Marvel Watching the Marvel Cinematic Universe from the beginning...

[Mel O'Drama]

Well, it's been a couple of days since I watched Runaways. It is a reflection of my enjoyment of the series, but not in the way you might think.

Usually, three episodes from the end of a series I'd be eager to find out how it ends, and just as eager to begin my next series. With Runaways I feel really sad about it ending and I'm glad I've put off the last few a little because it means I spend a little more time with these characters. I suppose the journey feels more important than the destination.

I know the next episode will be a Cloak & Dagger crossover, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they translate to live-action. Since their series isn't on Disney+, this may be my only chance to see them.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Runaways

Devil’s Torture Chamber / The Broken Circle / Cheat The Gallows​

Novel as it was seeing Cloak and Dagger in live action, it was also disappointing. But probably to be expected from a guest appearance in another show with multiple characters. They’re also away from the New York setting with which I associate them so it’s all very out of context. They fitted in fine with the cast, but perhaps a little too well as they just seemed to get lost in the mix and there was little about them that stood out as particularly interesting. Not helping the case was that both actors had really poor enunciation (he mumbled, she creaked and they both spoke too quickly) that made it difficult to understand what they were saying. But as mentioned, it was novel, and they were well-used. I’m just glad they weren’t the entire reason for me watching the series as it may have been anticlimactic.

The final few episodes managed to excite and create a sense of event and importance. The battle to rescue Alex from the Dark Dimension with Cloak and Dagger’s help was decent enough. The battle with Morgan le Fay in the penultimate episode felt like the series proper’s last hoorah, and it was especially pleasing to see all remaining PRIDE members and the Runaways together one last time.

The series still manages to move me from time to time. Once again, it was Gert’s goodbye to Old Lace that did it, so this is one MCU project where the CGI works for me. The text for the penultimate episode mentioned the team defeating Morgan “at an unthinkable cost”, so I was geared for there to be another death. As Tina got involved and started using all her energy (and blood) to help, I became convinced she’d be the person to die, so the sudden reveal that Gert had been bleeding out since being thrown into a chandelier by Morgan took me by surprise. It was effective because it had happened some minutes earlier and Gert had continued doing her thing. In a genre where people getting thrown into walls and objects is a minor and prosaic thing, it’s incredibly refreshing for it to have consequences like this.

The final episode did a nice job of bringing things full circle with the time travel back to the day of the first episode, reminding us - and them - how far they’ve come, and giving us a bit of a nostalgia trip that had added meaning because of what we now know. The entire premise seems heavily based on Avengers: Endgame from earlier in 2019, but when it’s this fun and effective I can forgive the lack of originality. It helps that the storyline began three years into the future after Gert’s death and gave the grieving and estranged friends the chance to revisit the battle of the previous episode and change the outcome of the battle - and most of their lives - for the better.

While Future Chase and Future Evil Alex running round at the same time as the Near Future and Past iterations of both characters was easy to digest, Future Chase sacrificing himself to save Present Day Gert blew my mind a little bit because Present Day Chase still existed afterwards, but with history changed he wouldn’t become Future Chase (or at least not this Future Chase). Likewise, Present Day Alex’s choices means he wouldn’t become Future Evil Alex. Then there was the Near Future girls happily fading away now that the Present Day* versions of themselves are saved. There so many timelines going on which leaves many, many questions about what will change and what will lead where and what will happen to the various version. Plus, because we’ve time-travelled and seen the near future as the present, it’s difficult to make peace with the near future’s not too distant past becoming the present again when we return to Morgan’s defeat and the proper timeline. So many questions. I’d make a terrible Timelord.

At three weeks and thirty three episodes this is my longest-running MCU visit yet, and certainly one of the most immersive. I’ve loved spending time with these characters and it’s left me wanting more. Not bad considering I gave serious thought to skipping this series altogether.





* “Present Day” being three years into the future from most of the series’ run, making the Present versions possibly further away from us than the “Past” versions from a year or two earlier. It’s confusing.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Here's how Runaways fits into my MCU ranking. It might well drop a few places when my buzz wears off and objectivity kicks in, but for now...

