"You call this plain clothes…?" (Re)watching Cagney & Lacey

[bmasters9]

Jumping on the back of the comments you made about the pre-Season Two episodes being similar to a series that undergoes several pilots before they perfect it, it's probably best to treat the films in a similar way. They are a different animal from the series, and I view them as a series of pilots for a potential new series (which I suppose they were intended to be).

They're by no means the pinnacle of the entire run, but they are definitely worth watching after the series for the full C&L experience.

OT-- I felt likewise about the Final Rescues TV movies made for Emergency! in 1978 and 1979 and broadcast on NBC (each one a 2-hr. movie [97 min. roughly on DVD]); they were in San Francisco for two of them (the final two), and in Seattle for the third one (there were six of them made; the first two were in Los Angeles, and the fourth one was a clip show in remembrance of rescues that Johnny Gage and Roy DeSoto did over the course of the original run [Gage and DeSoto having been supposedly promoted to captains]). They were more or less what Johnny and Roy did during the course of the original 1972-77 NBC run of Emergency!, except that the Rampart people were only in the first two that were set in L.A. and L.A. County (none of the Station 51 people were in either of them); after that, Johnny and Roy were on their own, and learned about other cities' (Seattle and San Francisco) fire, rescue, paramedic and hospital operations.

And like you said about Cagney & Lacey, these Final Rescues films on Emergency! on NBC were not exactly the same stuff that many of us knew in the original 1972-77 run of that NBC medical/action series, but because they do have Johnny and Roy in them, and they do have fires and rescues and paramedic and hospital action, they are, IMO, worth seeing to get the full experience of Emergency! (I saw all of them, and they are, indeed, worth seeing on that basis).

 

[Seaviewer]

Before I continue my binge, I wondered what yall think of the tv movies? I read an interview with Gless that said they were successful and would've continued, but Les Moonves wasn't a fan of the show. Did they have the same quality as the tv show?

I think the quality is there but as Mel said they are different. Without spoiling too much the first two set up the new situation that they are working in with the others being more like extended episodes. There is a certain lack of finality due no doubt to the fact that they had expected to make more.

 

[bmasters9]

I think the quality is there but as Mel said they are different. Without spoiling too much the first two set up the new situation that they are working in with the others being more like extended episodes. There is a certain lack of finality due no doubt to the fact that they had expected to make more.

And why didn't they make any more beyond?

 

[Seaviewer]

Thre

And why didn't they make any more beyond?

There's a moment in one of the interviews on one of the discs where Tyne recalls that she asked Barney, "Is it because we're girls?", and he said it was.

 

[bmasters9]

Thre

There's a moment in one of the interviews on one of the discs where Tyne recalls that she asked Barney, "Is it because we're girls?", and he said it was.

Interesting reasoning.

 

[ChrisSumner]

And why didn't they make any more beyond?

Sharon Gless put it more specifically and said Les Moonves put a stop to the movies. He didn't like the show and it didn't fit his vision for the network. The movies did well in the ratings, but Les was a nightmare and if he didn't like a show, it wasn't going to survive. It also wouldn't have fit the more masculine vision he had for CBS.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

This morning I've discovered that an upcoming disc on demand of Joe Harnell's music includes his compositions for the Season Three C&L episode Victimless Crime. Act One can be previewed here and it sounds great.

Still, I'm undecided whether or not I'll get this. I'm not too bothered about the tracks outside of these and, with international shipping costs, it's a fairly hefty investment for three tracks on a CD-R which has a very limited lifespan.

Hopefully the individual tracks will be made available digitally. If not, I may consider taking the plunge. After all, it's a very rare treat for the score from a favourite TV series to be released this way.

 

[LMLDallas78]

This morning I've discovered that an upcoming disc on demand of Joe Harnell's music includes his compositions for the Season Three C&L episode Victimless Crime. Act One can be previewed here and it sounds great.

