"Valley of the Dolls" vs "Mommie Dearest" vs "Dynasty"

Lankershim Blasdel 1

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Oh and how many languages did Alexis speak?
Someone who didn’t go to college and was busy screwing rich men in high school, I know it was supposed to be because she was an international woman but Joan’s delivery of her Italian dialogue in the Rome episode was cringe
 
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Snarky Oracle!

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Oh and how many languages did Alexis speak?
Someone who didn’t go to college and was busy screwing rich men in high school, I know it was supposed to be because she was an international woman but Joan’s delivery in her Italian dialogue in the Rome episode was cringe

That was the delicious part about Alexis' backstory: sophisticated and entitled European teenager who'd boinked half The Continent before she'd even met Blake.

During the gubernatorial race, I want Blake's vengeful ex-fiancée (whom Alexis pushed aside at 16) to show up and act as Blake's Georgetown political mentor who, secretly dying of cancer, is deliberately killed dies after orchestrating the assassination attempt on Alexis.

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Lankershim Blasdel 1

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Blake was a virgin before he married Alexis and once Krystle’s comatose body was left to be forgotten at the Swedish fish institute , he swore off sex for good, Rita should have returned in season 9, she fooled that idiot once.
I wanted Angie as Sable Colby, no relation to Alexis nor to Jeff Colby’s mother.
She would have been fantastic in that role.
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Angie in 1985
 
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Snarky Oracle!

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Blake was a virgin before he married Alexis and once Krystle’s comatose body was left to be forgotten at the Swedish fish institute , he swore off sex for good, Rita should have returned in season 9, she fooled that idiot once.
I wanted Angie as Sable Colby, no relation to Alexis nor to Jeff Colby’s mother.
She would have been fantastic in that role.

Noooooooooooooooo! Beacham must be Sable!!!

Angie is Opal Diamond, née Weatherwax --- I've got it all worked out!!

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Lankershim Blasdel 1

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Unfortunately Angie wouldn’t do either show.
Although she did the craptastic Hollywood Wives, it wasn’t a long commitment like a series.
Beacham was too young to play Sable also was an Alexis clone. She also overacted.
Angie was the correct age, 55
, I think they should have went with big names for the big 3 on The Colby’s
I don’t know who they originally wanted to play Frankie but Ross had to be on the very last of the list, she sucked big time,
 
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Snarky Oracle!

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Unfortunately Angie wouldn’t do either show.
Although she did the craptastic Hollywood Wives, it wasn’t a long commitment like a series.
Beacham was too young to play Sable also was an Alexis clone.
Angie was the correct age, 55
, I think they should have went with big names for the big 3 on The Colby’s
I don’t know who they originally wanted to play Frankie but Ross had to be on the very last of the list, she sucked big time,

Angie turned them down 3 times (and turned down FALCON CREST once) and/or requested $120,000/per episode -- which was probably her polite way of turning them down.

Never recast a role, even in your imagination, when it's already been correctly cast (e.g., Stephanie Beacham). I want Angie for Lady Noella Ashley or, ideally, Opal Weatherwax Diamond in Season 8 (just tell her that the part is inspired by Pamela Harriman, a "courtesan" Angie found fascinating --- a woman pianist Peter Duchin, who attended Blake & Krystle's second wedding, chided for "everything was always for Pamela!").

BBG was too young to play Larry's mama, but it worked.

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Lankershim Blasdel 1

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Angie turned them down 3 times (and turned down FALCON CREST once) and/or requested $120,000/per episode -- which was probably her polite way of turning them down.

Never recast a role, even in your imagination, when it's already been correctly cast (e.g., Stephanie Beacham). I want Angie for Lady Noella Ashley or, ideally, Opal Weatherwax Diamond in Season 8 (just tell her that the part is inspired by Pamela Harriman, a "courtesan" Angie found fascinating --- a woman pianist Peter Duchin, who attended Blake & Krystle's second wedding, chided for "everything was always for Pamela!").

BBG was too young to play Larry's mama, but it worked.

anne-baxter-phyllis-diller-joan-collins-angie-dickinson-zsa-zsa-gabor-BPBWER.jpg
A lot of wigs in this picture
 

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People just like crazy bitches.

