
I couldn't see her wanting to raise a young boy either but maybe if JR promised to make her very comfortable she might come around to the idea? Appealing to her gold digging instincts rather than her not so well developed maternal ones.

But what if she had tried to manipulate Sue Ellen to fight for custody? Then it would be much more officially her grandchild.
Although that would be interesting I couldn't see Sue Ellen being up for taking Bobby's child after he just lost his wife.
 

James from London

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I can't even remember if Ellie knew about this, but I'm thinking not. I kind of like the idea of the family trying to keep things from Ellie while the tension created by Patricia's newfound knowledge makes her wonder what's going on.
The only ones that knew about Kristin's connection to Christopher (or indeed Kristin's affair with JR) were JR, Sue Ellen, Bobby and Pam - that is, until the Lisa Alden court case when suddenly everyone seemed to have known all along. There was never a moment when they found out. Likewise, Sue Ellen's original affair with Cliff. It's all top secret while JR and Sue Ellen are married, but then Miss Ellie suddenly refers to it when Sue Ellen starts seeing Cliff again after she and JR divorced. "This thing almost destroyed the three of you before," Ellie says - and that's the first time we know she knows.

It's kind of the opposite of the New DALLAS episode 'Hurt' where the truth about JR's illness and death and masterplan and what he did to the Ramos family finally comes out, along with who knew precisely what and when, and we get to see every character's response to each individual revelation.
 

Chris2

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I think Sue Ellen and the others very wisely kept Christopher’s parentage a secret from Patricia. They knew how much trouble that awful woman would cause and realized that Christopher would be better off not being exposed to that witch.
 

Miss Texas 1967

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It's weird in itself that Sue Ellen was pushed by Patricia to be so demure and proper to find a husband but Kristin felt free enough to literally be sleeping her way around Dallas and end up having a child out of wedlock. They both had access to funds from wealthy men but only for Sue Ellen was it "socially acceptable" to acknowledge that, Kristin was more of a mistress than anything and that was not spoken of in polite company. Kristin and Patricia might have been a very interesting pairing to watch if she had lived longer.
 

the-lost-son

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It's a trait of cheap daytime soaps that an event leads to reaction of every cast member for multiple episodes.

Dallas was different. Mysteries like Cliff possibly the father of John Ross were kept to a close number of characters.

JR, Sue Ellen, Cliff living with the uncertainty. Pam/Bobby feeling uneasy if Digger makes a scene about the newborn grandson:

It's the character driven storylines that made it so compelling instead of short term plot-driven reactions for drama.

Of course, they missed a huge opportunity to explore Christopher's biological parents and grandmother. She should have sued for custody. They should have showed Christopher's darker character in TNT Dallas as well. Sue Ellen feeling responsible as his aunt by birth as well. Christopher being the bad guy, trying to prove he's a Ewing... endless "character-driven" possibilities... Instead we got Lisa Arden, "Is it because I'm adopted?" and a car bomb.
 
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the-lost-son

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It's kind of the opposite of the New DALLAS episode 'Hurt' where the truth about JR's illness and death and masterplan and what he did to the Ramos family finally comes out, along with who knew precisely what and when, and we get to see every character's response to each individual revelation.
Exactly. Good example.

I didn‘t like this storyline when each episode somebody else got to show his reaction to the letter which proved JR screwing over the old Ramos.
What‘s the point if the cook is mad now as well?

The way Dallas was written in the early years is unrivaled in my opinion. The audience wasn’t underestimated. They didn‘t slam each reaction in your face.
It was just fine to have the drama about baby Christopher restricted to JR/Sue Ellen and Bobby/Pam. Where was no need that the full cast gives their two cents to each situation. Cheap shows do that primarily to fill time and give the impression of drama.
 

Rove

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The audience wasn’t underestimated
I think that's where writers and producers struggle with today's viewing audience. I'm not talking about the the likes of The Sopranos or Mad Men but the genre of adult contemporary drama with the soapy element. In its early seasons Dallas never treated it audience with the nod-nod, wink-wink approach. The series was helmed by talented people behind the scenes with accomplished actors...and all was revealed on the small screen for our viewing pleasure.

If we study TNT Dallas it was presented as adult drama however the plot and retconned characters killed any chance of of it succeeding. There is something to be said for studying the success of early Lorimar Dallas and not mirroring the failure where Lorimar Dallas ended up.
 

