Rewatching Knots Landing

[Karin Schill]

Hi Everyone,

I'm currently in the process of Re-watching Knots Landing and thought that I'd share some thoughts with you.

But first of all some backstory to give you an understanding of when and how I watched the show originally.

When Knots was originally on TV I was too young to watch it but my dad watched it. The show was named "JR's bror" on Swedish TV. I am not kidding you. It was marketed as "JR's Brother".
It was back in the late 1980's before the show ever made it to Sweden and back then Dallas was still very popular here in Sweden.

Anyway I first saw Knots Landing in reruns in the 1990's. I saw season 1-6 in 1996-1997. But then Swedish TV stopped showing it. I guess they had only bought those seasons in the original run and therefore only rerun those seasons. I wrote to the TV channel but nope they didn't get any more episodes.

So after that I was left hanging with the Val spots her babies cliffhanger for three years until a friend in the UK copied some episodes for me on VHS from UK Gold. I don't remember how much of the show she copied for me. Anyway after that I was again left hanging from 2000 until around 2006 when a friend in the US copied me some episodes and then finally a friend from this board copied me the final seasons so I finally got to watch it all. But I think it was around 2010 when I finally saw the last episodes of Knots Landing. Oh and also another friend from this board copied me the reunion with arabic subtitles!

Anyway since the quality of the recordings varies greatly I really wish Knots Landing would get an official DVD release. But well since it doesn't seem to be happening I figured it was about time that I'd try to rewatch the show all in one go. Since honestly I don't think I have done that before. I did re-watch the beginning of the show before starting to watch one of these runs but I don't remember if it was in 2006 or earlier.

Anyway my point is it's been a long time since I've watched the show so it was time for a rewatch!

So well tonight we watched the episode where Sid dies...

I remember the first time I watched this episode it brought tears to my eyes. Amazingly I watched the show unspoiled and had no idea that Sid was dying. So it was quite a shock as I had expected him to live.

This time watching the episode I knew what was going to happen and it made me feel angry or annoyed. I didn't want Sid to die since the show was never the same after he died and early on Sid & Karen were my favorite couple on the show. They were like the only couple who weren't cheating on each other and they represented this normal middle class family in the suburbs.

Anyway the episode still gets under my skin. I love the gritty realism feeling to it. It's slow pacing and that you feel like you are a fly on the wall watching these peoples everyday life.

The shots at the end when the doctor brings Karen outdoors and tell her and you don't hear what he says and later how you watch the scene from a distance when she tells the kids is effective in it's own way and then that goodbye tape and starts playing over them going home until you see Karen sitting alone and crying in their room. It's all just so sad and heartbreaking and great drama.

That's all for now but I will revisit this thread and share my thoughts as we keep watching.

Take care,
Best wishes:
Karin.

 

[Karin Schill]

Okay so tonight it was the episode when Lilimae moved in.

I must say that I really enjoyed this episode. The character of Lilimae is funny. She is very selfish and a bit of a conartist when she shows up. I had forgotten how she left the hotel without paying her bill and took out her posessions in the trash.

Poor Val and Gary for getting that lecture from the judge about how they needed to take care of her mother who was crying out for help after being caught shop-lifting. Val so didn't deserve that and I can sense her frustration and yet she takes her mother in because she loves her. I love their heart to heart talk. Despite that Lilimae hasn't done much to deserve it she has her daughter's love.

The ending when Lilimae wanted to feed the a big breakfast and had made a mess out of their kitchen was so funny too. She is quite the character and yet likable in a way. I think Julie Harris did a great job portraying her.

I also think Lilimae adds an older character to the show and it's needed. We now have three generations of characters. I think the fact that it's the Ewings who has her mother living with them also makes a lot of sense considering Gary's Texas family's living arrangements.

Meanwhile Abby's kids are still missing. I actually feel bad for her. I know she's a bitch but in some ways I still root for her. I love her.

Karen is sorting through Sid's things in the garage. I like that she is still grieving and moving through the different steps. Doing everyday things that needs to be done. The show is really good at keeping the storylines going for several episodes.

So well that's all my thoughts for now.

 

[tommie]

Anyway I first saw Knots Landing in reruns in the 1990's. I saw season 1-6 in 1996-1997. But then Swedish TV stopped showing it. I guess they had only bought those seasons in the original run and therefore only rerun those seasons. I wrote to the TV channel but nope they didn't get any more episodes.

