The disintegration of Richard and Maggie's marriage (sigh)

[Pina]

A couple of years ago, I re-discovered Falcon Crest after having watched it as a kid with my grand aunt. It has now become my comfort show by now, and I am currently on another rewatch and just discovered this board.

I am in the middle of s8 now (and almost done with the rewatch, as I never watch s9 beyond Maggie’s funeral). And every time it causes me almost physical pain to watch Richard’s and Maggie’s marriage disintegrate. I mean, at one level this is what happens all the time, partners being in love but not managing to work things out.

But then, they’ve already been through so much, always reassuring each other they’d do better next time. Like Richard promising Maggie to respect her wishes, and to not keep things from her. Why can’t he be honest with her and tell her about his plans with Glenbraddoch? I mean, it isn’t some secret business deal which she will never even notice, but one that is supposed to change the entire valley, and so she’s going to see it eventually?

And Maggie, telling her friend that she knows she should leave Richard, because he will not change. But she doesn’t, and loses her kids in the process (though if she had left him before, he’d probably tried to get custody, too).

Ugh, just had to blow off some steam; though I am interested in other people’s opinion. Should Richard have told Maggie about his plans? Didn’t he do it because he just is like he is and always has to have something secret up his sleeve? Or was he afraid that Maggie might side with Angela against him? (Which would have been so much more interesting than the stupid doppelganger plot).

Did he feel invincible after having come out winner in the fight against the Thirteen? (Which was another plot I hated; btw.).

 

[Angela Channing]

Hi @Pina, welcome to the forum and great to see your first post is about Falcon Crest.

I too was sorry to see Richard and Maggie's marriage break down but in some ways it seemed inevitable. Maggie was honest and down to earth and in many ways Richard was the complete opposite and so it was only a matter of time before this would create tensions in the marriage. However, the reason for the separation wasn't great because she knew what Richard was like when they got together and he did far worse things in the past which she seemed to be ok with.

 

[Pina]

Thank you, @Angela Channing
Oh yeah, it seemed inevitable, and I think Maggie should not have returned to Richard after his fake death and resurrection. She should have realised then that he will never change.

I just really like their slow burn getting together in s6 and it is so obvious how much Richard cares about her, which is why it is so disappointing in the end. I like how in s6 he does take his time and is there for Maggie, without playing foul. He could have played a few dirty tricks once Maggie and Chase were separated, but Richard didn't which perhaps was what made Maggie think he'd be different with her. But alas... in the end he can't escape his upbringing which essentially prevents him to realise that caring for others means being honest. But he's an egoist and a capitalist to the bone who will always put his own interest and his business interests first.

 

[Pina]

I realised I should have posted this thread under the main forum, not the writers room. Is there a possibility of moving this thread? Sorry, a complete newbie here.

 

[Angela Channing]

I realised I should have posted this thread under the main forum, not the writers room. Is there a possibility of moving this thread? Sorry, a complete newbie here.

No need to apologise, it's great to have you here. The thread has now been moved.

 

[C Rose]

In season 7 it was obvious Richard and Maggie were not a good fit. Maggie couldn’t handle his dangerous, risky lifestyle so she started drinking heavily. Meanwhile Richard rarely would drink. Richard also made her feel jealous with his friendship with Liz.

In the beginning of Season 8 their marriage was already on the rocks. Maggie no longer trusted Richard. She also resented Garth for knowing Richard’s secrets and wanted him gone. She believed Senator Ryder over Richard to her own detriment since she almost got herself kidnapped or killed. Richard had plans since he arrived on the show in season 2, episode 1 to take over the valley. He was waiting for the right time with Malcolm and Pilar. He was going to do what had to do to get it accomplished and finally defeat Angela. Richard didn’t even tell Maggie he was alive so there was no way he would tell her his plans.

 

[Richard Denault]

That Richard wanted to take over the valley? And what did Angela want?
In addition, she was always determined that the useless Lance be the heir to Falcon Crest instead of his nephew Chase
Richard and Maggie's romance began to unravel in season seven at the whim of the producers.
Jeff Freilich after firing Chase at the end of the sixth season became friends with him and thought that he would return in the eighth
At the end of the last episode of the seventh Jeff wrote the scene where Magie is with Kevin and Michael and talks about both of her parents. Thinking of Chase's return
In the final scene of the seventh, the man Angela sees, who had a beard, was supposed to be Chase. He was also about to fire David at the bottom of the seventh.
He didn't like the character of Richard?
Had David become very expensive?
Ed Limato was one of the most powerful agents in Hollywood and David was his client and friend from when he did Quentin until Limato died in 2010.
Richard making Vickie go to jail made no sense. This was the cause of the marriage having problems.
They had wonderful chemistry and were very much in love until the writers broke them up.

