How are we supposed to feel about Taylor Swift?

[Emelee]

Post-modern songwriting sounds quite pretentious to me.

I found her initial entry into pop music to be quite banal and petty. She was a 20-something woman writing a song for her haters and exes like she was still in high school.

I haven't paid attention to her music since then, but I still here her referred to as the woman who writes about her breakups.

Post-modern is my way of describing some of todays songwriters because I come from the literary world where we've been in the post modern era from about WWII until now, or at least until recently. These things will be determined by future scholars.

When it comes to the themes Swift writes about, I can't call her out. How many songs are written about broken hearts? 600 million songs or so. I don't get why specifically Swift gets called out for it when she adds to that number.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Having seen her in concert last summer out in California I have to say she does put on one heck of a show. It was a concert I was dragged to but I can’t say I regretted it. I like some of her music but seeing her in person and how much she puts into her performance really made me a much bigger fan than I was previously.

 

[Frank Underwood]

When it comes to the themes Swift writes about, I can't call her out. How many songs are written about broken hearts? 600 million songs or so. I don't get why specifically Swift gets called out for it when she adds to that number.

I think it's because she went through a string of breakups that ended up being fodder for her songwriting. It was what people primarily knew her for.

I don't know if that's still the case, but people talk about her as if it is. I've heard people joke that Travis Kelce better watch out or he'll be next.

 

[Emelee]

I think it's because she went through a string of breakups that ended up being fodder for her songwriting. It was what people primarily knew her for.

I don't know if that's still the case, but people talk about her as if it is. I've heard people joke that Travis Kelce better watch out or he'll be next.

If some people gossip about that, they must be doing it because they wanna hate on Swift because she's so darn popular. She's so far from being the only one writing songs about exes and break-ups.

I know some people snicker about how many guys she's dated, which I don't get either. She's mid 30s, childless and has never married. Of course she can have many exes. I don't get the problem they have with her. If these people could just not bother about celebrities they don't like and focus on who they like instead... I'm sure they'd be happier people if they did. I've never understood trolling.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

If some people gossip about that, they must be doing it because they wanna hate on Swift because she's so darn popular. She's so far from being the only one writing songs about exes and break-ups.

I know some people snicker about how many guys she's dated, which I don't get either. She's mid 30s, childless and has never married. Of course she can have many exes. I don't get the problem they have with her. If these people could just not bother about celebrities they don't like and focus on who they like instead... I'm sure they'd be happier people if they did. I've never understood trolling.

But there is something about the way that Swift has always written her endless slew of break-up ballads. Other people write about those things, too, male and female writers. But the tone and effect just aren't the same.

 

[Emelee]

Having seen her in concert last summer out in California I have to say she does put on one heck of a show. It was a concert I was dragged to but I can’t say I regretted it. I like some of her music but seeing her in person and how much she puts into her performance really made me a much bigger fan than I was previously.

I've not seen her in concert, but I can fully understand what you mean. I've always ended up liking artists I've seen in concert more after the concert than before the concert. Seeing them do what they love and put emotions and joy into their performances, in person, and inviting the audience in, is a pure joy.

Well, it's really the same with all professions when seeing them do what they are truely passionate about. Actors in theatre of course, but also florists and carpenters etc.

 

[Emelee]

But there is something about the way that Swift has always written her endless slew of break-up ballads. Other people write about those things, too, male and female writers. But the tone and effect just aren't the same.

Then maybe that's what her fans appreciates? If she writes how she really felt during a certain time, it becomes raw and more real. The good, the bad and the ugly. Afterall, we're living in a time where people likes to share absolutely everything about their lives. Most just on social media.

 

[Frank Underwood]

If some people gossip about that, they must be doing it because they wanna hate on Swift because she's so darn popular. She's so far from being the only one writing songs about exes and break-ups.

I know some people snicker about how many guys she's dated, which I don't get either. She's mid 30s, childless and has never married. Of course she can have many exes. I don't get the problem they have with her. If these people could just not bother about celebrities they don't like and focus on who they like instead... I'm sure they'd be happier people if they did. I've never understood trolling.