Ugh, yes. I also watched it at that time and even often skipped school to do so. The fact that they ended with that cliffhanger pisses me off beyond belief. I've finally gotten a hold on the complete series, so I pretty much sped through seasons 1-6 and I'm finally on season seven which is uncharted territory for me.

Meanwhile Abby's kids are still missing. I actually feel bad for her. I know she's a bitch but in some ways I still root for her. I love her.

See, just like Amanda on Melrose Place I feel Abby's reputation as "the bitch" is a bit overblown - the only reason Abby's often seen that way is because the other female characters are usually so nicey-nice. She does some dubious things, but in all honesty often it has to do with business and getting ahead. She never forced Gary to cheat either, hell that guy is the definition of a serial cheater anyway.

 

[Karin Schill]

That is great news that you've finally gotten a hold of the rest of the show now @tommie
Enjoy watching it it's a real treat.

Oh and yeah I agree it sucked that they left us with that cliffhanger. It was totally unfair!

True about Gary being a serial cheater. It's not like Abby was the first woman he cheated on Val with.

Speaking of Abby I watched the episode where she gets her kids back from Jeff tonight.

I really enjoyed this episode too as it showed that Abby was not to be messed with. I don't think she's ever been this cruel before. But Jeff sort of brought it on himself for kidnapping the kids. It was not cool. So I can see why she wanted to get back at him and since the law didn't do anything to help her she took the matter into her own hands.

Her cunning side really came out tonight and she seemed to enjoy herself as she was playing a game with Jeff.

I don't feel sorry for him in the end when he loses. I do feel sorry for their kids though who are now deprived of their father's company instead of their mothers. So by hurting Jeff Abby is also hurting her kids as she is not doing what is best for them. So the fair thing to do would be to let him keep the visitation rights but never be alone with the kids. He did violate her trust when he kidnapped them.

Anyway it was funny how Lilimae was like a "TT kärring" that kept track of how long Jeff had stayed at Abby's by looking out the window!

It was also great to see Karen turn into this capable sales woman. Despite everything she's going through she seems to enjoy working.

 

[Daniel Avery]

I believe this is the episode where Lilimae has a line that pretty much speaks for the whole audience.
"What's the sense of living in a cul-de-sac, honey, if you can't snoop?

I always liked this wise quip from our suspicious Karen:
Jeff: "I know it's hard to believe, but Abby's changed. Believe me, she's a totally different person."
Karen: "You'd better check her fingerprints."

 

[Karin Schill]

Oh yes Lilimae did say that line in tonight's episode.

I agree about the fingerprints comment. That piece of dialogue was great and made me laugh.

 

[Karin Schill]

Tonight it was the ghost house episode. "The Three Sisters" and I just knew instinctively before the title came up that it was that episode since it began with shoots of the house.

I think there's something creepy about this episode. I think it's a combination of the music and the storytelling with Joan Van Ark's acting. The episode could have become silly but it keeps a good balance and also uses the characters to tell the story. We already know since before that Val had her little girl taken from her and didn't get to raise her. Therefore we buy it when the other characters talk about how Val's mother need is frustrated and therefore the ghosts have chosen her to be their new mommy.

There is also a bit of the unknown thrown into it and there are stuff that has no natural explaination. But having heard the Abby tell the story of the ghosts in the house you realize that it's the ghosts or supernatural activitiy/spirits that's causing it. The way the episode is filmed using a bunch of POV shots from a distance also makes you believe that someone is watching them when they arrive at the house etc.

So overall I found this episode strangely effective and I suppose it was originally broadcast around Halloween as it's once removed from the rest of the plots. Just checked IMDB and no it was not a Halloween episode. Strange as it had Halloween episode written all over it!

 

[Willie Oleson]

Jeff: "I know it's hard to believe, but Abby's changed. Believe me, she's a totally different person."
Karen: "You'd better check her fingerprints."

Well of course she hadn't changed, but this is also a way to establish Abby as the show's antagonist, especially if that feeling is expressed by a peron like Karen Fairgate.

But whenever Abby and Greg battled over something, I thought their methods were equally underhanded.
Unlike the other soap villains, Abby wasn't a hateful and destructive person. And she wasn't even that bitchy, apart from that I-outfoxed-them-smile.
She was shrewd, calculated, determined and charmingly manipulative - and sometimes at the expense of someone else's happiness, business or marriage.
Then again, one could argue that "not caring about other people's well-being" is just as bad as "caring enough to harm another person". I don't know...

