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Dallas the TV series
Knots Landing
Gary & Valene Appreciation Thread
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<blockquote data-quote="Mustard" data-source="post: 150509" data-attributes="member: 46"><p>They'd tease the reconciliation possibility, and then it was gone again. I think Season 5 DVD would have been too soon, but it could have happened after Gary and Abby's divorce happening around the same time that Ben disappeared, or after Jill's death, but it wasn't until Danny was seen as a complete psycho by Val that she and Gary got back together. Even after Danny's death, they teased that the reunion might be shortlived with Val's brain virus.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And wasn't there that scene with a toy house, when Jill was asking Betsy what her mother and Gary did? And yeah, they really teased a Ben return at that time, even using his voice too. And as I've said before, the feeling when Ben left near the end of Season 8 was that he would definitely be back in the future, but he never did come back.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's a worst nightmare. Not only is somebody effectively killing you, but they are going to make it look like a suicide so that nobody else will know the truth that you were murdered. Danny tried the same with Gary later, which also backfired, although Danny was already dead once Gary came back to his proper state of mind, whereas Val had to contend with Jill for a while. Funnily enough, Jill became quite scared of Val towards the end of her life once Val had ditched her fear and seen Jill for what she really is, so the dynamic between the two of them had completely changed. If Val is vulnerable, she won't stay that way for long. She adapts, gets tougher and fights back. This is a woman who stood up to J.R. as a teenager even when wounded, don't forget.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Everything about him. His history as Tony Fenice and him being a fugitive from physical abuse, enough to change his whole identity and move elsewhere. He can then forge new relationships and come across as a nice guy to a lot of people, although Mack saw through him early. There's also this thing of easing his own conscience through something like his relationship with Lilimae. It's like "I'm kind to her. She likes me and we're almost like mother and son. I'm not that bad, really. If she ever sees the real me, I'll deal with it then, but I hope our relationship stays like it is". And then his girlfriend Ciji, a woman very open, easy going and honest with a knack of annoying a lot of people. She wasn't ruthless enough when she saw the real Chip and paid with her life when he felt threatened by her stubbornness.</p><p></p><p>Compare Ciji's relationship with Chip to Cathy's relationship with Joshua. Cathy was more fortunate because she was a more manipulative character than Ciji and could save herself before it was too late.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>He meant it when he did it. Sociopaths can then switch off the killer and become a normal person. Look at his relationship with Diana too. Diana was absolutely terrified of him for a while after he kidnapped her, but before long she had fallen for him strongly. A classic case of Stockholm syndrome, which is quite common in kidnappings, especially with young impressionable victims.</p><p></p><p>I think Chip was the best villain in Knots Landing, personally. So multi-layered.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A lot of it was already there when Joshua arrived in Knots Landing. I think he was looking for something different in his life, something to stop the downward spiral.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Exactly. He couldn't cope with it at all, and all the ugliness in his mind came out.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. Joshua might have had a chance not to completely ruin himself if Val had been in a better place at the time. At another time, she could have got through to her brother, but her mind was largely elsewhere as it was with the stolen babies storyline.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>With Joshua and Lilimae, he's her son, but it was like they were both hoping that their relationship and circumstances were somewhat different. With Chip and Lilimae, while no relation, the mother and son like relationship that they had was loved by both of them, although Chip knew it was a lie. Chip and Lilimae were happier. Joshua was too obviously damaged. really. And of course, even when Lilimae knew the truth about Chip, she still felt strong emotion, sadness, anger and regret that the Chip she liked was a lie. With Joshua, it was devastating for her but I reckon a part of her knew that he was too damaged.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As he said, it tasted bad. Alcoholism is largely in the mind. So with Gary, he didn't lapse, a horrible villain forced alcohol down his throat. When he sobers up and is still alive, there's no turmoil like there would be if he had fallen off the wagon through his own choice.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Where I live, 18 is fine to decide yourself to get married. It might be wrong for Olivia to marry Harold, and you can tell her that, but I think Abby went over the top. I'd actually challenge Olivia to prove me wrong if she didn't listen. And if she messes up, I can tell her that I explained it all along, and ask her to learn lessons for the future. If she proves me wrong, then I learn a lesson.