Victoria not returning for the finale

Grangehill1

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I’ve just watched the Knots Landing last episode for the first time and thought it was actually perfect. I know we’ve discussed it before but why on earth did Victoria Principal not come back for Dallas’ last episode? I don’t believe the stuff about her wanting a guarantee that it was the finale episode. Even if that is the truth didn’t she feel like she owed the show and the fans some sort of closure? It wasn’t her fault the way she’d been written out but she could have resolved it. The show made her a star and an awful lot of money.

I’ve had a think and here’s a list of other stars who DID return to the roles that made them.

Joan Van Arc and Donna Mills returned for the Knots Landing finale

Kylie and Jason AND Guy Pearce returned for the Neighbours finale

Ron Howard returned for the Happy Days finale

George Clooney returned to ER for a castmates departure episode

Jason Priestly returned for the 90210 finale

Shelly Long returned for the Cheers finale

Steve Carrell came back for the final The Office

I’m sure there’s others but it isn’t it amazing the people who did come back to thank the show and for the fans?
 

Frank Underwood

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I know they brought back other actors for the final episode, but the whole thing was a waste since their characters only appeared in JR's dream.

To this day, Conundrum is the worst series finale of any show I've watched. Whatever her reasons, I believe VP was wise to steer clear of it.
 

Toni

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I know they brought back other actors for the final episode, but the whole thing was a waste since their characters only appeared in JR's dream.

To this day, Conundrum is the worst series finale of any show I've watched. Whatever her reasons, I believe VP was wise to steer clear of it.

All that was just another proof of Katzman´s chauvinistic supremacy. If she just wanted to know if that was gonna be the show´s "swan song", they should have told her it was just a fantasy episode, and Pam didn´t have to return if there was a Season 15. But they didn´t want to... Also, I´ve wondered if they actually asked her to be in the last "real" episode, the one previous to "Conundrum". That would be more understandable from Victoria´s POV. But who knows about the true facts...
 

KayLloyd

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I’ve just watched the Knots Landing last episode for the first time and thought it was actually perfect. I know we’ve discussed it before but why on earth did Victoria Principal not come back for Dallas’ last episode? I don’t believe the stuff about her wanting a guarantee that it was the finale episode. Even if that is the truth didn’t she feel like she owed the show and the fans some sort of closure? It wasn’t her fault the way she’d been written out but she could have resolved it. The show made her a star and an awful lot of money.

I’ve had a think and here’s a list of other stars who DID return to the roles that made them.

Joan Van Arc and Donna Mills returned for the Knots Landing finale

Kylie and Jason AND Guy Pearce returned for the Neighbours finale

Ron Howard returned for the Happy Days finale

George Clooney returned to ER for a castmates departure episode

Jason Priestly returned for the 90210 finale

Shelly Long returned for the Cheers finale

Steve Carrell came back for the final The Office

I’m sure there’s others but it isn’t it amazing the people who did come back to thank the show and for the fans?
I don't blame Victoria for wanting the guaranty of closure for Pam and Bobby in the final episode, that's what fans deserved. I blame Katzman for taking his anger at Victoria for leaving the show out on fans. As for those other actors returning for the final show of their series, it's apples and oranges because their producers cared about making fans happy.
 
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Laurie!

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It's my understanding that it wasn't any lack of love for her former castmates or the fans for her choice in not returning but mostly Lorimar. Apparently the powers that were when Victoria hadn't signed a new contract, were terrible to her. They even took away her parking space out of spite, prior to her final scenes. They tried to blacklist her but ultimately Victoria won and made them look like dumb clowns in my opinion.

A favour to Charlene is what brought her back for the 2004 Reunion and that gave her closure.
 

Mustard

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Valene's return was possible because of excellent writing. Even when she seemed to have died in the car crash down in Florida, it was never explicitly shown to be Val. Gary thought that it was Val from a bit of a distance as he chased after the car, so it was assumed to be her and it was played that way for something like 15-16 episodes after. Then Gary eventually gets something in the post with a message that sounded just like Val, and he sort of knew that Val was alive. When Val did show up, she was disguised and assumed that her former captors were watching her. This played up the realism to an over the top storyline, which Knots Landing excelled at, usually with plenty of actor input as well. Joan Van Ark and Ted Shackelford were a huge part of all this. Even in the 2005 reunion documentary, you can see the old emotional connection between them is still there. It's very deep rooted. A sort of "true love, even if we're apart for years and years", which perfectly plays into the Gary and Valene dynamic.