The most likeable aspect of Abby was her relationship with her niece and nephews, she was the coolest aunt ever (and sometimes that made Karen look like the "bad cop")

 

[Seaviewer]

The episode could have become silly but it keeps a good balance and also uses the characters to tell the story.

This is one of the more controversial episodes but I agree with you: it's really a character piece that uses the unusual setting to reveal more about them than we would otherwise see.

 

[Karin Schill]

So it has officially started...in Powerplay Gary went into business with Abby in the metanol deal in Mexico and the two of them shared their first kiss or was it more (?) at a very non-romantic location!

So well Gary and Val has started to drift apart and Gary is graviating towards Abby who is reeling him in. Not that I mind that much as I enjoyed Abby and Gary too even though I always rooted for Gary and Val.

Oh and Lilimae managed to become a backup singer on one of Kenny's artists recordings. I love Kenny's facial expression when he found out and also getting Lilimae's tape when he wanted to relax at home.

 

[Daniel Avery]

Lucy's determination to get Ricky to let her be in the show was always funny.

Oops, I mean Lilimae and Kenny, of course. How could I have made that mistake?

 

[Chris2]

Abby and Karen together are always entertaining. They can't stand each other, but they are always bonded through Sid.

And I love Abby's snarky side. At one point around season 6, she is constantly having to deal with Gary's ex wife and mother in law, and she makes a comment to one of the other characters about "our little extended family". LOL. And of course, there's her sage advice to Jill, the soon-to-be third Mrs Ewing: "The first Mrs. Ewing doesn't go away. Ever."

 

[Karin Schill]

Tonight it was "Letting go"...

An excellent episode that dealt with Karen's loss of Sid and how she felt it was time to let go and move on. It seemed realistic except that I think if this was happening in real life it would take longer than on the show. I mean it hasn't even been a year since Sid died and the first year after losing someone is always the hardest. So I think in real life this process would probably take at least two-three years.

I love the silly home movies that they watched with the sad music. It was bittersweet since you could tell from watching the movies how happy they had been and what a void Sid's death had left in their lives.

The scene at the end is very poignant when she takes off the ring.

Oh and I really enjoyed the storyline of her brother and his ex-girlfriend patching things up too. They made a nice contrast to Karen who was dealing with the loss of her marriage, since they were just starting out and talking marriage and kids. So they still had all ahead of them.

Val and Abby's confrontation at the end was great too when she told her that she'd keep her eye on her.

A question though, how do you interpret the scene with Gary and Abby in Mexico? (in powerplay)

Did they just kiss or did something more happen between them then?

I used to think they just kissed at that point. But I am not sure how to interpret it now as it was cut in a way that indicated something more could have happened.

 

[Mustard]

Gary couldn't resist Abby for one big reason beyond the obvious lustful reason. He needed challenging at that time in his life, to be pushed to accept responsibilities. Val was doing the opposite, treating him like a china doll who needed to accept a 9-5 job and the routine life. Remember though that Val ended it in the car park scene in early Season 4, while Gary was pleading "give us a chance!". Val seemed to change her mind, but Gary had gone away heartbroken. In the long run, it was better for both of them to split at that point.

Another irony is that the character closest to Abby in Seasons 2-3, especially Season 2, was Val. Val actually persuaded Abby to stay in Knots Landing rather than carry on to San Diego.

 

[Julia's Gun]

I'm very fond of Letting Go - it's a turning point in Season 3 and everything speeds up more dramatically via Night and China Dolls to the cliffhanger. In fact Letting Go S3 thru to Rise and Fall in Season 7 is the best period of the show, almost flawless for the most part.

When Val says she better keep an eye on Abby in future, doesn't Abby reply something like: 'Yes do - How else are you gonna learn?'(!) Lol.

Some fab dialogue and scenes there, topped off by Michele Lee ad libbing by Sid's graveside as she slips of her real-life wedding ring. A DVD of this season would be nice some day. I didn't used to be much of a fan until the 4th season, but now I think 3 is one of the best.

 

[Karin Schill]

Oh yeah the show is definitely picking up some speed here. We watched the season finale tonight. "Living Dangeriously."