</p><p></p><p>In Britain, where I live, there are different laws in different parts. In England and Wales, you can get married at 16 and 17, but only if you have permission from two parents and/or legal guardians, and you have to be 18 to get married without parental permission in England and Wales. In Scotland, however, there's a different law, where you can get married at 16 without parental permission, so we often have cases in Britain of 16 and 17 year olds from England and Wales eloping to Scotland in order to get married without parental permission.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mustard, post: 150509, member: 46"] They'd tease the reconciliation possibility, and then it was gone again. I think Season 5 DVD would have been too soon, but it could have happened after Gary and Abby's divorce happening around the same time that Ben disappeared, or after Jill's death, but it wasn't until Danny was seen as a complete psycho by Val that she and Gary got back together. Even after Danny's death, they teased that the reunion might be shortlived with Val's brain virus. And wasn't there that scene with a toy house, when Jill was asking Betsy what her mother and Gary did? And yeah, they really teased a Ben return at that time, even using his voice too. And as I've said before, the feeling when Ben left near the end of Season 8 was that he would definitely be back in the future, but he never did come back. It's a worst nightmare. Not only is somebody effectively killing you, but they are going to make it look like a suicide so that nobody else will know the truth that you were murdered. Danny tried the same with Gary later, which also backfired, although Danny was already dead once Gary came back to his proper state of mind, whereas Val had to contend with Jill for a while. Funnily enough, Jill became quite scared of Val towards the end of her life once Val had ditched her fear and seen Jill for what she really is, so the dynamic between the two of them had completely changed. If Val is vulnerable, she won't stay that way for long. She adapts, gets tougher and fights back. This is a woman who stood up to J.R. as a teenager even when wounded, don't forget. Everything about him. His history as Tony Fenice and him being a fugitive from physical abuse, enough to change his whole identity and move elsewhere. He can then forge new relationships and come across as a nice guy to a lot of people, although Mack saw through him early. There's also this thing of easing his own conscience through something like his relationship with Lilimae. It's like "I'm kind to her. She likes me and we're almost like mother and son. I'm not that bad, really. If she ever sees the real me, I'll deal with it then, but I hope our relationship stays like it is". And then his girlfriend Ciji, a woman very open, easy going and honest with a knack of annoying a lot of people. She wasn't ruthless enough when she saw the real Chip and paid with her life when he felt threatened by her stubbornness. Compare Ciji's relationship with Chip to Cathy's relationship with Joshua. Cathy was more fortunate because she was a more manipulative character than Ciji and could save herself before it was too late. He meant it when he did it. Sociopaths can then switch off the killer and become a normal person. Look at his relationship with Diana too. Diana was absolutely terrified of him for a while after he kidnapped her, but before long she had fallen for him strongly. A classic case of Stockholm syndrome, which is quite common in kidnappings, especially with young impressionable victims. I think Chip was the best villain in Knots Landing, personally. So multi-layered. A lot of it was already there when Joshua arrived in Knots Landing. I think he was looking for something different in his life, something to stop the downward spiral. Exactly. He couldn't cope with it at all, and all the ugliness in his mind came out. Yes. Joshua might have had a chance not to completely ruin himself if Val had been in a better place at the time. At another time, she could have got through to her brother, but her mind was largely elsewhere as it was with the stolen babies storyline. With Joshua and Lilimae, he's her son, but it was like they were both hoping that their relationship and circumstances were somewhat different. With Chip and Lilimae, while no relation, the mother and son like relationship that they had was loved by both of them, although Chip knew it was a lie. Chip and Lilimae were happier. Joshua was too obviously damaged. really. And of course, even when Lilimae knew the truth about Chip, she still felt strong emotion, sadness, anger and regret that the Chip she liked was a lie. With Joshua, it was devastating for her but I reckon a part of her knew that he was too damaged. As he said, it tasted bad. Alcoholism is largely in the mind. So with Gary, he didn't lapse, a horrible villain forced alcohol down his throat. When he sobers up and is still alive, there's no turmoil like there would be if he had fallen off the wagon through his own choice. Where I live, 18 is fine to decide yourself to get married. It might be wrong for Olivia to marry Harold, and you can tell her that, but I think Abby went over the top. I'd actually challenge Olivia to prove me wrong if she didn't listen. And if she messes up, I can tell her that I explained it all along, and ask her to learn lessons for the future. If she proves me wrong, then I learn a lesson. In Britain, where I live, there are different laws in different parts. In England and Wales, you can get married at 16 and 17, but only if you have permission from two parents and/or legal guardians, and you have to be 18 to get married without parental permission in England and Wales. In Scotland, however, there's a different law, where you can get married at 16 without parental permission, so we often have cases in Britain of 16 and 17 year olds from England and Wales eloping to Scotland in order to get married without parental permission. [/QUOTE]
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Gary & Valene Appreciation Thread
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