Victoria Principal, when she recorded that scene of Pam's car crashing into the oil tanker, she thought that Pam was being killed off. That would be it in her mind for Pam's story. The whole bandaged mummy figure was only done afterwards. Another thing is that Joan Van Ark wasn't actually there in the car down in Florida when Val apparently "died". Joan had left Knots Landing at the end of Season 13 (i.e. the penultimate season), although she directed some Season 14 episodes while Val was gone from the show, and then returned as Val for the 2-part finale.

With Joan Van Ark, you can see how David Jacobs approaches her, tells her that Knots Landing is ending, so can you come back as Valene, and we'll find a way to explain away the whole death thing in the most realistic way possible, and they were both on board with it, as was Ted Shackelford. As far as Victoria Principal was concerned, by contrast, Pam's story was over after driving into the oil tanker and the car exploding into flames. Who would survive that? And it was explicitly shown to be Pam, without any ambiguity about it. Also, Dallas had the actors less involved in storylines in comparison to Knots Landing, except for Larry Hagman after Who Shot J.R.?
 
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Grangehill1

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It's my understanding that it wasn't any lack of love for her former castmates or the fans for her choice in not returning but mostly Lorimar. Apparently the powers that were when Victoria hadn't signed a new contract, were terrible to her. They even took away her parking space out of spite, prior to her final scenes. They tried to blacklist her but ultimately Victoria won and made them look like dumb clowns in my opinion.

A favour to Charlene is what brought her back for the 2004 Reunion and that gave her closure.

did they do the same to Donna Mills or Joan Van Arc when they quit? Or when Patrick quit Dallas? Hmmm, not sure about this
 

Grangehill1

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Valene's return was possible because of excellent writing. Even when she seemed to have died in the car crash down in Florida, it was never explicitly shown to be Val. Gary thought that it was Val from a bit of a distance as he chased after the car, so it was assumed to be her and it was played that way for something like 15-16 episodes after. Then Gary eventually gets something in the post with a message that sounded just like Val, and he sort of knew that Val was alive. When Val did show up, she was disguised and assumed that her former captors were watching her. This played up the realism to an over the top storyline, which Knots Landing excelled at, usually with plenty of actor input as well. Joan Van Ark and Ted Shackelford were a huge part of all this. Even in the 2005 reunion documentary, you can see the old emotional connection between them is still there. It's very deep rooted. A sort of "true love, even if we're apart for years and years", which perfectly plays into the Gary and Valene dynamic.

Victoria Principal, when she recorded that scene of Pam's car crashing into the oil tanker, she thought that Pam was being killed off. That would be it in her mind for Pam's story. The whole bandaged mummy figure was only done afterwards. Another thing is that Joan Van Ark wasn't actually there in the car down in Florida when Val apparently "died". Joan had left Knots Landing at the end of Season 13 (i.e. the penultimate season), although she directed some Season 14 episodes while Val was gone from the show, and then returned as Val for the 2-part finale.

With Joan Van Ark, you can see how David Jacobs approaches her, tells her that Knots Landing is ending, so can you come back as Valene, and we'll find a way to explain away the whole death thing in the most realistic way possible, and they were both on board with it, as was Ted Shackelford. As far as Victoria Principal was concerned, by contrast, Pam's story was over after driving into the oil tanker and the car exploding into flames. Who would survive that? And it was explicitly shown to be Pam, without any ambiguity about it. Also, Dallas had the actors less involved in storylines in comparison to Knots Landing, except for Larry Hagman after Who Shot J.R.?
I’ve said this before but did Victoria honestly think she was being killed off? After what happened with Patrick’s ressurrection? I think the issue more is she didn’t ‘care’ what happened to her. Patrick wanted to die. Victoria didn’t care. She shot the scene and walked away and this line she keeps saying that she thought they killed her, I just don’t buy it. She knew the mess they got themselves into with Bobby. I think that’s the line she chooses to say to prevent her going back.

any smart producer could have come up with anything. Was it Pam in the helicopter being taken to the hospital after the crash? Did somebody rescue her and keep her captive at the scene?