1. Captain America: Civil War
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Captain America: The First Avenger
4. Iron Man
5. Avengers: Endgame
6. Hawkeye
7. Runaways
8. The Incredible Hulk
9. Black Panther
10. Thor
11. Spider-Man: Homecoming
12. WandaVision
13. Spider-Man: Far From Home
14. Ant-Man
15. Black Widow
16. The Falcon And The Winter Soldier
17. Captain Marvel
18. Shang-Chi And The Legend Of The Ten Rings
19. Agent Carter
20. Avengers: Infinity War
21. The Avengers
22. Ant-Man And The Wasp
23. Doctor Strange
24. Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2
25. Loki
26. Guardians Of The Galaxy
27. Inhumans
28. Avengers: Age Of Ultron
29. Thor: The Dark World
30. Iron Man 2
31. What If…?
32. Eternals
33. Thor: Ragnarok
34. Iron Man 3

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Helstrom





Mother’s Little Helpers / Viaticum / The One Who Got Away​

This is another series that comes without the baggage of overly familiar characters. Daimon Hellstrom (two “L”s) appeared in a number of titles I dipped into back in the day - most notably The Defenders and West Coast Avengers. At the time he had a more typically superhero look, costume and code name - Hellstorm - but he never made much of an impression on me. The main thing I remember about him is that he was the husband of Patsy Walker, AKA Hellcat, and so I’ve mentally categorised him as a love interest rather than a character in his own right.

From the name to the visual thumbnails and brief summary of the series on Disney+ it’s clear that it’s in the supernatural horror vein (even the score is highly reminiscent of The Exorcist during scenes where Daimon is about to do his thing with possessed people). And it certainly ticks that box. There’s enough graphic violence, gore and prosthetic/CGI weirdness to keep horror fans satisfied, though the supernatural stuff just doesn’t really float my boat. In fact this has reinforced why the character never interested me when reading the source material.

I find myself viewing the series with something between detachment and disinterest, which has made watching these first three episodes a curious experience. Even though my focus is on the screen I feel like I’m tuned out. A few times I’ve realised I’ve struggled to connect and have thought none of it will make sense, then I’ve realised it’s all gone in by osmosis and - weirder still - I’ve kind of enjoyed it.

The aesthetics of the series are a definite selling point. With some gorgeous shadowy sets and colour palettes/filters which are primarily drabs such as greens, greys and browns, it perfectly balances the sumptuous and the cold: sometimes being both at the same time.

The casting seems good and the calibre of performances very strong indeed. I haven’t recognised any actors yet, which is no bad thing.

At this moment in time there’s no danger of this series cracking my MCU top ten (nor even top twenty), but at just ten episodes long it’s doable enough. I'm not invested, but I'm happy to see what happens next.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

In exciting news, the Netflix series have now shown up on Disney+. This means I can now dive into Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Power Man Luke Cage, Iron Fist, The Defenders and The Punisher.

Perfect timing since when Helstrom ends I'd have had no more Marvel projects to watch until Moon Knight begins.

I also found this handy watching order guide.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Helstrom

Containment / Committed / Leviathan / Scars / Underneath​

This has been a very strange journey for me.

The performances remain excellent. All key actors are great and bring a sense of intensity. The series continues to look great - albeit rather murky. There’s very little I actively dislike enough for this series to rank poorly.

But there’s also little real enjoyment in watching. At only ten episodes it’s feeling endless and, indeed, it’s taken me over a week to watch the first eight and I feel like I’ll probably have forgotten most of it in a few weeks’ time.

 

[Ome]

Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Power Man Luke Cage, Iron Fist, The Defenders

This is great news. I’ve avoided this thread when you passed all the stuff I’ve watched. I’m a little overdone with Marvel and only briefly tuned into WANDA VISION & AGENTS OF SHIELD. I have watched all those in the quote above enjoyed them very much.

We also watched SPIDER MAN FAR FROM HOME last night and what a treat that was.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

This is great news. I’ve avoided this thread when you passed all the stuff I’ve watched.

Well, only two more episodes of Helstrom left and I can dive into Daredevil.

I'll tag you when I begin in case you want to add any comments as I watch.

I’m a little overdone with Marvel and only briefly tuned into WANDA VISION & AGENTS OF SHIELD.

It's understandable. Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. is the only series I've decided I probably won't do.

How much of WandaVision did you watch? I really struggled with the first few episodes but as it unfolded it blew me away and I came out of it thinking "wow".

I'd recommend watching some of the Disney+ original series when you've decompressed a bit and feel like watching some more. Hawkeye was probably the best of the series in my eyes - just brilliant. I also really enjoyed Falcon & The Winter Soldier.

The Hulu series Runaways was a big surprise to me. I was expecting it to be a chore but really loved it. Even though it was the longest of the series I watched I still miss it. Other than a few little Easter eggs it didn't really feel connected to the wider MCU which could make it easier to watch.