 

[Gioberti84]

Opposites do attract. Richard and Maggie were a fine example. He just did not know how good she was for him.

 

[Pina]

Oh wow I didn’t know about the intended return of chase, @Ana. This certainly explains the bad writing on Richard’s part during s8. Because even though I guess Richard would never change to become an entirely “good guy”, I never understood why he hasn’t undergone just a bit of character growth in s 8 after all the things he went through in s7 where we are made believe that he at least partly understands how much he has messed up his life and his marriage. The whole kidnapping of Angela-plot? Ridiculous, even for someone like Richard.

So yeah, the explanation re a possible return of Chase makes sense (though even if Chase would have returned, I wouldn’t want to see Maggie back with him.)

But boy, do I love their chemistry and I guess this is why the whole thing is bugging me so much. I’d love them to stay together, but I don’t really see how, because as @C Rose said, too many bad things were going on from the start of their relationship. With Richard, I don’t think he’d ever stop using blackmail, intrigues, etc. doing business, and even early on in s7 after she read Remick’s dossier, I had a hard time understanding how Maggie could separate evil Richard from the man she loves. Especially since she kept lamenting about Angela and her dirty tricks to Chase since the Giobertis had settled in Tuscany. And I also don’t understand how Maggie could have forgiven him having put Vicky in jail (I certainly couldn’t if it was my own kid), and everything else he did in s7. She shouldn’t have returned to him after he returned in s8.

Also, I read in an interview with Susan Sullivan that she decided to leave the show after she got the impression of having to play the same kind of scene over and over, and if she had stayed, they’d probably would have repeated the “Maggie-returns-to-Richard-only-to-leave-him-once-he-messes-up-again” pattern once more in s9. Which is sad. She should have left him and become her own person, being a successful commentator of life in the valley with the Tuscany Herald, reporting on Richard and Angela’s intrigues.



Tl:dr I am shipping Richard and Maggie madly, and their separation is making me sad, though it would probably be more unbelievable would they have stayed together.

 

[C Rose]

@Pina most of the Falcon Crest romances lasted one season and two at best. Maggie and Chase lasted 5 seasons with a lot of drama along the way including some with Richard. The underlying tension with Maggie and Richard after their kiss to end season 4 made seasons 5 and 6 more interesting.

By season 8 Maggie and Richard’s romance had run its course. Richard had more chemistry with Pilar and Sam that season vs Maggie. Maggie got all sanctimonious like Chase did and it got tiring as she was mentoring her much younger employee Tommy.

Maggie never stood a chance when she left Richard too. He was always pulling the strings. It was a really poor decision for her to run off with the children to Angela’s. Richard pretty much shut her newspaper down when Maggie’s romance with Tommy was revealed at the custody hearing.

 

[Richard Denault]

Oh wow I didn’t know about the intended return of chase, @Ana. This certainly explains the bad writing on Richard’s part during s8. Because even though I guess Richard would never change to become an entirely “good guy”, I never understood why he hasn’t undergone just a bit of character growth in s 8 after all the things he went through in s7 where we are made believe that he at least partly understands how much he has messed up his life and his marriage. The whole kidnapping of Angela-plot? Ridiculous, even for someone like Richard.

So yeah, the explanation re a possible return of Chase makes sense (though even if Chase would have returned, I wouldn’t want to see Maggie back with him.)

But boy, do I love their chemistry and I guess this is why the whole thing is bugging me so much. I’d love them to stay together, but I don’t really see how, because as @C Rose said, too many bad things were going on from the start of their relationship. With Richard, I don’t think he’d ever stop using blackmail, intrigues, etc. doing business, and even early on in s7 after she read Remick’s dossier, I had a hard time understanding how Maggie could separate evil Richard from the man she loves. Especially since she kept lamenting about Angela and her dirty tricks to Chase since the Giobertis had settled in Tuscany. And I also don’t understand how Maggie could have forgiven him having put Vicky in jail (I certainly couldn’t if it was my own kid), and everything else he did in s7. She shouldn’t have returned to him after he returned in s8.

