The Ultimate Movie Star

ClassyCo

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Who do think the title fits? Sure, you can have more than one actor or actress you'd connect with the label.

You can base your decision on talent, looks, personality, charisma, longevity. You can place the label on literally anyone, just tells us why you're doing so.

I'll be back to post some of mine.

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Snarky Oracle!

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Yeah, it's probably Taylor...

John Wayne had incredibly consistent box office for half-a-century. So has Tom Cruise, almost as long... But I'm really not sure that the title of "ultimate movie star" could be bestowed on a man. I mean, what did they need, those men? A horse and a closet.

The status of Ultimate Movie Star would seem to have to be placed upon a woman, if not a lady.

Bette Davis was granted the moniker "first lady of the American screen" because her films received consistent critical and commercial success in the late-'30s and early-'40s (at the very center of The Golden Age). Kate Hepburn was respected for her diligent "class and taste," but audiences found her a bit too aloof and lofty until she somehow enlarged in the 1960s and beyond, Kate's tortoise to Bette's hare, Hepburn surpassing Davis as No. 1 on AFI's list of the most important "classic era" female stars (that list appearing as the twenty-first century dawned). Joan Crawford has been called "the ultimate movie star," but that's said somewhat patronizingly, an acknowledgement of all the infrastructure and narcissistic accoutrement involved in Being Joan Crawford... Meryl Streep has had a half-century career in her own right, starring in an endless slew of repeat performances of Most Versatile Actress Ever and doing a good job at it.

Who was it who observed that a woman is made larger by acting stardom while a man is diminished?

So, yes, it's gotta be a woman.

For all the big, big female movie stars who came down the pike and may have lasted a long time -- and there are several -- it's hard to think of one who quite had what Elizabeth Taylor had... I mean, she could sell a barge-load of magazines by appearing on their covers even when her film career was in the dumper, and had been for quite a while. She was arguably the platinum standard for celebrity-stardom ever (and she even managed to leave behind a decent filmography). And she ruddered her Richard Burton romance, unstealthily but effectively, which remains entertainment's most celebrated and infamous.

She had the right attitude, she had the right look, the right luck, the right era(s) and she had the right level of perseverance...

And then there's this:

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I once said this about Elizabeth Taylor, and I guess I still would:

Not every role or every performance works, to be sure. And her fishwife elocution, something she was well aware of, didn't help. And while she's goodish in CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF, her delivery of the film's title sounds as scripted as it is (she needs to hesitate on an adjective or something, and she doesn't). She once said: "I don't like the way I look, I don't like the way I speak, I don't like the way I move, I don't like the way I act..."

But nobody does wistful, determined soliloquy heartbreak like Elizabeth Taylor.

Even Katharine Hepburn told her biographer that she felt Taylor was "more interested in being a movie star than an actress," and added, "but make no mistake -- Elizabeth Taylor is a brilliant actress." Joan Crawford admitted in a 1966 interview that she shouldn't have previously made some of the public assessments she had about how Taylor conducted her personal life, confessing that it was "none of my business" and conceding that she herself "wasn't Goldilocks," adding that Taylor had recently given some of the finest performances she'd ever seen... But then Kate may have felt generously towards an actress from whom she felt no threat, just as Hepburn praised Julia Roberts while dismissing the talents of Meryl Streep and Glenn Close. And Crawford, of course, would simply have been mesmerized by the fame and notoriety and crazed success and sheer melodrama of The Liz Taylor Train as it barreled out of control, swallowing up and spitting out everything in its path.

She was, in THE LAST TIME I SAW PARIS, the most beautiful 21-year-old I ever saw. She's great in GIANT, decent in SUDDENLY, LAST SUMMER, better than she thought as the hooker who accepts no money in BUTTERFIELD 8, better than I'd like to admit in CLEOPATRA, positively terrific doing Shakespeare with hubby in TAMING OF THE SHREW, and flawless as the obsessive neurotic in perhaps her most underrated film, NIGHT WATCH... And, as a child actress, luminous in several films... Although I'd always prefer to see the Bette Davis/James Mason version of VIRGINIA WOOLF that Edward Albee envisioned, one that would have been "deeper and less showy" than the Taylor/Burton film.