Getting trolled and parodied comes with being a celebrity, but not all critiques are baseless. Many of Taylor's songs that I'm familiar with feel kind of juvenile to me.

I'm also not a fan of how overproduced and commercialized she's become. That's not unique to her, of course. It's just not my thing.

But there is something about the way that Swift has always written her endless slew of break-up ballads. Other people write about those things, too, male and female writers. But the tone and effect just aren't the same.

Yes. Swift seems vindictive and immature. She got flack early in her career for writing a song in which she threatened to get back at an ex by telling her friends he's gay.

The lyric was subsequently changed, although the original version is still floating around online.

 

[Emelee]

Getting trolled and parodied comes with being a celebrity, but not all critiques are baseless. Many of Taylor's songs that I'm familiar with feel kind of juvenile to me.

I'm also not a fan of how overproduced and commercialized she's become. That's not unique to her, of course. It's just not my thing.


Yes. She comes off vindictive and immature. She got flack early in her career for writing a song in which she threatened to get back at an ex by telling her friends he's gay.

The lyric was subsequently changed, although the original version is still floating around online.

I think her fans like that. The forbidden feeling of wanting revenge for getting hurt by someone you cared for. Instead of taking the high road and pretend you're only sad. The feeling of angry (even juvenile) vengence isn't pretty at all, which is probably why most try to hide that that's exactly what they are feeling. So when Swift writes songs about getting dumped and feelings of anger and revenge, she taps into her fans similar feeling. It may be comforting to hear your idol having had the same feelings and "join her" in dreaming about retaliation. Even if they will never go there. But it sure is nice to fantasize about getting even and feel better yourself. Letting your inner monster out to feel more at peace and get over the heartache.

I don't know all this. I have never spoken to Swift fans. I'm just speaking from my own experience of getting hurt by people who aren't nice. Not just romantic interests, but work-related issues as well. Sometimes, it helps getting over it by fantasizing about doing and saying things that you would never actually do.

 

[CeeCee72]

Yes. Swift seems vindictive and immature. She got flack early in her career for writing a song in which she threatened to get back at an ex by telling her friends he's gay.

The lyric was subsequently changed, although the original version is still floating around online.

"Picture to Burn" is the name of that song. And yes, the original version is still widely available (My child was playing it yesterday).

For context, that was one of her very early songs. She was still a teenager. Personally, I think too much was made of it.

 

[Frank Underwood]

I think her fans like that. The forbidden feeling of wanting revenge for getting hurt by someone you cared for. Instead of taking the high road and pretend you're only sad. The feeling of angry (even juvenile) vengence isn't pretty at all, which is probably why most try to hide that that's exactly what they are feeling. So when Swift writes songs about getting dumped and feelings of anger and revenge, she taps into her fans similar feeling. It may be comforting to hear your idol having had the same feelings and "join her" in dreaming about retaliation. Even if they will never go there. But it sure is nice to fantasize about getting even and feel better yourself. Letting your inner monster out to feel more at peace and get over the heartache.

I don't know all this. I have never spoken to Swift fans. I'm just speaking from my own experience of getting hurt by people who aren't nice. Not just romantic interests, but work-related issues as well. Sometimes, it helps getting over it by fantasizing about doing and saying things that you would never actually do.

Fair enough. I'm not sure if a male singer could get away with that as easily, but maybe I'm wrong.

"Picture to Burn" is the name of that song. And yes, the original version is still widely available (My child was playing it yesterday).

For context, that was one of her very early songs. She was still a teenager. Personally, I think too much was made of it.

Yes, although I think the reaction to it would have been even worse had she released the song a decade later. She's pretty much untouchable now, though.

 

[Emelee]

Fair enough. I'm not sure if a male singer could get away with that as easily, but maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe not. But it's not like women has been "allowed" to want revenge against the men who hurt them a long time. It's always been women confronting the other woman, the rival. Not the guy who was actually in the committed relationship. It's still mostly like that. You only need to watch soaps. Always the women attacking the rival and the man getting fought over. Even in music. Beyoncé for example where she goes after "Becky with the good hair" who Jay Z had some thing with. And now recently in her cover of Jolene where she's warning the other woman not to come close, or else. Instead of writing a song about warning Jay Z not to betray her with any of the women who tries to get him.