Rove

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Mysteries like Cliff possibly the father of John Ross were kept to a close number of characters.
That's an interesting perception and something I've never contemplated. When I get around to watching Lorimar Dallas for the umpteenth time I'll pay closer inspection to this plot. In the above video with Digger holding John Ross I like how the camera remains focused on Digger and his reactions while we hear the voices of Jock and Miss Ellie. Excellent direction.
 

the-lost-son

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I think that's where writers and producers struggle with today's viewing audience. I'm not talking about the the likes of The Sopranos or Mad Men but the genre of adult contemporary drama with the soapy element. In its early seasons Dallas never treated it audience with the nod-nod, wink-wink approach. The series was helmed by talented people behind the scenes with accomplished actors...and all was revealed on the small screen for our viewing pleasure.

If we study TNT Dallas it was presented as adult drama however the plot and retconned characters killed any chance of of it succeeding. There is something to be said for studying the success of early Lorimar Dallas and not mirroring the failure where Lorimar Dallas ended up.
Exactly. Lorimar Dallas is unrivaled in that aspect.
Take another example - Bobby&Pam divorced after Katherine's forged letter. The letter wasn't mentioned until season's finale. No flashbacks in contrast to Jr's letter in TNT Dallas. They trusted the audience intellectually.

In the same plot the audience knew that Bobby&Pam were kept apart by circumstances (Mark Graison sick, Bobby engaged, but timing all the way). Or Miss Ellie having doubts about her marriage to Clayton grounded in her mastectomy 4 years ago (a lifetime in TV business).
The audience was given space to think and remind. Something for example Dynasty never did and never worked for me (judging by the little I watched)
 

Rove

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They trusted the audience intellectually.
It's been one of my pet peeves - though I cannot think of recent examples, except for daytime soaps - where the audience is dumb-downed. As in the case you mentioned where Katherine's letter was revealed later in the season this sets up beautifully what is to come when Pam and Bobby have a quiet conversation at Pam's home where the circumstances of the letter is revealed. Of course the payoff for the audience was when Pam confronts Katherine and slaps her into the next century. I bet many viewers took great delight in watching that scene...much like when Krystle discovers the true cause of her miscarriage over on Dynasty and confronts Alexis in the studio.

When writers are prepared to lay the groundwork I believe viewers are prepared to go along for the ride. This is good story-telling because the payoff can reach orgasmic levels.
 

Top Jimmy

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I agree with Chris2 that Patricia was a troublemaker, and Christopher was better off without her in his life. Sue Ellen did him a favor by not telling Patricia. I don't think she would ever sue for custody though if she had known. She might have been upset with Sue Ellen for not telling her, but Patricia would have been thrilled that he was living a privileged and pampered life as a Ewing. The writers did waste some potential drama in Sue Ellen not discussing Kristin in more substantial detail with Patricia in the dream season. She should have asked her if she knew that Kristin had an affair with JR or make a comment like "Even if you didn't know, I have a feeling you would have approved. Hell, you probably encouraged her." I wonder how Kristin explained to Patricia why she was moving to California after JR was shot or if they kept in touch the year before she died. The last time we saw them together, Patricia asked Kristin to keep her informed about Sue Ellen. Could you imagine how Patricia might have reacted if she had known Kristin ended up marrying a sleazy drug dealer!
 

Justine

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I think Patricia's involvement in Christopher's early years was such a missed opportunity, especially in season 5. She could have been even more manipulative than before and stirred trouble between Sue Ellen and the family, maybe convincing her to fight for custody of Christopher so she could guarantee even more financial support from J.R. - I suppose the main reason the writers didn't take that route was because Pam needed a baby and they were never too interested in dynamics that stretched too far from the core family members.

Ultimately though, I don't think Patricia held any real interest in John Ross or Christopher beyond their status in Dallas as Ewing heirs.
 

Miss Texas 1967

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I think Patricia's involvement in Christopher's early years was such a missed opportunity, especially in season 5. She could have been even more manipulative than before and stirred trouble between Sue Ellen and the family, maybe convincing her to fight for custody of Christopher so she could guarantee even more financial support from J.R. - I suppose the main reason the writers didn't take that route was because Pam needed a baby and they were never too interested in dynamics that stretched too far from the core family members.
Interestingly they also glossed over Patricia's relation to Christopher when they had Bobby go to Sue Ellen to get her to sign the doc to say she agreed to the adoption as Christopher's 'only known relative' or whatever they referred to her as.
 

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Patricia is one of those characters I appreciate a lot more now than I did back then. I used to look at her as nothing more than a big troublemaker. But when I watch her scenes now, especially her heart to heart talk with Sue Ellen later on, I tend to feel a little sorry for her. I think her heart was really in the right place at times but she just went about things the wrong way. I feel bad for her losing Kristen, despite her hand in helping “creating the monster” to a certain extent, and I think it’s a shame she was never able to have a relationship with Kristin’s son. So sad!
 
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