As a celebrity -- arguably the greatest star Hollywood ever produced, she knew how to do the right things, and when to do the wrong things.

At the very least, she was a clever, intelligent woman. And she instinctively knew exactly the right blend of good taste and bad taste that makes an icon -- vulnerable and brassy, regal yet accessible, polished but vulgar, generous and egoistic, an "erotic vagrant" yet un-promiscuous, preternaturally gorgeous and sometimes even downright haggish.

Some people loved her, and the people who hated her loved to hate her. (My mother used to rail on about Taylor, her "ticky-tacky prettiness" and, in comparing Taylor to her pal Natalie Wood, Mom angrily sniped that Wood "had no idea what class is -- I think Elizabeth Taylor knows what class is, but she just doesn't give a damn!")

At the very least, you couldn't really ignore Elizabeth Taylor, on-screen or off.

And no one else has ever quite struck the correct balance of all of that.

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ClassyCo

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I must admit that Elizabeth Taylor is a very good contender for "the ultimate movie star" title. She was beautiful, talented, and had a long-lasting popularity that survived changing eras in Hollywood and multiple scandals, and that was heightened by her colorful personal life, many marriages, her love of jewels, several life-threatening ailments, entrepreneurship, activism, and so forth. As an actress, she might not have always been the best, but she turned in many good, and sometimes very good, performances over her decades-long career. Even as the acting roles dried up, her public didn't seem to mind. She was still in demand as much as she had ever been. The public fascination with her never wavered.

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However, when I started this discussion, the one movie star I had in mind was Joan Crawford. She morphed from persona to persona, going from a flapper in the 1920s, a working girl in the 1930s, to a noirish independent woman in the 1940s. Later, she found a niche in tearjerkers in the 1950s and worked almost exclusively in grande dame guignol in the 1960s.

Crawford literally survived it all -- well, until April 1973 when unflattering shots of her were released by the press. Horrified, Crawford retreated into her hole and was never seen by the public she so thoroughly adored ever again.

According to Myrna Loy, Crawford was hopelessly devoted and diligent in her pursuit of stardom. Many actresses, like Gloria DeHaven and Diane Baker, have asserted of Crawford's thirst for glamour and how she'd never be caught, not even at the grocery store, looking frumpy. She knew the public made her a star, and she'd fight to maintain an image for them.

Still, Crawford's due diligence as "the ultimate movie star" can be read as facade. She lost herself in "Joan Crawford" and probably wasn't even herself anymore. One imagines how she spent her days when the movies stopped coming and there weren't anymore parties to attend.

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As for the men, I doubt John Wayne can be surpassed as a movie star. His image, his movies, his likeness is still everywhere. I can walk into any flea market or thrift store and see his movies or tin signs with his image.

Wayne, by most accounts, was not a very versatile actor, but he was one of the industry's largest box office draws for something like twenty-five years. He was strong and captivating on the screen, and considering he was predominantly known for Westerns, he caught the heart of America like no other.

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Joan Crawford admitted in a 1966 interview that she shouldn't have previously made some of the public assessments she had about how Taylor conducted her personal life, confessing that it was "none of my business" and conceding that she herself "wasn't Goldilocks,"

Oh mine, did she really say that? That quote is pure gold!! I wonder what Bette thought about it...

adding that Taylor had recently given some of the finest performances she'd ever seen... But then Kate may have felt generously towards an actress from whom she felt no threat, just as Hepburn praised Julia Roberts while dismissing the talents of Meryl Streep and Glenn Close.
As much as I adore Ms. Hepburn (both, actually), I also think that she used to (moderately) love or (discreetly) bash other people.
Obviously, she didn´t say that Roberts could be a great actress (independently of the fact that I care zero about JR´s (!) acting). A good listener could come to the conclusion that Hepburn was being condescending to a young actress she might have seen in, what, one movie or two?
Also, and most importantly, as much as an iconic actress (not star) she was, she could notice Meryl´s and Glenn´s bravura acting and technical perfection, and clearly think that both of them were her unavoidably successors (no matter how hard she criticized them). But who cares? Time has put the three of them in their place, though I still hope that Glenn gets, if not an Oscar, now that is so worthless, at least another Golden Globe or Emmy.
And no, I wouldn´t say neither of them deserve the title of ultimate movie star.

