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I'm fine with Ewings dying. But it's cool. I really don't mind not being considered "a real fan". I'm happy to be just "some weirdo who watches that ridiculous old show over and over again." They're just labels.
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TNT Dallas For Beginners
- Thread starter Willie Oleson
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I'm fine with Ewings dying. But it's cool. I really don't mind not being considered "a real fan". I'm happy to be just "some weirdo who watches that ridiculous old show over and over again." They're just labels.
K
Karin Schill
Guest
Really?
So which one did you want to kill off then?
I know some people didn't like Jesse Metcalfe as Chris on the show and was fine with the idea of him dying. But I never was.
Honestly if I had to sacrifice someone it might have been Ann, since she was married into the Ewing family. But I didn't want John Ross, Chris, PamBecca, Bobby or Sue Ellen to die. I didn't want Ann to die either even if I liked her character the least out of the six available options. I did like Ann though.
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It's not my decision to make. It's the storyteller's. I want to go on the journey they've created and be surprised by what happens.
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Some additional comments - and also how it compares to LORIMAR DALLAS.
The Story
Every season followed the concept of start-build up-climax. Nothing was ignored or swept under the carpet, they dealt with the story as it was.
It was well written, entertaining and satisfying.
The Episodes
Sometimes I started an episode review with a theme ("this episode is about...") mostly just for the fun of it.
But I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been inspired by the episodes themselves, and every episode looked very different, often like mini-movies.
I can't say the same about the classic soaps, which had so many repetitive scenes. But then they had to film more episodes.
Which brings be to the pace of the plotlines.
Yes, the pace of the plot twists was fast sometimes, but they had to tell the story in 15 episodes, not 25 or 30.
Considering the structure of the season stories, I'd say it varied from good to adequate, and most of the times it was good.
The Theme
If memory serves, one of the complaints was that it focussed too much on crime.
All the classic prime time soaps had plenty of crooks, psychopaths, murder mysteries and cartels (I think Knots Landing had the most) but stretched out over 200 or 250 episodes it feels comparatively less.
The classic series were mostly a mix of comfy-cosy family entertainment (all those pondering-over-a-cup-of-coffee scenes), guilty pleasure (romance, sex, scandalous drama), feuds and all kind of threatening events and characters (accidents, shootings etc).
I'd say that comfy-cosy family stuff was largely omitted from this show, but that has a lot to do with the premise and the characters. I honestly can't see how they could have implemented it without hindering the story.
This is a darker, grittier, grown-up version of DALLAS and let's not forget there were a lot of things they couldn't show back in the eighties.
Most of the current popular tv shows are far more brutal than their 1980s counterparts.
My grandmother was a very religious (Catholic) woman, and she thought DALLAS was a scandalous TV show with horrible characters. But she never missed one single episode. I'm just saying.
At the same time there are some fans who tend to over-romanticize the classic series and its characters, as if it were a modern version of Little House Of The Prairie.
No, sorry, that's not what made DALLAS a worldwide hit.
The Characters
This is simple: I loved them all. And I bet Carmen made some good chilli too!
The Look
I think it looked gorgeous, but Southfork's interior could have been a little more garnish and luxurious. A seperate living room would have been nice.
The Legacy
Some think that the producers (and especially the showrunner who "should burn in hell for all eternity") didn't understand DALLAS.
I couldn't disagree more. The Ewing legacy was a focal point throughout the whole series. The ancestors and parents - and how they affected the new generation - the land, birthright, a feud as epic as Hatfield And McCoy....
All these things that made DALLAS such an epic saga were still there. Of course it was more about Bobby and JR instead of Jock.
But if I wasn't familiar with the original show, I still would have understood what this was all about.
Nicolas Trevino
It's self-explanatory
This also alters my list of favourite US prime time soaps:
1. Peyton Place
2. Knots Landing
3. The Colbys
4. Dynasty
5. Falcon Crest
6. TNT Dallas
7. The Yellow Rose
8. Dallas
9. Flamingo Road
10. Emerald Point N.A.S.
11. Paper Dolls
Not sure where and how to rank the 90s and 2000s soaps.
I'm tempted to put "Sisters" and "Everwood" in my top 5. Oh well, never mind.
The Story
Every season followed the concept of start-build up-climax. Nothing was ignored or swept under the carpet, they dealt with the story as it was.
It was well written, entertaining and satisfying.
The Episodes
Sometimes I started an episode review with a theme ("this episode is about...") mostly just for the fun of it.