Also, I read in an interview with Susan Sullivan that she decided to leave the show after she got the impression of having to play the same kind of scene over and over, and if she had stayed, they’d probably would have repeated the “Maggie-returns-to-Richard-only-to-leave-him-once-he-messes-up-again” pattern once more in s9. Which is sad. She should have left him and become her own person, being a successful commentator of life in the valley with the Tuscany Herald, reporting on Richard and Angela’s intrigues.



Tl:dr I am shipping Richard and Maggie madly, and their separation is making me sad, though it would probably be more unbelievable would they have stayed together.

Susan Sullivan did not leave the program, she was fired in a bad way, she found out reading the script
In Tell it one of the wonderful newsletters of the German http://www.falconcrest.org/english club tells
Hernry Stern was home, talking to Susan Sullivan one day about going to dinner or something, and she said ‘Oh, the messengers just delivered the script.’ And so she starts skimming through it while Henry is on the phone with her, and she says ‘Oh my God, they’re killing me! My ring gets caught in the swimming pool.’ ” This, again, confirmed what I had heard from other sources close to the set: The official version about Susan’s “leaving” was merely played to the press — Susan did not want to leave the series, but was forced to. “And she discovered it while she was on the phone with Henry! We were then long off the show doing something else,”
Chao-Li told us she was not happy when she found out her character, Maggie, was killed off. This confirmed what we had heard from various sources in the last few years: It was not the actress who decided to be written off, but the new producers of season 9 forced her to leave. Lorimar’s official 1989 fall press release only pretended it was Susan’s decision to quit — a version all the cast and crew was forced to tell the media in those days for publicity rea- sons. Another source — unnamed, but very close to the set — also mentioned Susan was furious, indeed. She is said to have had a screaming match with co- executive producer Joel Surnow when she found out the script of the season première killed her character off.

 

[Richard Denault]

Richard an evil?
If I educate him a war criminal
He was aware that his work was dirty and when he inherited his father's money. He abandoned her with all the power and wealth they represented.
He also did not want to know anything about the treasure of the Nazis, the legacy of my mother death and destruction
Richard had reason to be this way but Angela
Let's see what Richard thought of his character
Besides, I don't see it as bad. He is a man like you and me, admittedly a little complicated, with a particular morality and not always in accordance with generally accepted standards.
in society, but he is not the type of man to question the moral value of his actions and his conduct. He's a go-getter.
I liked Richard, ”he continues after a brief moment of silence. "I never believed he was the man the public would want to hate, like J.R. Ewing in 'Dallas.' There was more to him than this villain
caricature that we would have liked it to be. And if the public felt it, it's because I've succeeded in qualifying my character and letting a little of myself pass through him.

 

[Richard Denault]

According to The German Club Secret File http://www.falconcrest.org/english in season eight
Maggie to be "chased" by Chase - or someone Maggie had a hard time making her believe that Chase was still alive.
“Maggie receives a letter, anonymously, informing her that Chase is still alive, destitute, suffering from amnesia and in need of help. As [more] letters continue to arrive, with evidence becoming more and more convincing, Maggie begins to believe that it might be true, and finally begins to search for Chase.
When Richard's own investigation fails to find any real proof that Chase survived the accident, Maggie refuses to take her word for it. The truth is that she doesn't trust him. She knows that he is fully capable of lying to get what he wants, and she knows that he wants her. Richard, for her part, is furious that Maggie doubts him and is jealous that she still wants Chase back in her life. 'What's wrong?' she asks sarcastically, 'isn't a resurrected husband good enough for you?'
But Maggie can't stop searching for her. She no longer loves Chase, she assures Richard; but he is the father of her children, and if he is alive, at least they deserve to know; And, if Chase needs help, he can't turn his back on him."
For a later point in the season, to reveal that Chase is dead, but someone deliberately tried to deceive, maybe even torture Maggie for whatever reason. At some point, Maggie "begins to suspect that Angela might have been behind the campaign to convince her that she was still alive".
Potential for relationship problems between Richard and Maggie as a result of Maggie's search for Chase
“Maggie's mistrust of him, her concern, her obsession with finding Chase alienates Richard. He feels left out of Maggie's heart, frozen outside of her bed; and for the first time since his marriage to Maggie he is attracted to other women”.
Don't you think this story would have worked much better?
Richard -David and Maggie-Susan were a fantastic couple This wonderful photo from 2015 could have been of Maggie Richard
attachments

 

[Richard Denault]

Michael was the son of Richard and Cassandra. He had no right to take it.