Still, I'm undecided whether or not I'll get this. I'm not too bothered about the tracks outside of these and, with international shipping costs, it's a fairly hefty investment for three tracks on a CD-R which has a very limited lifespan.

Hopefully the individual tracks will be made available digitally. If not, I may consider taking the plunge. After all, it's a very rare treat for the score from a favourite TV series to be released this way.

I've just discovered this thread! I was a massive Cagney and Lacey fan and have enjoyed repeats too. I've still got a recording of my favourite 2 part episode "who says it's fair" saved on my sky box. Amazing episodes that I still watch from time to time.

I also recently found an episode online I'd been searching a while for, can't recall the title but it's when they have to cook for an event. I remember the kitchen scene was hilarious. I've also been catching up with their interviews online.

Not sure I'm a TV addict or fanatic, I think I'm a TV freak!

I'm really looking forward to reading all of these posts.

Have you reached a decision yet regarding your above post?

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I also recently found an episode online I'd been searching a while for, can't recall the title but it's when they have to cook for an event. I remember the kitchen scene was hilarious.

Ah yes. That's 6.16 - To Sir With Love (the "Lucy and Ethel" episode):

TO SIR WITH LOVE

I was really looking forward to this episode having watched the legendary kitchen scene on YouTube some months ago. In fact watching that scene - and laughing out loud - quite possibly prompted me to start the rewatch. And it didn't disappoint this time round.

Rosenzweig calls the scene "a peek into what might have been had I been successful in my one time 'pitch' to have Cagney & Lacey be a comedy with drama instead of the other way round". The entire episode does indeed have the flavour of a dramedy, and it's none the worse for it. It's situational but keeps enough eye on character to not feel too contrived.

The kitchen scene alone makes this a top ten episode for me. Everyone involved knows the characters well enough to get every drop of humour out of the situation. Chris imitating Mary Beth right down to her voice ("You got chips") was hilarious, while Mary Beth voice breaking with emotion after Chris called her balloon decor idea for the party "tacky" was played perfectly. The scene plays (deliberately, I suppose) like it's lifted from I Love Lucy. I wouldn't have thought this would work, but it does. So well.

Have you reached a decision yet regarding your above post?

It's not released until next week, so I'm waiting to see if the tracks are made available digitally. Much of Joe Harnell's music is released on iTunes, which means it's not beyond the realm of possibility. Usually I'm physical media all the way, but I'd settle for a digital version in this case.

This is also the only C&L episode that Joe composed, which is a shame as he (and now his estate) have been really good at releasing his music from series like The Bionic Woman, The Incredible Hulk and Santa Barbara. If he'd done one or two more episodes we might have seen a dedicated C&L CD. And I'd have been all over it.

 

[Seaviewer]

Carl Lumbly seems to be having something of a career renaissance - at least in my observation, although a check of IMDb shows he's never really gone away.
Lately he's had a recurring role on Supergirl, and the other night I saw him on S.W.A.T. I'd forgotten that he was a regular on Alias.
He's been employing a sort of Caribbean accent with some consistency, so that I had begun wondering if it was real and the American one affected. According to IMDb he was born in Minneapolis to Jamaican immigrants, so I guess it could have gone either way.

 

[ClassyCo]

My stepbrother bought this for me for Christmas. It was a surprise indeed. I wasn't expecting it at all.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

My stepbrother bought this for me for Christmas. It was a surprise indeed. I wasn't expecting it at all.

Enjoy. Have you watched it before? If not you're in for a treat.

I really do believe it's the best of its kind, and one of the best series of all time (though I realise these things are usually difficult to define with so many different factors involved).

 

[Seaviewer]

It's nice to see it acknowledged that there are seven seasons, not six, with the Foster episodes either ignored or relegated to "extras" status.

 

[Monzo]

Let's hope the best for Tyne Daly!