But I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been inspired by the episodes themselves, and every episode looked very different, often like mini-movies.
I can't say the same about the classic soaps, which had so many repetitive scenes. But then they had to film more episodes.
Which brings be to the pace of the plotlines.
Yes, the pace of the plot twists was fast sometimes, but they had to tell the story in 15 episodes, not 25 or 30.
Considering the structure of the season stories, I'd say it varied from good to adequate, and most of the times it was good.
The Theme
If memory serves, one of the complaints was that it focussed too much on crime.
All the classic prime time soaps had plenty of crooks, psychopaths, murder mysteries and cartels (I think Knots Landing had the most) but stretched out over 200 or 250 episodes it feels comparatively less.
The classic series were mostly a mix of comfy-cosy family entertainment (all those pondering-over-a-cup-of-coffee scenes), guilty pleasure (romance, sex, scandalous drama), feuds and all kind of threatening events and characters (accidents, shootings etc).
I'd say that comfy-cosy family stuff was largely omitted from this show, but that has a lot to do with the premise and the characters. I honestly can't see how they could have implemented it without hindering the story.
This is a darker, grittier, grown-up version of DALLAS and let's not forget there were a lot of things they couldn't show back in the eighties.
Most of the current popular tv shows are far more brutal than their 1980s counterparts.
My grandmother was a very religious (Catholic) woman, and she thought DALLAS was a scandalous TV show with horrible characters. But she never missed one single episode. I'm just saying.
At the same time there are some fans who tend to over-romanticize the classic series and its characters, as if it were a modern version of Little House Of The Prairie.
No, sorry, that's not what made DALLAS a worldwide hit.
The Characters
This is simple: I loved them all. And I bet Carmen made some good chilli too!
The Look
I think it looked gorgeous, but Southfork's interior could have been a little more garnish and luxurious. A seperate living room would have been nice.
The Legacy
Some think that the producers (and especially the showrunner who "should burn in hell for all eternity") didn't understand DALLAS.
I couldn't disagree more. The Ewing legacy was a focal point throughout the whole series. The ancestors and parents - and how they affected the new generation - the land, birthright, a feud as epic as Hatfield And McCoy....
All these things that made DALLAS such an epic saga were still there. Of course it was more about Bobby and JR instead of Jock.
But if I wasn't familiar with the original show, I still would have understood what this was all about.
Nicolas Trevino
It's self-explanatory
This also alters my list of favourite US prime time soaps:
1. Peyton Place
2. Knots Landing
3. The Colbys
4. Dynasty
5. Falcon Crest
6. TNT Dallas
7. The Yellow Rose
8. Dallas
9. Flamingo Road
10. Emerald Point N.A.S.
11. Paper Dolls
Not sure where and how to rank the 90s and 2000s soaps.
I'm tempted to put "Sisters" and "Everwood" in my top 5. Oh well, never mind.
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What a bizarre comment to make.
I'm fine with any character dying in any show I watch if it's part of the story. Sure I have characters I love over characters I'm not keen on or even worse that I want to see killed off, but there isn't a show that exists where I would quit watching because of a character getting killed off. Then again, I watch shows for more than just one character. There's no denying that JR was one of the best TV characters in soap history, but when news broke of Larry's death, we knew what was coming in the show. That doesn't mean I gave up on the show and I would have loved a few more seasons, hell, I'd be loving it if it was still going today.
The other bizarre comment you made was ''no real Dallas fan''. What does that mean? Who decides who is a real fan and who isn't? Is there a guidebook on this?
I love how many people have various opinions on the shows I watch, I enjoy trying to view their opinions from my perspective, this is what makes discussing shows so fascinating, but I can't work out if you're judging all Dallas fans or just those who don't mind a Ewing getting killed off.
Or maybe it's just the wrong choice of words.
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Thankyou, Willie! You've put into words my own feelings about New DALLAS, but much more clearly and succinctly than I've ever managed.
That's how it felt to me, too.
Yes, yes and thrice yes. They captured the essential essence of the original, as I've always understood it, and then proceeded to build on it in a powerful, exciting and moving way. As much as I've always loved Old DALLAS, I found the new series far more emotive.
Wash your filthy mouth out!
That's how it felt to me, too.
Yes, yes and thrice yes. They captured the essential essence of the original, as I've always understood it, and then proceeded to build on it in a powerful, exciting and moving way. As much as I've always loved Old DALLAS, I found the new series far more emotive.
