Menu
Forums
New posts
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Awards
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Forums
News & Politics
UK & Rest of World Politics
Russia begins the invasion
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Frank Underwood" data-source="post: 419089" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>It doesn't appear that there was an official agreement, but assurances were made when Geroge H.W. Bush was President in 1990:</p><p></p><p>Putin's central demand is that NATO remove troops from countries that joined the group of U.S.-allied nations after 1997. In 1990, under George H.W. Bush, Secretary of State James Baker repeatedly promised Soviet premier Mikhail Gorbachev and other Soviet leaders that if the USSR let the Warsaw Pact nations leave, NATO would not "move one inch eastward." As is <a href="https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early" target="_blank">detailed in declassified</a> U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents released in 2017, Bush and the leaders of West Germany, the U.K. and France gave similar assurances.</p><p></p><p>When the German magazine Der Spiegel examined these documents and interviewed those involved, <a href="https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html" target="_blank">its reporters concluded</a> that "there was no doubt that the West did everything it could to give the Soviets the impression that NATO membership was out of the question for countries like Poland, Hungary or Czechoslovakia."</p><p></p><p>Source: <a href="https://www.salon.com/2022/01/30/yes-putins-a-tyrant--that-doesnt-mean-his-ukraine-demands-are-unreasonable/" target="_blank">Yes, Putin's a tyrant — that doesn't mean his Ukraine demands are unreasonable | Salon.com</a></p><p></p><p></p><p>TYPING IN ALL CAPS doesn't prove your point, which is indeed being disputed:</p><p></p><p>“Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement,” wrote Fiona Hill and Angela Stent. <strong>“Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.”</strong></p><p></p><p>The news highlights the impact of former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s efforts to stop negotiations, as journalist Branko Marcetic <a href="https://twitter.com/BMarchetich/status/1564663210204172288?s=20&t=SpfDOSiQ1ABnoL42XLtEAg" target="_blank">noted</a> on Twitter.<strong> The decision to scuttle the deal coincided with Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv,</strong> during which he <a href="https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/05/5/7344206/" target="_blank">reportedly urged</a> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia for two key reasons: Putin cannot be negotiated with, and<strong> the West isn’t ready for the war to end.</strong></p><p></p><p>Source: <a href="https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch-why-did-the-west-stop-a-peace-deal-in-ukraine/" target="_blank">Diplomacy Watch: Did Boris Johnson help stop a peace deal in Ukraine? | Responsible Statecraft</a></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd forgotten about that because it wasn't posted <em>presently</em>. However, Jimmy Dore played a clip of Johnson calling it a proxy war verbatim. It didn't come from Dore himself.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Frank Underwood, post: 419089, member: 35"] It doesn't appear that there was an official agreement, but assurances were made when Geroge H.W. Bush was President in 1990: Putin's central demand is that NATO remove troops from countries that joined the group of U.S.-allied nations after 1997. In 1990, under George H.W. Bush, Secretary of State James Baker repeatedly promised Soviet premier Mikhail Gorbachev and other Soviet leaders that if the USSR let the Warsaw Pact nations leave, NATO would not "move one inch eastward." As is [URL='https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early']detailed in declassified[/URL] U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents released in 2017, Bush and the leaders of West Germany, the U.K. and France gave similar assurances. When the German magazine Der Spiegel examined these documents and interviewed those involved, [URL='https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html']its reporters concluded[/URL] that "there was no doubt that the West did everything it could to give the Soviets the impression that NATO membership was out of the question for countries like Poland, Hungary or Czechoslovakia." Source: [URL='https://www.salon.com/2022/01/30/yes-putins-a-tyrant--that-doesnt-mean-his-ukraine-demands-are-unreasonable/']Yes, Putin's a tyrant — that doesn't mean his Ukraine demands are unreasonable | Salon.com[/URL] TYPING IN ALL CAPS doesn't prove your point, which is indeed being disputed: “Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement,” wrote Fiona Hill and Angela Stent. [B]“Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.”[/B] The news highlights the impact of former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s efforts to stop negotiations, as journalist Branko Marcetic [URL='https://twitter.com/BMarchetich/status/1564663210204172288?s=20&t=SpfDOSiQ1ABnoL42XLtEAg']noted[/URL] on Twitter.[B] The decision to scuttle the deal coincided with Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv,[/B] during which he [URL='https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/05/5/7344206/']reportedly urged[/URL] Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia for two key reasons: Putin cannot be negotiated with, and[B] the West isn’t ready for the war to end.[/B] Source: [URL='https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch-why-did-the-west-stop-a-peace-deal-in-ukraine/']Diplomacy Watch: Did Boris Johnson help stop a peace deal in Ukraine? | Responsible Statecraft[/URL] I'd forgotten about that because it wasn't posted [I]presently[/I]. However, Jimmy Dore played a clip of Johnson calling it a proxy war verbatim. It didn't come from Dore himself. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
What month follows July?
Post reply
Forums
News & Politics
UK & Rest of World Politics
Russia begins the invasion
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top