Some people loved her, and the people who hated her loved to hate her. (My mother used to rail on about Taylor, her "ticky-tacky prettiness" and, in comparing Taylor to her pal Natalie Wood, Mom angrily sniped that Wood "had no idea what class is -- I think Elizabeth Taylor knows what class is, but she just doesn't give a damn!")
Here I disagree with Mrs. Snarky (with all due respect). If there is someone of the golden era who I´d call the "ultimate movie star", that is Natalie Wood, even more than Liz. A tragic ending is something that goes with that title, like it or not, and Liz became, in her last 20 years, a person much more important as an activist than she was as an actress.

Natalie seemed to follow Liz´s path first: starting as a prodigy child, transitioning into adult actress successfully, going through painful ordeals including rape, then marrying the same guy twice (guess what Liz taught her?), being nominated to the Oscars, adapting her craft to every genre, even making appearances in famous plays and their TV versions...hell, she even slept with Mr. Sumner in the miniseries of "From Here to Eternity" (and winning over Deborah Kerr´s take on the same character).

And in the end, her still mysterious demise in the waters, her biggest fear (foreshadowed by many scenes throughout her career). And the sadness that took over her fans when she died (I still remember the press reports about it), not too long apart from Grace Kelly and Ingrid Bergman. I mean, can you live a life more worthy of a "ultimate movie star"?

There is a biographical miniseries of Natalie called "The Mystery of Natalie Wood" with Justine Waddell playing her, quite remarkably, that I´d like to recommend you all. If you watch it, please tell me if she is or the UMS.
PS: I just found it on the Tube (I hope it´s ok to post here the link). It´s a "docudrama" with real interviews and all, but I wouldn´t rely on those statements...):

 
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ClassyCo

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Oh mine, did she really say that? That quote is pure gold!! I wonder what Bette thought about it...


As much as I adore Ms. Hepburn (both, actually), I also think that she used to (moderately) love or (discreetly) bash other people.
Obviously, she didn´t say that Roberts could be a great actress (independently of the fact that I care zero about JR´s (!) acting). A good listener could come to the conclusion that Hepburn was being condescending to a young actress she might have seen in, what, one movie or two?
Also, and most importantly, as much as an iconic actress (not star) she was, she could notice Meryl´s and Glenn´s bravura acting and technical perfection, and clearly think that both of them were her unavoidably successors (no matter how hard she criticized them). But who cares? Time has put the three of them in their place, though I still hope that Glenn gets, if not an Oscar, now that is so worthless, at least another Golden Globe or Emmy.
And no, I wouldn´t say neither of them deserve the title of ultimate movie star.


Here I disagree with Mrs. Snarky (with all due respect). If there is someone of the golden era who I´d call the "ultimate movie star", that is Natalie Wood, even more than Liz. A tragic ending is something that goes with that title, like it or not, and Liz became, in her last 20 years, a person much more important as an activist than she was as an actress.

Natalie seemed to follow Liz´s path first: starting as a prodigy child, transitioning into adult actress successfully, going through painful ordeals including rape, then marrying the same guy twice (guess what Liz taught her?), being nominated to the Oscars, adapting her craft to every genre, even making appearances in famous plays and their TV versions...hell, she even slept with Mr. Sumner in the miniseries of "From Here to Eternity" (and winning over Deborah Kerr´s take on the same character).

And in the end, her still mysterious demise in the waters, her biggest fear (foreshadowed by many scenes throughout her career). And the sadness that took over her fans when she died (I still remember the press reports about it), not too long apart from Grace Kelly and Ingrid Bergman. I mean, can you live a life more worthy of a "ultimate movie star"?

There is a biographical miniseries of Natalie called "The Mystery of Natalie Wood" with Justine Waddell playing her, quite remarkably, that I´d like to recommend you all. If you watch it, please tell me if she is or the UMS.
PS: I just found it on the Tube (I hope it´s ok to post here the link). It´s a "docudrama" with real interviews and all, but I wouldn´t rely on those statements...):

You know, I can honestly see Natalie Wood as a serious contender for "the ultimate movie star" title. I almost posted her earlier myself. Right off, I couldn't tell you if I've seen Natalie Wood in anything, but I know about her life, career, and questionable death.