 

[Pina]

@Pina most of the Falcon Crest romances lasted one season and two at best. Maggie and Chase lasted 5 seasons with a lot of drama along the way including some with Richard. The underlying tension with Maggie and Richard after their kiss to end season 4 made seasons 5 and 6 more interesting.

By season 8 Maggie and Richard’s romance had run its course. Richard had more chemistry with Pilar and Sam that season vs Maggie. Maggie got all sanctimonious like Chase did and it got tiring as she was mentoring her much younger employee Tommy.

Maggie never stood a chance when she left Richard too. He was always pulling the strings. It was a really poor decision for her to run off with the children to Angela’s. Richard pretty much shut her newspaper down when Maggie’s romance with Tommy was revealed at the custody hearing.

Oh, absolutely. There's no happy ever after in soap land.

 

[Pina]

Susan Sullivan did not leave the program, she was fired in a bad way, she found out reading the script
In Tell it one of the wonderful newsletters of the German http://www.falconcrest.org/english club tells
Hernry Stern was home, talking to Susan Sullivan one day about going to dinner or something, and she said ‘Oh, the messengers just delivered the script.’ And so she starts skimming through it while Henry is on the phone with her, and she says ‘Oh my God, they’re killing me! My ring gets caught in the swimming pool.’ ” This, again, confirmed what I had heard from other sources close to the set: The official version about Susan’s “leaving” was merely played to the press — Susan did not want to leave the series, but was forced to. “And she discovered it while she was on the phone with Henry! We were then long off the show doing something else,”
Chao-Li told us she was not happy when she found out her character, Maggie, was killed off. This confirmed what we had heard from various sources in the last few years: It was not the actress who decided to be written off, but the new producers of season 9 forced her to leave. Lorimar’s official 1989 fall press release only pretended it was Susan’s decision to quit — a version all the cast and crew was forced to tell the media in those days for publicity rea- sons. Another source — unnamed, but very close to the set — also mentioned Susan was furious, indeed. She is said to have had a screaming match with co- executive producer Joel Surnow when she found out the script of the season première killed her character off.

This is a bad way to get rid of her. But, sadly, I still feel the writers (and producers) sort of didn't really know what to do with Maggie - given Richard was the man he was he wouldn't have let her go with the children, so instead of having another "Maggie leaves Richard and he wants her back" season, they probably decided to kill her off. It's sad, because Susan Sullivan is such a good actress, that Maggie never really became a character of her own, but always needed to be someone's other half. It would be nice for her to have some kind of an emancipation story. But along came the pool...

 

[Pina]

Richard an evil?
If I educate him a war criminal
He was aware that his work was dirty and when he inherited his father's money. He abandoned her with all the power and wealth they represented.
He also did not want to know anything about the treasure of the Nazis, the legacy of my mother death and destruction
Richard had reason to be this way but Angela
Let's see what Richard thought of his character
Besides, I don't see it as bad. He is a man like you and me, admittedly a little complicated, with a particular morality and not always in accordance with generally accepted standards.
in society, but he is not the type of man to question the moral value of his actions and his conduct. He's a go-getter.
I liked Richard, ”he continues after a brief moment of silence. "I never believed he was the man the public would want to hate, like J.R. Ewing in 'Dallas.' There was more to him than this villain
caricature that we would have liked it to be. And if the public felt it, it's because I've succeeded in qualifying my character and letting a little of myself pass through him.

"Evil" was maybe the wrong term, but I'd argue he isn't your average guy, and not just someone like me and you. I like that he wasn't your caricature soap villain, and that he had this aura of vulnerability, and that we also see him as a good person at times. And I am pretty certain another actor wouldn't have done as great a job as David Selby has done. But overall, he isn't a "good" and moral person because he is driven by his complicated past and does not shy away from threat, blackmail, putting others into prison, and killing people (which was implied when he sent the money to the government Remicks's troops were fighting - Richard wouldn't kill anyone, or order someone's killing, but in this particular case, he knew sending money would lead to more people being killed).