My issue would be that if Victoria did agree to return for the finale would Katzman have still gone down the Wonderful Life idea for the last episode route? Or would he have thought we need to rethink it and make the ending more about Bobby and Pam and make it real? I suspect not
 

Toni

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I’ve said this before but did Victoria honestly think she was being killed off? After what happened with Patrick’s ressurrection? I think the issue more is she didn’t ‘care’ what happened to her. Patrick wanted to die. Victoria didn’t care. She shot the scene and walked away and this line she keeps saying that she thought they killed her, I just don’t buy it. She knew the mess they got themselves into with Bobby. I think that’s the line she chooses to say to prevent her going back.

any smart producer could have come up with anything. Was it Pam in the helicopter being taken to the hospital after the crash? Did somebody rescue her and keep her captive at the scene?

My issue would be that if Victoria did agree to return for the finale would Katzman have still gone down the Wonderful Life idea for the last episode route? Or would he have thought we need to rethink it and make the ending more about Bobby and Pam and make it real? I suspect not
IMH, Victoria got hypnotized to forget all about Dallas when she left. Smart lady, her brain was now full of formulas for the Principal Secret!
 

Rove

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The brief in "Why Victoria Principle turned down a Texas-sized payday on 'Dallas' is telling. Victoria states she gave them 2 years notice. This would have been during and up to "Swan Song" when Bobby flatlines. The producers really had dropped the ball with regards to strong story-telling when the final act in Dallas should have been focused on the characters of JR and Pam as he desperately schemed to get rid of her out of Ewing Oil. For some odd reason the writers couldn't bring themselves to rachet up that conflict. It felt to me this was the natural path Dallas was reaching....after the death of Bobby.
 

KayLloyd

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I’ve said this before but did Victoria honestly think she was being killed off? After what happened with Patrick’s ressurrection? I think the issue more is she didn’t ‘care’ what happened to her. Patrick wanted to die. Victoria didn’t care. She shot the scene and walked away and this line she keeps saying that she thought they killed her, I just don’t buy it. She knew the mess they got themselves into with Bobby. I think that’s the line she chooses to say to prevent her going back.

any smart producer could have come up with anything. Was it Pam in the helicopter being taken to the hospital after the crash? Did somebody rescue her and keep her captive at the scene?

My issue would be that if Victoria did agree to return for the finale would Katzman have still gone down the Wonderful Life idea for the last episode route? Or would he have thought we need to rethink it and make the ending more about Bobby and Pam and make it real? I suspect not
No one would have survived a crash like Pam's, so yes, Victoria and any other actress in her place would reasonably believe and expect that her character was being killed off. Katzman let his anger at Victoria cloud his professional judgement about the handling of her departure from the show and reasonable request for closure for Pam and Bobby to appear in the final episode. He let himself lose sight of the big picture of what was best for the show, and that was the ratings gold of having Victoria appear in the final episode. My sense is that if he had been thinking more clearly and agreed to Victoria's request, he probably would have still used the "It's A Wonderful Life" concept and just re-written Bobby's story with the final scene showing how happy Bobby and Pam and their children would have been together at Southfork without J.R. It would have been the perfect ending to Dallas with the first and final scenes being of Bobby and Pam.
 
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Mustard

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Victoria would have signed for one more year (1987-88), that's the irony, but they insisted on two more years. Season 11 DVD basically feels like proper Dallas gone very stale, whereas Season 12 DVD feels fresher because they are trying something different.
 

DallasFanForever

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VP was smart to stay away. I think they still would’ve gone with the ridiculous theme for the final episode and I just can’t see her being a part of that. It would’ve been nice to get some closure for Bobby and Pam as a couple had she agreed to it but my gut tells me they would’ve bungled it at this point along with the rest of the final episode.
 

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She might have done "Conundrum" if Pam had become president of the United States instead of Cliff.

Otherwise, why would Victoria come back to do that crap finale for this deeply-ruined show?