Tyne Daly Drops Out of Broadway's 'Doubt' Days After Performances Begin Due to 'Unexpected Hospitalization'

Tyne Daly, 77, will no longer be starring in the upcoming Broadway adaptation of 'Doubt' after experiencing a health-related issue.

people.com

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Thre

There's a moment in one of the interviews on one of the discs where Tyne recalls that she asked Barney, "Is it because we're girls?", and he said it was.

It may not seem fair, but it might be a little bit like the rural purge.
The network was seeking a certain demographic, and the C &L demographics were not profitable enough, in the network's view.
I don't think it was a matter of two women, but more like the age of the women.
If they had been "Charlies Angels" age-wise, it might have been different.
I am not saying it is right. I am speculating on the Network's business model

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Swit is actually very good here. Each time I watch the Pilot it feels like I find something new to like. She has a really lovely, quite natural way and I thought her chemistry with Tyne Daly worked well too. Her ambitiousness was clear and I appreciated that even at this point they didn't stray from conflict between Chris and Mary Beth.

Sad to see that the original Chris Cagney has died, aged 87.

 

[Soaplover]

Sad to see that the original Chris Cagney has died, aged 87.

Had it not been a clause in Loretta Swit's contract that she was to do a tv movie, Cagney & Lacey would most likely have stayed in development limbo way longer it did. And it also appears that it was her idea that Cagney's father were still alive and played a big part in her persona and life when originally he was supposed to have been dead in the original write up on her character.

Had she been able to play the character in the tv series, I think it would have worked well... but then we would have been deprived Sharon Gless. We got the best of both worlds seeing both of their takes on the character.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Had it not been a clause in Loretta Swit's contract that she was to do a tv movie, Cagney & Lacey would most likely have stayed in development limbo way longer it did.

Then thank goodness for that clause.

Was it for similar reasons that Michele Lee was CBS executives' choice for Mary Beth? Things could certainly have looked even more different to the series we ended up getting.

And it also appears that it was her idea that Cagney's father were still alive and played a big part in her persona and life when originally he was supposed to have been dead in the original write up on her character.

That rings distant bells for me. Probably from Barney's book.

Had she been able to play the character in the tv series, I think it would have worked well... but then we would have been deprived Sharon Gless. We got the best of both worlds seeing both of their takes on the character.

We certainly did. Last time I watched I also enjoyed Meg Foster's stint as Cagney. Even though Sharon Gless feels definitive from the moment she appears I'm glad we got all three Chrises (or should that be Chrisses?).

 

[Favelado]

I was a kid in the 80s and sometimes I would see bits of Cagney and Lacey, although only the later seasons because I would have been sent to bed by the time it came on for the early shows. It was a giant hit in the UK - I think my mum (blonde and pretty) sometimes took inspiration from Sharon Gless' clothes and my grandma thought she was 'smashing' (or some such adjective) too.

I decided to watch it from the pilot to the finish recently; partly out of general nostalgia and curiosity but with some more specific nerdy reasons too.

Specfically:

• I thought it would be interesting to see New York City street scenes from 1981-1988, a time and place I am utterly fascinated by.
• I thought it would be interesting to see how fashion and the overall aesthetic of the world around us changed. Cagney and Lacey had so many episodes that you can see the 80s unfold in real time.
• The real-time element gives a taste of a social history of the period too.

There is a big problem with the first of those - because after all the wonderfully authentic shots of Chinatown and Manhattan in the early episodes, they moved the whole thing to LA. Regardless of cost, I still feel that was a bit unforgiveable. The show was so rooted in New York dialect, food, culture it loses something the moment they take it out of its environment. If they could have used Manhattan in later series for some of the scenes it really would have added to things. Sometimes in the pseudo-NY streets they choose to look like Manhattan you can see a stray palm tree in the background and the spell is broken.

Anyway, thanks to The Internet Archive I have now watched eveything from the pilot up to Season 5 Episode 5. It has felt quite a mad and eccentric quest to make myself watch all of it from start to finish, so imagine how thrilled I was to find @Mel O'Drama 's excellent episode reviews, which I now read after I have finished an episode. They are very well-written - congratulations.

