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Russia begins the invasion
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<blockquote data-quote="Frank Underwood" data-source="post: 419029" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>1. Even "Discredited serial liars" like Boris Johnson usually end up telling on themselves because they relish being contemptible. When they do, I tend to believe them.</p><p></p><p>2. It's most definitely a proxy war. Anti-Russia sentiment is extremely strong in the American political establishment. Politicians routinely talk more about destroying/crushing Russia and Putin than they do about defending Ukraine. As journalist Glenn Greenwald put it, "The purpose of the NATO war in Ukraine was never to defend Ukrainians. That was the childish fairy tale fed to Western populations to get them to support yet another proxy war. It was to sacrifice Ukraine to enrich the Raytheons and weaken Russia."</p><p></p><p>3. Putin has said he has no interest in Poland, and would only invade if Poland attacked Russia first.</p><p></p><p>4. My second bullet point covers why the US is really "supporting" Ukraine. It's about weapons deals in the hundreds of billions, as well as targeting our enemy Russia.</p><p></p><p>5. There is reporting to suggest that Boris Johnson did indeed tell Zelensky not to accept a peace deal on behalf of the West: <a href="https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch-why-did-the-west-stop-a-peace-deal-in-ukraine/" target="_blank">Diplomacy Watch: Did Boris Johnson help stop a peace deal in Ukraine? | Responsible Statecraft</a></p><p></p><p>6. I've never been one to say that Putin was "justified" in his invasion of Ukraine, but I understand the provocation involved. To say that NATO <em><strong>didn't</strong> </em>make any promises not to expand "is plain wrong." Here's some reporting from Salon on the subject:</p><p></p><p>The most critical events that have been airbrushed out of the West's political narrative are the violation of <a href="https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early" target="_blank">agreements</a> made by Western leaders at the end of the Cold War not to expand NATO into Eastern Europe, and the<a href="https://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/02/27/cheering-democratic-coup-ukraine" target="_blank"> U.S.-backed coup</a> in Ukraine in February 2014. Western mainstream media accounts date the crisis in Ukraine back to Russia's<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum" target="_blank"> 2014 reintegration</a> of Crimea, and the decision by ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine to secede from Ukraine as the<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhansk_People%27s_Republic" target="_blank"> Luhansk</a> and<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People%27s_Republic" target="_blank"> Donetsk</a> People's Republics.</p><p></p><p>But these were not unprovoked actions. They were responses to the U.S.-backed coup, in which an armed mob led by the neo-Nazi Right Sector militia <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector" target="_blank">stormed</a> the Ukrainian parliament, forcing elected President Viktor Yanukovych and members of his party to flee for their lives. After the events of Jan. 6, 2021, in Washington, that scenario should now be easier for Americans to understand.</p><p></p><p>Source: <a href="https://www.salon.com/2022/02/02/in-the-rapidly-worsening-ukraine-fiasco-the-us-is-reaping-exactly-what-it-sowed/" target="_blank">https://www.salon.com/2022/02/02/in...asco-the-us-is-reaping-exactly-what-it-sowed/</a></p><p></p><p>Here's another Salon article that discusses Western duplicity. It also details how several government officials expressed their concerns about NATO expansion:</p><p></p><p>Source: <a href="https://www.salon.com/2022/01/30/yes-putins-a-tyrant--that-doesnt-mean-his-ukraine-demands-are-unreasonable/" target="_blank">https://www.salon.com/2022/01/30/ye...nt-mean-his-ukraine-demands-are-unreasonable/</a></p><p></p><p>Journalist Aaron Maté and Professor John Mearsheimer discuss how NATO provoked Russia:</p><p></p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQknBjzMnds" target="_blank">U.S. ADMITS Russia Was Provoked Into Invading Ukraine! w/ John Mearsheimer</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Frank Underwood, post: 419029, member: 35"] 1. Even "Discredited serial liars" like Boris Johnson usually end up telling on themselves because they relish being contemptible. When they do, I tend to believe them. 2. It's most definitely a proxy war. Anti-Russia sentiment is extremely strong in the American political establishment. Politicians routinely talk more about destroying/crushing Russia and Putin than they do about defending Ukraine. As journalist Glenn Greenwald put it, "The purpose of the NATO war in Ukraine was never to defend Ukrainians. That was the childish fairy tale fed to Western populations to get them to support yet another proxy war. It was to sacrifice Ukraine to enrich the Raytheons and weaken Russia." 3. Putin has said he has no interest in Poland, and would only invade if Poland attacked Russia first. 4. My second bullet point covers why the US is really "supporting" Ukraine. It's about weapons deals in the hundreds of billions, as well as targeting our enemy Russia. 5. There is reporting to suggest that Boris Johnson did indeed tell Zelensky not to accept a peace deal on behalf of the West: [URL='https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch-why-did-the-west-stop-a-peace-deal-in-ukraine/']Diplomacy Watch: Did Boris Johnson help stop a peace deal in Ukraine? | Responsible Statecraft[/URL] 6. I've never been one to say that Putin was "justified" in his invasion of Ukraine, but I understand the provocation involved. To say that NATO [I][B]didn't[/B] [/I]make any promises not to expand "is plain wrong." Here's some reporting from Salon on the subject: The most critical events that have been airbrushed out of the West's political narrative are the violation of [URL='https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early']agreements[/URL] made by Western leaders at the end of the Cold War not to expand NATO into Eastern Europe, and the[URL='https://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/02/27/cheering-democratic-coup-ukraine'] U.S.-backed coup[/URL] in Ukraine in February 2014. Western mainstream media accounts date the crisis in Ukraine back to Russia's[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum'] 2014 reintegration[/URL] of Crimea, and the decision by ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine to secede from Ukraine as the[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhansk_People%27s_Republic'] Luhansk[/URL] and[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People%27s_Republic'] Donetsk[/URL] People's Republics. But these were not unprovoked actions. They were responses to the U.S.-backed coup, in which an armed mob led by the neo-Nazi Right Sector militia [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector']stormed[/URL] the Ukrainian parliament, forcing elected President Viktor Yanukovych and members of his party to flee for their lives. After the events of Jan. 6, 2021, in Washington, that scenario should now be easier for Americans to understand. Source: [URL='https://www.salon.com/2022/02/02/in-the-rapidly-worsening-ukraine-fiasco-the-us-is-reaping-exactly-what-it-sowed/']https://www.salon.com/2022/02/02/in...asco-the-us-is-reaping-exactly-what-it-sowed/[/URL] Here's another Salon article that discusses Western duplicity. It also details how several government officials expressed their concerns about NATO expansion: Source: [URL='https://www.salon.com/2022/01/30/yes-putins-a-tyrant--that-doesnt-mean-his-ukraine-demands-are-unreasonable/']https://www.salon.com/2022/01/30/ye...nt-mean-his-ukraine-demands-are-unreasonable/[/URL] Journalist Aaron Maté and Professor John Mearsheimer discuss how NATO provoked Russia: [URL='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQknBjzMnds']U.S. ADMITS Russia Was Provoked Into Invading Ukraine! w/ John Mearsheimer[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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