I have watched all those in the quote above enjoyed them very much.

That's good news. I'm looking forward to discovering them.

We also watched SPIDER MAN FAR FROM HOME last night and what a treat that was.

I'm so peeved that this rights business keeps it off Disney+ and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that changes.

 

[Ome]

We also watched SPIDER MAN FAR FROM HOME last night and what a treat that was.

Well, I got that wrong! It was the latest film we say NO WAY HOME. All these very similar titles threw me.

I'll tag you when I begin in case you want to add any comments as I watch.

Yes, please.

How much of WandaVision did you watch?

We only did the first two. I know we should go back in, everyone I have spoken to says they struggled with the first couple of episodes, but it turns out to be a great series. Thankfully, it's not too many episodes, so I'm happy to go back to it.

I'd recommend watching some of the Disney+ original series when you've decompressed a bit and feel like watching some more.

Yes, I'm quite a moody person, though it's on;y recently that I have accepted this. It all depends on my mood, and I habit jumping genres with my TV viewing. I switch from superhero to historical to supernatural, and it circles.

Outside the Marvel series, I was pretty obsessed with GOTHAM, a brilliant series; I also had a lot of fun with ARROW, SUPERGIRL, LEGENDS OF TOMORROW & FLASH. Then I crashed and burned like I always do.

I also enjoyed SMALLVILLE.

GOTHAM & SMALLVILLE have many moments of TV gold within them.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Well, I got that wrong! It was the latest film we say NO WAY HOME. All these very similar titles threw me.

It throws me constantly as well.

It even threw me here because I assumed you were talking about No Way Home but didn't even notice that's not what you'd written.

We only did the first two. I know we should go back in, everyone I have spoken to says they struggled with the first couple of episodes, but it turns out to be a great series. Thankfully, it's not too many episodes, so I'm happy to go back to it.

I think it's good you decided to leave it and come back to it when you're back in a Marvel kind of place. If I remember, you watched all the films at quite a pace and I did the same. While I didn't entirely burn out, I have found myself slowing down to the point where it's taken me a week and a half to watch nine of the ten Helstrom episodes.

Yes, I'm quite a moody person, though it's on;y recently that I have accepted this. It all depends on my mood, and I habit jumping genres with my TV viewing. I switch from superhero to historical to supernatural, and it circles.

It's similar for me. I'll go from old British sitcom to documentaries to quiz shows. Part of the reason I'm really riding the Marvel train (apart from really enjoying it) is that I'm using my free Disney+ trial and I'm still minded to cancel it when the six months is up (though that's not a certainty), so I've felt a sense of being time limited with them.

I also had a lot of fun with ARROW, SUPERGIRL, LEGENDS OF TOMORROW & FLASH. Then I crashed and burned like I always do.

These have been on my radar for some time and I hope to watch them at some point, though probably not for a while as I don't want to end up comparing them with the more recent Marvel shows.

I also enjoyed SMALLVILLE.

GOTHAM & SMALLVILLE have many moments of TV gold within them.

Two more series I hope to watch sometime. I remember watching the pilot of Smallville when it first aired back in 2001. I really enjoyed it but ended up not continuing with it and it's been at the back of my mind ever since.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

It throws me constantly as well.

It even threw me here because I assumed you were talking about No Way Home but didn't even notice that's not what you'd written.





I think it's good you decided to leave it and come back to it when you're back in a Marvel kind of place. If I remember, you watched all the films at quite a pace and I did the same. While I didn't entirely burn out, I have found myself slowing down to the point where it's taken me a week and a half to watch nine of the ten Helstrom episodes.





It's similar for me. I'll go from old British sitcom to documentaries to quiz shows. Part of the reason I'm really riding the Marvel train (apart from really enjoying it) is that I'm using my free Disney+ trial and I'm still minded to cancel it when the six months is up (though that's not a certainty), so I've felt a sense of being time limited with them.




These have been on my radar for some time and I hope to watch them at some point, though probably not for a while as I don't want to end up comparing them with the more recent Marvel shows.





Two more series I hope to watch sometime. I remember watching the pilot of Smallville when it first aired back in 2001. I really enjoyed it but ended up not continuing with it and it's been at the back of my mind ever since.

I thought Smallville was excellent, especially the early seasons. My memory is a little imperfect, but I remember Clark and Zod as friends foe a least a while.
Gotham was an interesting alternative Batman universe. Don't want to spoil, but the versions of Penguin and Riddler were well written, and I liked Dr Leslie Thompson as younger woman. James Gorden was really the main character, and my favorite was Sean Pertwee ( son of Jon Pertwee, the definitive Doctor Who in my opinion) as a strong, younger Alfred

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Marvel Universe Wishlist

New Release -Morbius with Jared Leto could be interesting. Matt Smith (Doctor Who) has a major role.

