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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Frank Underwood" data-source="post: 47430" data-attributes="member: 35">You're right about the GOP, but that's all the more reason why we need a party to counter their positions.  I believe that voters want a president who will at least fight for the things they believe in.  If you aim high like Bernie did, it at least opens the door for negotiation.  Offer little to no change, and you'll get exactly that.  Unfortunately, Republicans are much better at pushing through their agenda when they're in control.Of course, more progressives in Congress would make the job of a progressive President that much easier.  Sanders proved there is enthusiasm for progressives among young voters, so that gives me hope.Despite governing as a moderate, Obama campaigned as a progressive.  Hillary, on the other hand, campaigned as a status quo moderate.  Who do you think they're going to turn out for?Were they supposed to believe that someone who previously ridiculed Bernie over free tuition and health care was now going to support those policies?  Rejecting neoliberalism does not equate to preferring Trump.I've touted those successes in other threads, but they're all things that progressives would have pushed for as well.Progressives support the good positions of the moderates, without the baggage of war, job killing trade deals, Wall Street backers, donors like big pharma calling the shots, etc.Democrats seem more interested in trying to curry favor with Republicans than Republicans are with them.  Of course, even though the ACA had previously been supported by Republicans, they hated it once the Democrats passed it.  That's why it does the Democrats no favors to seek bipartisanship.  Democrats could have banned gay marriage, and Republicans would have been against it.This is typical of moderate Democrats.  Obama promises the public option, says he will end the wars, and condemns the NSA illegally spying on Americans.  Once in office, he drops the public option, doesn't end Bush's wars, starts wars of his own, and expands the NSA's surveillance overreach.  Instead of being mad at the guy who did the opposite of what he promised, they direct their anger at the voters who are upset at being conned.A tirade based on facts and not conjecture, but who cares about that.  You accused me of cutting my own throat, so I explained why I don't believe a Clinton Presidency would have been great either.That's why you campaign by giving the voters something to vote for, not against.Yes, although I'm hoping groups like Justice Democrats can gain enough momentum to change that.If you say so.Her loss was due to the electoral college, not the popular vote.  Supporting TPP and not campaigning in the rust belt hurt her, Many of them wanted to throw a brick through the window of the establishment.  I could never bring myself to vote for Trump because I always saw him as a con man of the highest order.  However, putting his vile rhetoric aside, there were times when he promised things that appeal to millennials.  Protecting jobs, protecting Social Security and Medicare, and ending TPP (which he did) are popular with millennials.Hillary may have swung more millennials to her side had she enthusiastically campaigned on these issues, and pointed out the likelihood that Trump wouldn't follow through.  Instead, videos were leaked showing her condescension towards young voters.  She was out-campaigned on several key leftist issues, which is rather embarrassing.  Like I keep saying, you've got to give the voters something to vote for rather than against.The reason millennials and people like myself voted third party is because we supported their platform.  If I'm going to be screwed over anyway by one of the two mainstream parties, I might as well vote my conscience. I'm just pointing out what some people consider to be successful.I don't think my criticisms of them are that unreasonable.  Unless, of course, you believe interventionism, trade deals, the surveillance state, welfare gutting, and an increased prison population are things to cheer about.On top of that, I gave Bill Clinton credit for the budget surplus.  I've also given Obama credit for cutting the deficit, reducing unemployment, and taking out Bin Laden.Of course winning is on the list of priorities.  But considering Democrats were wiped out of the White House, Congress, and governorships, perhaps neoliberalism is no longer working.Just a corporate tool screwing over poor people.</blockquote>

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