However, even if I'm in the minority, I've never found Natalie very beautiful. Elizabeth Taylor is far prettier.

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You know, I can honestly see Natalie Wood as a serious contender for "the ultimate movie star" title. I almost posted her earlier myself. Right off, I couldn't tell you if I've seen Natalie Wood in anything, but I know about her life, career, and questionable death.

However, even if I'm in the minority, I've never found Natalie very beautiful. Elizabeth Taylor is far prettier.

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Well, sometimes she became a "fashion victim" (to quote Abby), as this photo above proves. But the fact is that she was constantly changing and adapting herself to the new times and her new ages. Just like Liz, too. Natalie was more a "girl-next-door" type to me, but also much more relatable than the unreachable woman that Liz represented in her early years of career as an adult woman. I love both though. Check out "Rebel Without a Cause" if you wanna know what I mean better, that´s quintessential Natalie, playing one of the most difficult roles a young actress could play at the time.

Other films to watch with her: "Love with the Proper Stranger", a very adult drama very English-style, so to say. "Sex and the Single Girl", a screwball comedy where she proved what a great comedic timing she had. Of course, also "West Side Story", despite being so Un-PC nowadays (or because of that!) or her being dubbed; and two final "must-see films", "Splendor in the Grass" (another very adult film very underrated today), and finally "Gypsy". It took balls to play the two last roles I mentioned, and she got away with both. I just can´t see any other actress in her place. She doesn´t sing herself in the last one, but who cares? Russell was also dubbed, at least partially. Have great watching sessions!
 

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Calling Natalie Wood "the ultimate movie star" is like calling Morgan Brittany "queen of the '80s soaps."

You can, of course. But the topic's context gets all muddy and threadbare.
 

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Calling Natalie Wood "the ultimate movie star" is like calling Morgan Brittany "queen of the '80s soaps."

You can, of course. But the topic's context gets all muddy and threadbare.
I see your point, Snark, but I can also see the argument for Natalie Wood being considered the ultimate or quintessential movie star. She evolved with the times, from child to teenage to adult star.

Not that I 100% with calling her "the ultimate movie star".

"queen of the '80s soaps."
Joan, naturally.

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That´s precisely the point, Monsieur l´Snarkette. Behind every iconic movie star (Garbo, Marilyn, Clift, Marlene, Dean), there are lots of pathos, unhappiness, fake images contrasting with the stars´ inner turmoils, and many frustrations. Under my (modest) take on this subject, Natalie wins, because of her very tragic personal (and professional too) circumstances. If Liz, let´s say, had committed suicide after Burton´s death, then she would have won.

Anyway, this is not a contest, we are discussing cinema things from last century, and I guess that most of them made us worry, not only about their characters, but also about themselves. Compare this with what the current young generation "gives us". No comparison IMO, again.

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Monsieur l´Snarkette

So now, I'm "the ultimate movie star" -- and I haven't even made a film! No even a porno.

And not that I'm even monolingual, but do you need an apostrophe (instead of a vowel) when my name starts with a consonant?
 

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So now, I'm "the ultimate movie star" -- and I haven't even made a film! No even a porno.

And not that I'm even monolingual, but do you need an apostrophe (instead of a vowel) when my name starts with a consonant?
Pigs can´t spell (they only smell).
 

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I think John Wayne fits the bill for a male actor and would opt for Bette Davis as the female equivalent

Dont know who i would pick out of the Modern brigade of actors

Dont have the same allure x
 

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You know, there was something about Greta Garbo, the highly-heralded "Divine Garbo", the renowned "Swedish Sphinx", who was, at the height of her success, proclaimed "the greatest moneymaker ever put on the screen". Some classic film buffs, some movie historians generally point to the 1930s as the peak, or the classiest, era of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Garbo had a certain mystique about her, hence her branding as the "mysterious lady" in the press, with the line "I want to be alone!" from 1932's GRAND HOTEL hanging on her link a winter goat on a hook. I'd argue that Garbo is perhaps the finest example of a movie star. No other star -- whether male of female -- probably reached the height of fandom and paranoia as she did at her peak. "Garbo-mania" was all the rage in the early 1930s, and her resistance of publicity and shunning the spotlight only fueled interest in her.