Would like to see a good Fantastic Four movie. Maybe Ben is "cured", and has to make a choice about his appearance
in order to save his friends. Or the FF and Doctor Doom must team together to save earth
from a catastrophe.
A Submariner Movie
A Hulk/Bruce Banner recast - Mark Ruffalo is obnoxious with his extreme woke politics
A Kraven the Hunter movie?
A Spiderman movie with the Scorpion as one of the villains
A Spiderman movie with X - Men, with Spiderman mutating and seeking help from Charles.

Just some ideas for (bad? LOL) fan fiction at least

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I thought Smallville was excellent, especially the early seasons.

From the little I saw I remember it being quite soapy - with a focus very much on the human relationships - which is no bad thing.

Gotham was an interesting alternative Batman universe.

I'm certainly intrigued by it.

James Gorden was really the main character, and my favorite was Sean Pertwee ( son of Jon Pertwee, the definitive Doctor Who in my opinion) as a strong, younger Alfred

James Gordon and Alfred are two of the more interesting characters in the Batman world so I'm sure I'd enjoy that. I've seen Sean in a couple of things and he really resembles his Dad at times.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Would like to see a good Fantastic Four movie. Maybe Ben is "cured", and has to make a choice about his appearance
in order to save his friends. Or the FF and Doctor Doom must team together to save earth
from a catastrophe.

A Spiderman movie with the Scorpion as one of the villains

I really like these ideas. The Scorpion being featured could give J. Jonah Jameson a bigger role as well which would be a very good thing. Mac Gargan appeared in at least one of the new Spider-Man films so I hope there's a plan there.

While it's been touched on in previous film versions, I'd really like to see an authentic telling of the Green Goblin/Gwen Stacy storyline that ushered in the Bronze Age of comics and so is historically important. Likewise, I'd love to see it followed up with the early Hobgoblin storyline - complete with its mystery about the character's real identity - which would be a chance to tell that story without all the disappointing changes that happened along the way.

While it couldn't stretch to a whole film, I'd love to see a Marvel One-Shot type short of The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man. It's such a classic and a proper tearjerker and I think would translate really well.

A Spiderman movie with X - Men, with Spiderman mutating and seeking help from Charles.

More crossovers would be good. I'd actually like to see the X-Verse expanded in the MCU in the same way the Avengers were during the first three phases, with some solo films and spinoff teams such as The New Mutants (with Nova Roma, Selene and the Demon Bear), Excalibur (Captain Britain solo prequels would be a must, featuring his origin and going on to do the Jaspers' Warp storyline) and perhaps even X-Factor.


As far as my own wishlist and anticipated films go, I was quite excited by the buzz about a possible Spider-Woman film and really would love to see the Jessica Drew version finally make it into live action. It feels overdue.

Having really enjoyed Runaways, I think the mooted Power Pack film could work as well.

 

[Ome]

It even threw me here because I assumed you were talking about No Way Home but didn't even notice that's not what you'd written.

I think it's good you decided to leave it and come back to it when you're back in a Marvel kind of place. If I remember, you watched all the films at quite a pace and I did the same.

Yes, and then I dived into S.H.I.E.L.D and crashed. I know I will get my superhero mojo back soon, and I will have a great selection to choose from.

Part of the reason I'm really riding the Marvel train (apart from really enjoying it) is that I'm using my free Disney+ trial a

And there is no better way to do this.

We are big fans of OUTLANDER, and we watched all seasons via Prime. Last month, the latest season was released, but it's no longer accessible on Prime. We have to subscribe to another streaming service through Prime. We are now waiting for all episodes to air, and then we will take that service up with the free trial and binge-watch the season.

Two more series I hope to watch sometime. I remember watching the pilot of Smallville when it first aired back in 2001. I really enjoyed it but ended up not continuing with it and it's been at the back of my mind ever since.

As great as all the ARROW/FLASH etc... are, I hope you get to see both SMALLVILLE and GOTHAM because, unlike the various films of those heroes, the beginnings are full of great drama, lots of treats and both shows filled with a great ensemble cast.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I know I will get my superhero mojo back soon, and I will have a great selection to choose from.

You certainly will.

We are big fans of OUTLANDER, and we watched all seasons via Prime. Last month, the latest season was released, but it's no longer accessible on Prime. We have to subscribe to another streaming service through Prime.