 

[CeeCee72]

Again, in context -

When Taylor started out, she was a country singer. Country women and revenge songs have been a thing way back since Loretta Lynn. At the height of Taylor's COUNTRY music popularity, the other two female superstars were Carrie Underwood and Miranda Lambert - BOTH who made a career singing revenge songs that were way more graphic and pointed than anything Taylor has ever written.

Maybe the reason Taylor writes so many revenge songs is because as a young artist, she was heavily influenced by the country music culture and its artists.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Again, in context -

When Taylor started out, she was a country singer. Country women and revenge songs have been a thing way back since Loretta Lynn. At the height of Taylor's COUNTRY music popularity, the other two female superstars were Carrie Underwood and Miranda Lambert - BOTH who made a career singing revenge songs that were way more graphic and pointed than anything Taylor has ever written.

Maybe the reason Taylor writes so many revenge songs is because as a young artist, she was heavily influenced by the country music culture and its artists.

Yes, I'm aware of that. It just feels trite when artists keep going to the same well for inspiration.

And just to show I'm not picking on the ladies; I also hate "bro country" with a passion.

 

[CeeCee72]

Yes, I'm aware of that. It just feels trite when artists keep going to the same well for inspiration.

And just to show I'm not picking on the ladies; I also hate "bro country" with a passion.

Bro-country makes my ears bleed and my teeth ache!

As for Taylor, it would be nice to see her branch out and do an entire album about something other than revenge. But I do feel like she is giving her fans what they want. Her career is a commercial enterprise and her fans seem to respond with great passion to her break-up music.

It's really music for women. Even I (at my advanced age) tend to favor Miranda Lambert's "burn it all down" songs over her more artistic and thoughtful ones.

Angry songs for angry women.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Bro-country makes my ears bleed and my teeth ache!

Same!

It's really music for women. Even I (at my advanced age) tend to favor Miranda Lambert's "burn it all down" songs over her more artistic and thoughtful ones.

Angry songs for angry women.

That makes sense. Miranda's a favorite of mine, but I gravitate more towards the artistic and thoughtful stuff.

 

[CeeCee72]

Same!


That makes sense. Miranda's a favorite of mine, but I gravitate more towards the artistic and thoughtful stuff.

One of my greatest disappointments in life is that she didn't live out her musical threats during her divorce, leaving Blake around to do more crappy bro-country .

 

[Frank Underwood]

One of my greatest disappointments in life is that she didn't live out her musical threats during her divorce, leaving Blake around to do more crappy bro-country .

That was infuriating to me. I liked Blake so much when he first started out, and then he chased the fad and did crap like "Boys Round Here." Bleh!

 

[CeeCee72]

That was infuriating to me. I liked Blake so much when he first started out, and then he chased the fad and did crap like "Boys Round Here." Bleh!

Although, Miranda is hardly blameless there as she and the Pistol Annie's defiled themselves by doing back up vocals on that song. Not to mention Miranda's habit of pairing with Jason Aldean.

Getting back to Taylor though...

It feels like (to me at least) she is using her music to work through her personal demons. Let's not pretend she had anything approaching a normal childhood. She had been working since puberty and had little time to experience a normal and healthy relationship. I think that probably influences her song writing.

 

[Emelee]

Angry songs for angry women.

I don't know about Miranda fans, but it's not the vibe I get from Taylor fans. And I wouldn't call Taylor's songs "revenge songs". I think her main message is telling her fans to be strong and stand up for themselves. And also for people to treat each other better. Just get rid of the d-bags.

When I think of the typical Swift fan, I think of a woman in her 20s swapping friendship bracelets with other fans who she just met at a Swift concert. That is apparently a thing with many of her fans.

But then there is also the less expected fan group. The Swiftie dads. I gather that it's quite a big fan group. Dads going with their teen daughters to the concerts because they too are fans.