I think there's a karmic connection between the Grande Dame Guignol genre of the '60s and the wealth-based nighttime soaps of the '80s -- one of the commenters in the "BATTLE AXE" mini-doc about STRAIT-JACKET asserts that the impact of WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE "was comparable to what happened when DYNASTY came out" twenty years later.

No, most of the nighttime soaps weren't as focused on malevolent older women -- you had villainous men, business scandals, youthful bed-hopping, etc. But they all seemed to strangely take focus, suddenly and unavoidably, when the mad Machiavellian former maiden stories were introduced.

FALCON CREST had Angela and, most obviously, Jacqueline Perrault (nazi-bedding, baby-stealing-and-selling super slut whose character, long-after she'd been killed off, seemed the catalyst for anything bad that happened in Tuscany Valley -- at least if that plotline was gonna work. And when the writers eventually forgot about her, replaced by inferior divas, the stories just didn't work).

DYNASTY, of course, had Alexis but the dragon lady roles the show needed -- the Denver dowagers -- largely didn't materialize; Sable and Caress were a bit on the young side; Constance was almost entirely a THE COLBYS entity and was only around for a year, and I always want Gloria Swanson (as Alexis' & Caress' mother) and Bette Davis (as Sable's mother) and Dame Judith Anderson (as Moldavia's Queen Mother and Jason Colby's aunt and the Fallmont matriarch) to make cameos which the tone-deaf producers never thought of. (But then DYNASTY, much like STRAIT-JACKET, had the most potential of the lot and yet did the absolute least with it).

Oh, I forgot about Mother Blaisdel. Yes, there's great potential there -- still angry that Krystle picked up her phone without asking.

KNOTS LANDING had the strongest female cast in all of series television at the time, but even it benefited from the presence of Ava Gardner and Ruth Roman. (In fact, Olivia de Havilland turned down a role on KNOTS). And even chauvinist-dominated DALLAS seemed to reach its apex when Lady Jessica (one episode was even named "Hush, Hush, Sweet Jessie") rode onto Southfork, the show dropping the ball when, five years later, Jessica returned for a serial murder plot the producers chose to play for campy laughs, thus neutralizing its potential impact; and Sue Ellen, who looked like Crawford's daughter already, seemed headed into granddame territory herself before being routed out of Texas before she could fully percolate.

People just like crazy bitches --- But why? Does it remind folks of their own maternal issues? The maniacal moms and grandiose grandmas or nutty aunties and bullying big sisters in their lives??

Is there some recognition factor going on?

My paternal grandmother had a whiff of Bette Davis and Angela Channing in her (and you'd all see it immediately); my maternal grandmother had a dose of Judith Anderson (whom she adored) and Miss Ellie in her; and my mother, whom I referred to (not to her face) as "Joan Crawford Lite" when I was a teenager, indeed still seems to me rather pointedly like Crawford in BABY JANE and STRAIT-JACKET (not in her homicidal moments but in her histrionic "tormented" shtick, almost exactly).

The camera just seems to tilt when these women enter those spaces.

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Willie Oleson

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DYNASTY, of course, had Alexis but the dragon lady roles the show needed -- the Denver dowagers -- largely didn't materialize
In a way that already happened when Fallon's mother showed up, and perhaps these main characters (Blake, Alexis and Krystle) shouldn't have any origins stories. Juicy stuff from the past, of course, but in DYNASTY it worked best when it was shrouded in mystery, doubt and our own imagination.
The idea that the Shepard sisters were moulded (and damaged) by mother dearest worked very well for the DALLAS characters, but I'd hate to see Alexis redeemed because of her mother's bad influence. She was the grande dame guignol who wouldn't allow her ex-husband to have a child with another woman.
A perfect, angelic woman, hence why Alexis desperately tried to destroy that image with bitchy insults even though she knew she was wrong - which made it all the more frustrating.

Bringing in a bigger monster (because anything less would render the grande dame's appearance null and void) could upstage the series' dark cloud that Alexis was supposed to be, and that's from a very optimistic point of view that they would succeed in doing so in mid-eighties DYNASTY.
I mean, if Alexis' mother is going to be of the same calibre (script wise) as Lady Ashley, then what's the point?