I get really frustrated when that happens. Even with older series I've seen it happen where certain seasons aren't available or are more costly to watch.

We are now waiting for all episodes to air, and then we will take that service up with the free trial and binge-watch the season.

Oh, I'm glad you've found a way to play them at their own game and see the new episodes.

I hope you get to see both SMALLVILLE and GOTHAM because, unlike the various films of those heroes, the beginnings are full of great drama, lots of treats and both shows filled with a great ensemble cast.

That's good to know. I hope to check them out at some point. I suspect after I've watched all the Netflix Marvel series I'll want a break from superheroics for a while, but they're certainly on my radar for further down the line.

 

[Ome]

I suspect after I've watched all the Netflix Marvel series I'll want a break from superheroics for a while,

I'm sure of it. You have done much better than I did. It's nice to know that we can go back and do catchup in the future.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Helstrom

Vessels / Hell Storm​

Well, it’s over. And that feels like an achievement in itself.

Every demonic horror cliche has been contained in this series. From The Exorcist to Rosemary’s Baby to The Omen. And no doubt a number of more recent films with which I’m unfamiliar.

The series’ saving grace has been casting, and the supporting cast in particular. Elizabeth Marvel has been consistently good, as has June Carryl. Ariana Guerra is very likeable (even if I’ve never quite been able to get past her off-putting physical resemblance to Meghan Markle). Dallas’s Mitch Pileggi cropped up in the final episode playing Helstrom Sr. with his usual alpha male intensity.

The look of the series has also been a plus. The drab, murky, shadowy lighting and the gorgeous set design. Daimon’s mid-century home is somewhere I wouldn’t say no to living myself.

I’d struggle to categorise this as a bad series, and I suspect I’d have quite enjoyed this story as a two hour film. Perhaps it was either stretched a little thin, or hung round long enough to wear out its welcome. Either way, I’m more than ready to leave this demon and move on to the devil of Hell’s Kitchen.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

If I were to rank Helstrom:

1. Captain America: Civil War
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Captain America: The First Avenger
4. Iron Man
5. Avengers: Endgame
6. Hawkeye
7. Runaways
8. The Incredible Hulk
9. Black Panther
10. Thor
11. Spider-Man: Homecoming
12. WandaVision
13. Spider-Man: Far From Home
14. Ant-Man
15. Black Widow
16. The Falcon And The Winter Soldier
17. Captain Marvel
18. Shang-Chi And The Legend Of The Ten Rings
19. Agent Carter
20. Avengers: Infinity War
21. The Avengers
22. Ant-Man And The Wasp
23. Doctor Strange
24. Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2
25. Loki
26. Guardians Of The Galaxy
27. Inhumans
28. Avengers: Age Of Ultron
29. Thor: The Dark World
30. Iron Man 2
31. What If…?
32. Helstrom
33. Eternals
34. Thor: Ragnarok
35. Iron Man 3

 

[Angela Channing]

If I were to rank Helstrom:

1. Captain America: Civil War
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Captain America: The First Avenger
4. Iron Man
5. Avengers: Endgame
6. Hawkeye
7. Runaways
8. The Incredible Hulk
9. Black Panther
10. Thor
11. Spider-Man: Homecoming
12. WandaVision
13. Spider-Man: Far From Home
14. Ant-Man
15. Black Widow
16. The Falcon And The Winter Soldier
17. Captain Marvel
18. Shang-Chi And The Legend Of The Ten Rings
19. Agent Carter
20. Avengers: Infinity War
21. The Avengers
22. Ant-Man And The Wasp
23. Doctor Strange
24. Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2
25. Loki
26. Guardians Of The Galaxy
27. Inhumans
28. Avengers: Age Of Ultron
29. Thor: The Dark World
30. Iron Man 2
31. What If…?
32. Helstrom
33. Eternals
34. Thor: Ragnarok
35. Iron Man 3

I'm always intrigued to see where you rank the films and series. For me it would be a near impossible task because I like (or dislike) the individual films for very different reasons. I would say there are about 10 that I would put in the premier league but I wouldn't be able to rank them any further than that. The others are still pretty good films but not quite as good as my favourite 10 or so.

I think the 3 Spider-Man films in this MCU timeline are only group that I think have been consistently good, the others (Avengers, Iron Man and possibly even Captain America) all have at least one film in their series of which I am less fond. However, overall as a collection of films it's incredible how they have maintained such a high quality over the amount of films and amount of years they have been going for.