While she might not have quite as strong of a hold on today's popular culture as others we've mentioned here, I'll toss Garbo into the discussion as a contender for The Ultimate Movie Star.

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It's interesting how nobody have brought up Vivien Leigh since she was after all "Scarlett O'Hara". Then again I think Vivien sort of sacrificed her movie career to work on the stage with hubby Laurence Olivier.

When I think of the Ultimate Movie Star though, I think the title belongs to Elizabeth Taylor. She was one of the first movie stars I became aware of as I was growing up even though that was in the late 1980s and early 1990s and she was barely even making movies anymore she was still written about in the women's magazines. Then there's also this book written about her called "How to be a moviestar" by William J Mann. He kind of argues that Elizabeth created the template that all the modern stars have followed.

Also there are songs written about her. I was going to post another song but stumbled on one I hadn't even heard before:


Taylor Swift is one of the biggest pop stars of today, with lots of kids being into her. If she sings about Elizabeth Taylor it must mean something, right?
 
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ClassyCo

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Vivien Leigh
True, Vivien Leigh played what is -- or what was once, at least -- the greatest female character to ever be written in Scarlett O'Hara. Her performance is quite extraordinary, and she was hands down the one that needed the job. Scarlett was literally tailor-made for her. I've seen so many tests (or clips thereof) that the endless parade of actresses made trying to land the part, but no one -- and I repeat no one -- played the part as well as Vivien. Funny, too, that an very British woman like Miss Leigh would play the most famous Southern belle of all-time. And then she goes and plays Blanche DuBois in A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE. A British woman born in British India won two Oscars for playing two Southern belles.

Even so, I still cannot find it in myself to see Vivien Leigh as a contender for The Ultimate Movie Star label. Yes, she played Scarlett and did so brilliantly, but her filmography, even following her GONE WITH THE WIND triumph, is quite sparse and contains a lot of misfires along the way. She struggled with the star system in the Golden Age, ran from it, and had bouts with mental illness that kept her from fulfilling a lot of her MGM contract. Leigh herself seemed to prefer the stage to the screen, and I just don't think she held the attention of the moviegoing public like others we've already mentioned have done or did do.

Granted, she was very talented and quite beautiful, but I don't see her as The Ultimate Movie Star material.

But, to each their own.

Good suggestion!

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MOI!​
 

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Seems like the primary trait of a movie star is fame and who, among the greats, is still famous to a wide swath of people? I doubt many people under 30 would recognize Crawford or even Taylor, but Marilyn Monroe's imagery continues to be iconic. People might not know her exactly, but they know her iconography, even if only by younger pop stars borrowing from her by way of Madonna. Marilyn is embedded in pop culture as much as Elvis or Mickey Mouse, which one really couldn't say about any of the others.
 
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Toni

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Seems like the primary trait of a movie star is fame and who, among the greats, is still famous to a wide swath of people? I doubt many people under 30 would recognize Crawford or even Taylor, but Marilyn Monroe's imagery continues to be iconic. People might not know her exactly, but they know her iconography, even if only by younger pop stars borrowing from her by way of Madonna. Marilyn is embedded in pop culture as much as Elvis or Mickey Mouse, which one really couldn't say about any of the others.

Ignorant people of any age wouldn´t recognize Marilyn or Mickey. They are denying the existence of anything older than one year. But ask any gay man or woman of any age who Judy, Crawford, Taylor, Bette, Montgomery Clift, James Dean or even Mae West were, and you might be surprised. If they don´t know them not at 20 y.o., give them a few years and they will know their work, or at least the main events of their lives. It´s popular culture that is the reverse of what happens today with celebrities, who are chewed and spit out in a couple of years, tops.

The true stars came to stay, and what they represented in and out of movies cemented the interest for public figures from entertainment industry. They were not Nobel Prizes but they didn´t need to be so, for their dedication to their craft and their public. I still consider the actresses who started in late 60s / early 70s as part of that "star system" (Barbra, Faye, Fonda, Liza, Sarandon, even those from early 80s: Lange, Pfeiffer, Meryl, Close).

So, many people under 30 won´t even recognize themselves in the mirror every day because their attention span is soooo short. Of course, the ones in this board are the exceptions (kissy, kissy!). Just my two cents.

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