They work very well as legacy characters, which is exactly what Catherine Harrington, Jacqueline Perrault and Ruth Galveston did.
They only have to show up and change the course of history in the most devastatingly soapy way. They are characters that the real soap characters talk about.
Of course that could also have happened in DYNASTY, but I'm very protective of the Alexis character and old Hollywood grande dame guignol only works when it happens centre stage. Was there any room for that?
 

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but I'd hate to see Alexis redeemed because of her mother's bad influence

Hmmmm.... I just don't know.

You've made a similar point before. But does Hitler become redeemed when we learn his father beat the hell out of him?

Does Chase begin to look less compulsively belligerent because we get to see his nazi-f**ker mama, Jacqueline?
 

Willie Oleson

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Does Chase begin to look less compulsively belligerent because we get to see his nazi-f**ker mama, Jacqueline?
Odd that you mention Chase who was always hell-bent on doing the right thing. It didn't always look very nice (because a soap marriage needs tension) but at the core of it it was a good quality. And that doesn't need to be influenced, become better or worse, by a bad quality.
Also odd that you didn't mention here-comes-the-bad-guy Richard who was given the benefit of the doubt (to some degree anyway) precisely because of his unfortunate upbringing courtesy of Mother Perrault.

But I'm not sure if good vs. bad is always the deciding factor here.
Even if I would disregard the retcon of Blake's past as the self-made oil tycoon - clearly suggesting that there wasn't any Big Money before that happened and also one of the reasons why Cecil Colby hated Blake's success - it was simply the very on-screen existence of Tom Carrington that made Blake, and by extension his mansion and company, look a little smaller.
There had been something before him - a bigger house, on a bigger hill - and that was definitely not the vibe when the mighty Carringtons were introduced in the first season. Because of sheer luck (David Paulsen got involved) the Tom Carrington character contributed something very useful to the story in the last season, but nobody knew that when Tom Carrington appeared on screen in season 5 (or was it season 6?).
It would be the same if we'd find out that Jock Ewing had a filthy rich daddy, it just doesn't work on the canvas created for these soaps.

Blake and Alexis' origin is their marriage and divorce, and what Alexis did before she met Blake, well...those were only tittilating titbits, and what happened in Brussels should stay in Brussels.
Giving a Alexis a mother, a scenery-chewing dragon, unnecessarily requires everything to be placed in time, place and context. And I'm just not sure that solving that puzzle is always a good thing. If anything, the only character who'd benefit from the connection is the grande dame guignol herself.

Having said that, I still champion the possibility of the two Morell sisters (after taken up residence in Blake's mansion) being visited by their old and seemingly frail and innocent father on a foggy Hammer Horror night. But they will never find out that their father was the Mad Hatter serial killer.

All things considered I think only Dex Dexter could have had the monster mother, and perhaps she would have an opinion about her son and Alexis being a couple.
I mean, would it be some kind of indication if we find out that she's breast-feeded little Dexy until the age of 7? Which could explain his fetish for the opposite type, the underage crack whores? The DYNASTY Giallo writes itself....
 

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Also odd that you didn't mention here-comes-the-bad-guy Richard who was given the benefit of the doubt (to some degree anyway) precisely because of his unfortunate upbringing courtesy of Mother Perrault.

It is odd that I didn't think of Richard. Perhaps I'd accepted the retcon that he was really Angela's son --- despite the fact they barely even bothered to explain it.

Even if I would disregard the retcon of Blake's past as the self-made oil tycoon - clearly suggesting that there wasn't any Big Money before that happened and also one of the reasons why Cecil Colby hated Blake's success - it was simply the very on-screen existence of Tom Carrington that made Blake, and by extension his mansion and company, look a little smaller.

If only they'd bothered to write it -- to explain the retcon. I want to learn that part of Tom's nazis-to-Argentina pay-off was offered to Blake to help with the infrastructure expenses of his start-up company, with a percentage of Denver-Carrington's future profits in exchange. As a result, Tom's massive wealth was later generated from Blake's success.

Because of sheer luck (David Paulsen got involved) the Tom Carrington character contributed something very useful to the story in the last season, but nobody knew that when Tom Carrington appeared on screen in season 5 (or was it season 6?).
It would be the same if we'd find out that Jock Ewing had a filthy rich daddy, it just doesn't work on the canvas created for these soaps.

Season 5, and the wrong casting. Tom was funny but not believable as Blake's daddy.

