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<blockquote data-quote="Frank Underwood" data-source="post: 419101" data-attributes="member: 35">I said a journalist &quot;rightly pointed out&quot; what led to Russia intervening in Ukraine.&nbsp; That&#039;s hardly the same thing as saying Russia &quot;rightly intervened in Ukraine.&quot;Saying the West and NATO provoked Russia is simply a fact, but I never said it &quot;justified&quot; Putin&#039;s invasion of Ukraine.&nbsp; This is classic strawman argumentation on your part.I have the same take on Gaza.&nbsp; I acknowledge that Hamas terrorists provoked Israel on October 7, 2023, but that didn&#039;t justify Israel&#039;s genocide in Gaza.Again, you&#039;re making a strawman argument.&nbsp; Your assumption that I believe Ukraine &quot;deserved&quot; to be invaded by Russia is factually incorrect.&nbsp; I&#039;ve called Putin an imperialist, a war monger, and a madman on several occasions, but you always gloss over that.&nbsp; However, one can condemn Putin&#039;s actions, while also acknowledging that the actions taken by NATO and the West provoked Putin in the name of US imperialism.&nbsp; You&#039;re actually making my point with your 9/11 comparison, and you don&#039;t even realize it!&nbsp; The innocent Americans and foreign nationals didn&#039;t deserve to be murdered by terrorists on 9/11.&nbsp; However, acknowledging the provocation by US imperialists doesn&#039;t undermine that fact.That&#039;s a load of crap.&nbsp; I never said that Ukrainian and Gazan civilians did anything wrong.&nbsp; If I was trying to excuse their genocide and slaughter (which is a despicable claim), do you think I&#039;d be constantly calling for peace in those regions?&nbsp; Calling the conflict a &quot;proxy war&quot; doesn&#039;t mean that the citizens of Ukraine aren&#039;t victims.&nbsp; If anything, it solidifies that fact because they&#039;re being used as pawns by the West.&nbsp; The US&#039;s goal is to weaken Putin and Russia by any means necessary, and they&#039;ll use Ukrainians as cannon fodder to do so.&nbsp; To acknowledge that Putin was provoked doesn&#039;t excuse his invasion of Ukraine, but the US and NATO&#039;s role in provoking him shouldn&#039;t be swept under the rug either.I&#039;ve been just as consistent in my disdain of Israel&#039;s slaughter of civilians in Gaza, as well as the slaughter of civilians in Ukraine, despite your claims to the contrary.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Frank Underwood, post: 419101, member: 35"] I said a journalist "rightly [I]pointed out[/I]" what led to Russia intervening in Ukraine. That's hardly the same thing as saying Russia "rightly intervened in Ukraine." Saying the West and NATO provoked Russia is simply a fact, but I never said it "justified" Putin's invasion of Ukraine. This is classic strawman argumentation on your part. I have the same take on Gaza. I acknowledge that Hamas terrorists provoked Israel on October 7, 2023, but that didn't justify Israel's genocide in Gaza. Again, you're making a strawman argument. Your assumption that I believe Ukraine "deserved" to be invaded by Russia is factually incorrect. I've called Putin an imperialist, a war monger, and a madman on several occasions, but you always gloss over that. However, one can condemn Putin's actions, while also acknowledging that the actions taken by NATO and the West provoked Putin in the name of US imperialism. You're actually making my point with your 9/11 comparison, and you don't even realize it! The innocent Americans and foreign nationals didn't deserve to be murdered by terrorists on 9/11. However, acknowledging the provocation by US imperialists doesn't undermine that fact. That's a load of crap. I never said that Ukrainian and Gazan civilians did anything wrong. If I was trying to excuse their genocide and slaughter (which is a despicable claim), do you think I'd be constantly calling for peace in those regions? Calling the conflict a "proxy war" doesn't mean that the citizens of Ukraine aren't victims. If anything, it solidifies that fact because they're being used as pawns by the West. The US's goal is to weaken Putin and Russia by any means necessary, and they'll use Ukrainians as cannon fodder to do so. To acknowledge that Putin was provoked doesn't excuse his invasion of Ukraine, but the US and NATO's role in provoking him shouldn't be swept under the rug either. I've been just as consistent in my disdain of Israel's slaughter of civilians in Gaza, as well as the slaughter of civilians in Ukraine, despite your claims to the contrary. [/QUOTE]

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