Wash your filthy mouth out!
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No, I'm going to review them. Frame by frame.
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Definitely, it's why I love watching LOST over and over.
Having another season of DALLAS and watching Bobby, John Ross, Elana, Cliff & Sue Ellen* all deal with the death of Christopher sounds like pure soapy drama and even more-so because he's still young.
*I could go on
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Ooh...that's an interesting angle. I need to think about this (never thought of it before!)
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I was the same. Killing of Christopher was our last link to Pam. Cynthia had already confirmed Pam died in 1989. When she had Bobby kill off Katherine mid-sentence you could have passed me the smelling salts. Then Christopher. This was all beginning to reflect Games of Thrones. Was anyone safe? I can live with a major character being killed off if it adds weight to the story. Not in this case.
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It's been rumored JR has saved a place for her
K
Karin Schill
Guest
Interesting discussion. I can tell from your comments that some of you want different things from a TV show than I do.
I prefer it when the TV-series I watch makes me feel good when I watch them. I love happy endings and the most important aspect to me when I watch a TV show are the characters and couples. I want to be invested in the characters and I want to be able to ship different couples.
I think you just put your finger on what I was missing on Dallas TNT.
What you call comfy-cosy family entertainment.
To me those slow paced scenes that seem repeative gives a feeling of "realism" to a show and adds "character depth".
I agree with this, except I wouldn't call this more grown-up than the original Dallas since it was a grown up show too.
So I would use the word modern or contemporary instead of grown up.
True which is probably why I tend to prefer the classic TV-series to the current ones. The only current shows that I am keeping up with are: Fuller House, Young Victoria, Empire and well I still have two seasons left to watch of Bones.
My favorite out of those shows however are "Fuller House" and I think that pretty much says it all. I love family entertainment shows.
Also I think as a revival of a classic show "Fuller House" got it just right. I think it is probably because they have the same showrunner like on the original show, which with Dallas TNT wasn't an option as Leonard Katzman is long gone. Anyway Fuller House still feels like the same show only with some new characters. Also I love Juan Pablo Di Pace on the show. His character is so funny!
I think the main problem I had with Dallas TNT was that I expected it to be like the original Dallas but what we ended up with was a somewhat different show. Maybe that was why so many viewers tuned out during the run of the show. Because the show didn't match their expectations. They remembered Dallas as being something else.
Also since you listed your top ten shows. For the fun of it this is my top ten list:
1. Dallas (1978-1991)
2. Knots Landing (1979-1993)
3. Dynasty (1981-1989)
4. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1997-2003)
5. Angel (1999-2004)
6. Beverly Hills 90210 (1990-2000)
7. Friends (1994-2004)
8. I Dream of Jeannie (1965-1970)
9. Full House (1987-1995)
10. Dallas (2012-2014)
Well since you think I am passing judgment on others it was obviously the wrong choice of words since that was not my intention and if that's how it came across I appologize.
I think what I meant with the term "real Dallas fan" is:
- someone who is a fan of the original Dallas and has been a fan of Dallas for half their lives or longer.
- Someone who grew up with the show and is emotionally invested in the characters.
- Someone who was a fan long before Dallas TNT and is still a fan even now when the show is cancelled.
- Someone who is loyal to the show.
- Who would say it's their number one show ever.
- Who love the cast and has watched some of their other movies or TV-series.
- Who displays some type of fan behavior like for instance: posts here or somewhere else to discuss with other fans, keep rewatching the show or individual episodes over and over, write/read fanfics, make fan art, make/watch fan videos, attend events, meet other fans in real life.
This is my definition of the term I was thinking of. If anyone else would like to share their own definition of what they think of when they read the term please do so.
Oh and to avoid confusion. You don't have to match all of those descriptions to be a "real Dallas fan" IMHO it's enough with a couple of them. The most important one being that you were a fan of the original Dallas before watching Dallas TNT.
So come to think of it maybe I should have used the term "original Dallas fan" instead of "real Dallas fan". But like James said it's just labels and if anyone here on the board likes to be called a "forkie" fine by me. But it's not a term I would use to describe the Dallas fans!
I hope that clears that up.
I prefer it when the TV-series I watch makes me feel good when I watch them. I love happy endings and the most important aspect to me when I watch a TV show are the characters and couples. I want to be invested in the characters and I want to be able to ship different couples.
I think you just put your finger on what I was missing on Dallas TNT.
What you call comfy-cosy family entertainment.