Most of Tom's fortune should have been rationalized as having come from Blake (with the above-mentioned explanation).

Giving a Alexis a mother, a scenery-chewing dragon, unnecessarily requires everything to be placed in time, place and context. And I'm just not sure that solving that puzzle is always a good thing. If anything, the only character who'd benefit from the connection is the grande dame guignol herself.

Minx Morell would have only appeared for a single episode, ideally just after Alexis inherited ColbyCo. (6 months before Swanson died). I don't really think that would shrink Alexis, would it?

Also: the show was entitled "Dynasty" --- don't we need a dynasty for DYNASTY??

As @Richard Channing has discovered, Alexis' uncle, the half-brother of her haberdasher daddy, Stephen, was the quack doctor Theodore Morell, physician to the rich-and-famous of Europe and none other than der Fuhrer himself.

This is how her mother, Minx, met Adolf Hitler and began her long liaison with him. Leading Alexis to believe in Season 10 that he might be her biological father and into a panic. By the final episode, her detectives will determine that given where Adolf and Minx were in the fall of 1936, he couldn't possibly be her father -- but Alexis smirks to Caress that the relationship was re-ignited "a couple of years later" leading Caress to gasp at the ghastly possibility that she might be the offspring of The Grey Wolf.

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Willie Oleson

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Also: the show was entitled "Dynasty" --- don't we need a dynasty for DYNASTY??
Yes, except that every dynasty needs a significant beginning. Everybody has parents but that doesn't mean they have to part of that dynasty, unless we're talking about royal bloodlines.
The rags-to-riches stories made for TV often start with the down on his/her luck protagonist, determined to build his/her own empire.

It was different in The Colbys, and Jason was not the traditional patriarch but merely a family member employed to serve the Colby legacy. Even the mansion belonged to the Colby Estate, not to Jason and certainly not to his greedy wife.
Therefore it makes perfect sense that he didn't come across as powerful as Blake and Jock, he never had to be. He was more like Leslie Harrington.
Naturally, those same complainers will also complain about everything that was similar to the parent show.

Minx Morell would have only appeared for a single episode, ideally just after Alexis inherited ColbyCo. (6 months before Swanson died). I don't really think that would shrink Alexis, would it?
Well...all right, then. I guess it could have been a fun glamorous gimmick.
For what it's worth, I can totally picture a scene between The Colbys dowagers.
Connie: Mmmm....you still seem very embittered (hinting at the divorce after Agatha's husband came out as homosexual, hence his relocation to West Coast America).
Agatha: Oh, Constance, you should talk! I know exactly what kind of animal Andrew Colby was, although I myself have never contributed to the rumours regarding your unexpected leave to India (clearly hinting that she started the rumours).
 

Snarky Oracle!

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The rags-to-riches stories made for TV often start with the down on his/her luck protagonist, determined to build his/her own empire.

Again, Blake did build his own empire. Daddy Tom just floated him some nazi cash to help his son get his own business going. Tom only became filthy rich himself after Blake became wildly successful and those once-worthless percentage points in Denver-Carrington that Blake gifted his daddy finally paid off.
 

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To make that backstory resonate - it seems a bit much as information for the sake of information - you'd think the secret nazi treasure storyline should have happened shortly after Tom Carrington had died. And maybe it's not such a bad idea to give Sable's storyline to Dominique.
 

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To make that backstory resonate - it seems a bit much as information for the sake of information - you'd think the secret nazi treasure storyline should have happened shortly after Tom Carrington had died. And maybe it's not such a bad idea to give Sable's storyline to Dominique.

Oh, I don't know. Finding out about the nazi stuff in the final year or two seems okay to me. Had it been earlier, it would have occurred right on the heels of the aborted nazi treasure storyline on FALCON CREST ('84/'85).

Was Dr. Theodor Morell one of "Grandpa Stephen's" cousins? Everybody shrugs, the script careful not to use the name "Theodor," lest the reference be too specific.

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Oh, I don't know. Finding out about the nazi stuff in the final year or two seems okay to me
I'm just saying that the story of Tom Carrington needed the oomph at the time he was there, and if the link between him and Blake was the nazi money then it needed to be shown, not just told.
It's not possible to make what happened in season 9 retroactively relevant for season 5 and make those episodes look better than they really were.

We have to respect the Season Bible.
 
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