A favour to Charlene is what brought her back for the 2004 Reunion and that gave her closure.

And CBS agreed to run a Principal Secret ad during the body of the show.
 

Grangehill1

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Victoria would have signed for one more year (1987-88), that's the irony, but they insisted on two more years. Season 11 DVD basically feels like proper Dallas gone very stale, whereas Season 12 DVD feels fresher because they are trying something different.
Completely agree. Season 11 is just awful. 12 feels like a newer show

No one would have survived a crash like Pam's, so yes, Victoria and any other actress in her place would reasonably believe and expect that her character was being killed off. Katzman let his anger at Victoria cloud his professional judgement about the handling of her departure from the show and reasonable request for closure for Pam and Bobby to appear in the final episode. He let himself lose sight of the big picture of what was best for the show, and that was the ratings gold of having Victoria appear in the final episode. My sense is that if he had been thinking more clearly and agreed to Victoria's request, he probably would have still used the "It's A Wonderful Life" concept and just re-written Bobby's story with the final scene showing how happy Bobby and Pam and their children would have been together at Southfork without J.R. It would have been the perfect ending to Dallas with the first and final scenes being of Bobby and Pam.
Nobody would have survived being run over and dying infront of their family but yet Bobby did.

I disagree with you completely. We the audience knew (I was 13 at the time and even I knew!) that they wouldn’t kill Pam after what happened with Bobby. I genuinely believe Victoria shot the car crash scene and walked away not caring. And that’s the excuse she gave time and time again - Pam is dead. No the first rule of soap opera is nobody’s dead unless you see the body (and even that rule is thrown out the window with Bobby)

Back to my original post though. How can all those other actors return to a show that gave them the fame in the first place and yet Victoria didn’t
 

pete lashmar

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It was a job and Victoria saw it as such. She worked a grueling schedule for 12 years and saw the quality of the scripts getting lower and so gave her notice. When it was time she left and that is that. She agreed to return for the final episode on the promise that it WOULD be the final ever episode, but the producers couldn't commit to that and so she didn't return.

But her love for the show, it's cast and it's fans is still ongoing and she frequently posts memories from her years on the show.

Last month a "Getting Lost" documentary was released celebrating the 20th anniversary of Lost. Just about all the cast appeared in it to talk about their time on the show - but Matthew Fox wasn't interested.....it happens, these shows are jobs for actors and many treat them as such, they go in, film and then leave.
 

Grangehill1

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12 years? If only. It was 9 wasn’t it? And she wouldn’t have been in every day. So for the crew it was grueling but not so much the cast. Particularly when they split Bobby and Pam. She had her own bubble of other cast and storylines so no more southfork dinners which must have taken an age to shoot

It was a job and Victoria saw it as such. She worked a grueling schedule for 12 years and saw the quality of the scripts getting lower and so gave her notice. When it was time she left and that is that. She agreed to return for the final episode on the promise that it WOULD be the final ever episode, but the producers couldn't commit to that and so she didn't return.

But her love for the show, it's cast and it's fans is still ongoing and she frequently posts memories from her years on the show.

Last month a "Getting Lost" documentary was released celebrating the 20th anniversary of Lost. Just about all the cast appeared in it to talk about their time on the show - but Matthew Fox wasn't interested.....it happens, these shows are jobs for actors and many treat them as such, they go in, film and then leave.
Neighbours couldn’t guarantee that it would be the finale episode in 2022. They were still trying to get networks to pick it up even after it had gone. So Kylie and Jason and guy Pearce appeared thinking it pretty much was but there was always a chance it could go again. Which it did

Victoria should have appeared
 

Toni

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12 years? If only. It was 9 wasn’t it? And she wouldn’t have been in every day. So for the crew it was grueling but not so much the cast. Particularly when they split Bobby and Pam. She had her own bubble of other cast and storylines so no more southfork dinners which must have taken an age to shoot
Funny you mentioned the dinner scenes because I don't think we ever saw the Barneses in the middle of one. Before and after yes, but very few times. Very clever from the producers and writers.
 

Jimmy Todd

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Why was Victoria so adamant that it had to be the last show? If she was only going to be in one episode anyway, why would she care?
 
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