The best thing about the show is Tyne Daly and i get the feeling most people agree with me about that. Some of her performances are brilliant in their nuance, range, delivery, emotion. I had no recollection that she was such a wonderful actor but she is a phenomenon. I liked Meg Foster in Season 1, more than Loretta Switt in the pilot, but when Season 2 kicks in Sharon Gless feels like she is the right hand for the right glove. However... I feel that while Gless is varying in tone in S2 and S3, about halfway through S4 she starts to deliver all of her lines at NINETY DECIBELS and spends a lot of the time punching things and overacting. This has largely continued into Season 5. Another poster here commented that she has become quite unlikeable much of the time by now.

Perhaps another criticism I have is that the show does feel like it has a bit of avocado syndrome about it. You know when you have an avocado in the kitchen and you have to wait days for it to ripen or its hard and raw, but if you miss the tiny one day 'just right' window if goes all black and you have to throw it in the bin? I am getting hints of that with C&L. In Season 2 it felt like the show still hadn't quite found its legs and was very patchy and a bit underwritten. Then in Season 3 it gets a bit riper but not quite ready to eat, then in Season 4 it's ripe for a few episodes and fully edible, before at the end of Season 4 they have added insane amounts of underscoring to the show and Gless is barking out the script like a Julius Ceaser speech and we have reached overipeness. Please tell me I'm not stuck with the underscoring all the way until the end of Season 7!

So, a few criticisms there, but don't get me wrong, it's been a very worthwhile venture so far and I will watch every last second of the series and the TV movies too. There is much to enjoy - especially the best bits of dialogue between Daly and Gless which are sometimes stupendous.

That's my twopenneth so far then.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Welcome, @Favelado

I decided to watch it from the pilot to the finish recently; partly out of general nostalgia and curiosity but with some more specific nerdy reasons too.

Ooh - specific nerdy reasons. You're definitely in the right place!

after all the wonderfully authentic shots of Chinatown and Manhattan in the early episodes, they moved the whole thing to LA. Regardless of cost, I still feel that was a bit unforgiveable.

Yikes. I'm not sure I noticed this too much. In other series I can find this very noticeable but I'm guessing the concessions to good production values elsewhere at least concealed this a little better than most.

imagine how thrilled I was to find @Mel O'Drama 's excellent episode reviews, which I now read after I have finished an episode. They are very well-written - congratulations.

Oh, thank you. As you'll see from the dates, it's the best part of a decade since I wrote them, so I'll throw in the caveat that some opinions may be different if I watched today... but then new perspectives is half the point of rewatches, isn't it?

I liked Meg Foster in Season 1, more than Loretta Switt in the pilot, but when Season 2 kicks in Sharon Gless feels like she is the right hand for the right glove.

That sums it up nicely.

However... I feel that while Gless is varying in tone in S2 and S3, about halfway through S4 she starts to deliver all of her lines at NINETY DECIBELS and spends a lot of the time punching things and overacting.

Interesting observation, I don't remember if I noticed a line being crossed at a specific point (you'll probably know better since you're fresh off reading them) but I'm sure you're right.

I do remember a lovely, funny little scene that leans into this trait nicely early in Season Four, where Cagney is marked down for her interpersonal skills on the basis that she's "brusque", and she angrily bellows that word, inadvertently proving it correct.

Perhaps another criticism I have is that the show does feel like it has a bit of avocado syndrome about it. You know when you have an avocado in the kitchen and you have to wait days for it to ripen or its hard and raw, but if you miss the tiny one day 'just right' window if goes all black and you have to throw it in the bin?

What a perfect analogy.

Please tell me I'm not stuck with the underscoring all the way until the end of Season 7!

Do you know, I can't even remember. I think I was still just so glad to see the back of Nelson Riddle after Season One.

I will watch every last second of the series and the TV movies too.

Great. I'd love to read more of your thoughts as you go along.