What I don't like about s8 Richard is how he treats Angela, and the way he discards Sam towards the end. He's never had any problems to get rid of people he does no longer need (thinking of Pamela, for instance), but the entire Angela story makes him evil in my eyes and it is just one step too much for me. From his POV he didn't have another option, yet, I believe after having come back from the Thirteen story, he could at least have developed a little insight into where certain boundaries are. Again, I know it's soap land where anything goes, and with shows it's always an issue with showrunners and writers coming and going as it messes with character development and continuity.

And at this point he was the only villain left, so he had to do villainous stuff.

 

[C Rose]

This is a bad way to get rid of her. But, sadly, I still feel the writers (and producers) sort of didn't really know what to do with Maggie - given Richard was the man he was he wouldn't have let her go with the children, so instead of having another "Maggie leaves Richard and he wants her back" season, they probably decided to kill her off. It's sad, because Susan Sullivan is such a good actress, that Maggie never really became a character of her own, but always needed to be someone's other half. It would be nice for her to have some kind of an emancipation story. But along came the pool...

Great insights! Maggie said to Richard after he asked to marry to her that she never lived on her own. She went from her father’s house to Chase’s to his. So she did have a few episodes to think about being independent. Richard was also reluctant to marry her when he learned she would lose her land according to the terms of Chase’s will. Maggie decided she wanted to be with Richard so she had to marry him. Since Falcon Crest was a Catholic oriented show the characters got married, living together was frowned upon. Maggie was no match for Angela, it’s best that she folded and got married again. Angela was no longer able to interfere in Maggie’s life once she married Richard.

 

[C Rose]

"Evil" was maybe the wrong term, but I'd argue he isn't your average guy, and not just someone like me and you. I like that he wasn't your caricature soap villain, and that he had this aura of vulnerability, and that we also see him as a good person at times. And I am pretty certain another actor wouldn't have done as great a job as David Selby has done. But overall, he isn't a "good" and moral person because he is driven by his complicated past and does not shy away from threat, blackmail, putting others into prison, and killing people (which was implied when he sent the money to the government Remicks's troops were fighting - Richard wouldn't kill anyone, or order someone's killing, but in this particular case, he knew sending money would lead to more people being killed).

What I don't like about s8 Richard is how he treats Angela, and the way he discards Sam towards the end. He's never had any problems to get rid of people he does no longer need (thinking of Pamela, for instance), but the entire Angela story makes him evil in my eyes and it is just one step too much for me. From his POV he didn't have another option, yet, I believe after having come back from the Thirteen story, he could at least have developed a little insight into where certain boundaries are. Again, I know it's soap land where anything goes, and with shows it's always an issue with showrunners and writers coming and going as it messes with character development and continuity.

And at this point he was the only villain left, so he had to do villainous stuff.

Richard was totally evil and devilish in a delicious way. Agreed - I don’t think any other actor could have pulled off this character as well as David Shelby. He had a lot of practice playing Quentin Collins on Dark Shadows. He had Michael’s kidnappers killed in season 6, rightfully as a warning so it wouldn’t happen again. It was implied by Chase’s friend in season 4 that Richard had people killed when he worked for the Cartel.

At the end of season 8 Richard finally gets what’s coming to him for all his evil deeds - a prison term. He was fortunate he didn’t end up dead with all attempts on his life over the years. In season 9, at least Richard softens a bit and is no longer the main villain. He still relies on his criminal wits which is a lot of fun to watch.

 

[Pina]

Richard was totally evil and devilish in a delicious way. Agreed - I don’t think any other actor could have pulled off this character as well as David Shelby. He had a lot of practice playing Quentin Collins on Dark Shadows. He had Michael’s kidnappers killed in season 6, rightfully as a warning so it wouldn’t happen again. It was implied by Chase’s friend in season 4 that Richard had people killed when he worked for the Cartel.

At the end of season 8 Richard finally gets what’s coming to him for all his evil deeds - a prison term. He was fortunate he didn’t end up dead with all attempts on his life over the years. In season 9, at least Richard softens a bit and is no longer the main villain. He still relies on his criminal wits which is a lot of fun to watch.

I haven't watched s9 so far, never dared to because I hate the Michael Sharpe character so much. Maybe I should give it a try for the Richard scenes then...