First of all it just occured to me that the season three DVD release of Knots can't have been held up due to a music rights issue as Lisa Hartman didn't show up this season so there wasn't enough music in it for that to be the problem.

Oh well in this episode the Abby-Gary affair of course explodes in Val's face. I love it how Gary looked all smug when Karen showed up and then dropped his face when Val joined her. It seems like Joe's warning in the episode before about how gamblers keeps raising the stakes because they want to loose is coming true, as now Gary is about to lose something which is valuable to him. His marraige to Val. I don't know whether to laugh or cry when he runs after the car at the end when Val furiously leaves the cul-de-sac just moments after Laura and Jason has moved back in with Richard.

The Laura, Jason and Richard plot is also handled well. Poor Richard really hit rock bottom in "Night". I wonder if Laura returns to him now because of something she told Val earlier on, she liked it when Richard needed her. He really needs her now so she moves back in.

Then I agree about the dialogue that came with the Abby, Gary and Val affair. Another favorite is from the episode China Dolls I think. When Val confronts Abby:

"Are you and my husband having an affair?"
"I am not saying that we are and I'm not saying that we don't. What I am saying however is that I can have him any time I want." (Maybe not word by word but you know which conversation I mean, the one that earned Abby a big bitch slap!)

I loved that one too and I think Gary and Val breaking up in a way made Val actually grow stronger. The same could be said for Gary too as Abby did push him to achieve more career wise than Val ever did even if Val were 100 % behind her man. She really tried to be the supportive wife.

Then as for Abby and Val. It's true that Val convinced Abby to stay in Knots Landing and the two of them were friendly to start with. So now when Abby moves in on Val's husband it's a double betrayal. Both from her husband and the woman who she used to think of as a friend.

But yeah it makes for great TV. Also I just realized that Val finding Gary and Abby together happened about a year or so before Sue Ellen had the misfortune of seeing JR in bed with Holly Harwood!

Over all I think the entire third season of Knots from the start of Sid's death all the way up to Val leaving Gary has been a very strong one.
I really wish it was available on DVD...

The season three cast.

 

[Chris2]

Agreed, Sid's death was so well handled. And Letting Go is a particularly good episode. Yeah, in reality, Letting Go should have happened later than it did. But audiences have a limited appetitive for watching grief. You couldn't have had Karen grieving for seasons.

Contrast it with Dallas, where Pam jumped into bed with the Pornstache about 30 min after Bobby died. I think Knots did a great job in comparison.

 

[Karin Schill]

Oh I agree with you. Pam moved on with the "Pornstache" way too soon after Bobby's death and it was in fact the biggest flaw of the entire dream season IMHO!

So yeah at least Knots gave Karen some more time to properly grieve for Sid.

Speaking of which tonight we watched the season four opening, "Brand New Day."

Seems like Gary both wants his cake and eat it. Getting in to that fight with Rusty about Val was so typically a Ewing thing to do. He was jealous as hell at the idea of someone else with his wife and yet he is fooling around with Abby.

Also I loved how Val moved back into the house and threw out all of his mother's furniture. Val is growing stronger for each season that is passing. Gone is that little country girl with the pony tails and a confident woman is taking her place. I love it.

Also Karen has now begun dating Mack. I can't help but smile at their first kiss. The expression on Karen's face. She's blown away. As much as I love Karen & Sid I am going to let that go now and enjoy Karen & Mack. Haha, I seem to recall an episode where they went fishing later on that was hilarious. I can't wait until my rewatch get to that episode!

Finally Abby is so greedy and is taking more shit from Gary than from anybody else since he's about to come into his inheritance soon. Also her sending Val's book to JR seems to indicate that a crossover episode will come up soon!

 

[tommie]

I. Want. To. Punch. Gary. In. The. Teeth.

What a loathsome character!

 

[Mrs Bobby James Ewing]

Karin Schill, I love Knots Landing and I love reading your thoughts on this awesome soap opera as you are rewatching it. I wish I could rewatch it as well. I love how writers handled Karen's grief for Sid after he died as well. It was well done and it was done in a realistic way unlike the way the writers handled Bobby's "deth on Dallas. I hate how fast Pam moved on with Mark after Bobby "died" on Dallas. I was proud of Val when she threw Gary and Miss Ellie's furniture out on the street after Gary cheated on her with Abby. He deserved it even though I rooted for Gary and Val get back together after they broke up despite Gary's constant cheating.