To me those slow paced scenes that seem repeative gives a feeling of "realism" to a show and adds "character depth".
I agree with this, except I wouldn't call this more grown-up than the original Dallas since it was a grown up show too.
So I would use the word modern or contemporary instead of grown up.
True which is probably why I tend to prefer the classic TV-series to the current ones. The only current shows that I am keeping up with are: Fuller House, Young Victoria, Empire and well I still have two seasons left to watch of Bones.
My favorite out of those shows however are "Fuller House" and I think that pretty much says it all. I love family entertainment shows.
Also I think as a revival of a classic show "Fuller House" got it just right. I think it is probably because they have the same showrunner like on the original show, which with Dallas TNT wasn't an option as Leonard Katzman is long gone. Anyway Fuller House still feels like the same show only with some new characters. Also I love Juan Pablo Di Pace on the show. His character is so funny!
I think the main problem I had with Dallas TNT was that I expected it to be like the original Dallas but what we ended up with was a somewhat different show. Maybe that was why so many viewers tuned out during the run of the show. Because the show didn't match their expectations. They remembered Dallas as being something else.
Also since you listed your top ten shows. For the fun of it this is my top ten list:
1. Dallas (1978-1991)
2. Knots Landing (1979-1993)
3. Dynasty (1981-1989)
4. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1997-2003)
5. Angel (1999-2004)
6. Beverly Hills 90210 (1990-2000)
7. Friends (1994-2004)
8. I Dream of Jeannie (1965-1970)
9. Full House (1987-1995)
10. Dallas (2012-2014)
Well since you think I am passing judgment on others it was obviously the wrong choice of words since that was not my intention and if that's how it came across I appologize.
I think what I meant with the term "real Dallas fan" is:
- someone who is a fan of the original Dallas and has been a fan of Dallas for half their lives or longer.
- Someone who grew up with the show and is emotionally invested in the characters.
- Someone who was a fan long before Dallas TNT and is still a fan even now when the show is cancelled.
- Someone who is loyal to the show.
- Who would say it's their number one show ever.
- Who love the cast and has watched some of their other movies or TV-series.
- Who displays some type of fan behavior like for instance: posts here or somewhere else to discuss with other fans, keep rewatching the show or individual episodes over and over, write/read fanfics, make fan art, make/watch fan videos, attend events, meet other fans in real life.
This is my definition of the term I was thinking of. If anyone else would like to share their own definition of what they think of when they read the term please do so.
Oh and to avoid confusion. You don't have to match all of those descriptions to be a "real Dallas fan" IMHO it's enough with a couple of them. The most important one being that you were a fan of the original Dallas before watching Dallas TNT.
So come to think of it maybe I should have used the term "original Dallas fan" instead of "real Dallas fan". But like James said it's just labels and if anyone here on the board likes to be called a "forkie" fine by me. But it's not a term I would use to describe the Dallas fans!
I hope that clears that up.
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K
Karin Schill
Guest
Oh and this is getting way OT. But if anyone is interested in learning more about fandom as a phenomenon in general I can recommend you to read a couple of books on the topic that I read while studying at the University:
Lewis, Lisa A. (Editor.), (1992), in The adoring audience - Fan culture and popular media London: Routledge.
(this one is especially good since it includes different texts from several authors and gives perspectives from more than one source)
Stacey, Jackie (1994) Star gazing- Hollywood cinema and female spectatorship, London: Routledge
(more focused on female fans of classic Hollywood stars)
Sandvoss, Cornel (2005) Fans – The Mirror of consumption, Cambridge: Polity Press.
Then there is of course this one that is about Dallas more specifically:
Ang, Ien (1985) Watching Dallas - Soap opera and the Melodramatic Imagination.
I've found reading these books a truly eye-opening experience that taught me more about myself and others.
So well I can recommend those books to anyone who's interested.
Lewis, Lisa A. (Editor.), (1992), in The adoring audience - Fan culture and popular media London: Routledge.
(this one is especially good since it includes different texts from several authors and gives perspectives from more than one source)
Stacey, Jackie (1994) Star gazing- Hollywood cinema and female spectatorship, London: Routledge
(more focused on female fans of classic Hollywood stars)
Sandvoss, Cornel (2005) Fans – The Mirror of consumption, Cambridge: Polity Press.
Then there is of course this one that is about Dallas more specifically:
Ang, Ien (1985) Watching Dallas - Soap opera and the Melodramatic Imagination.
I've found reading these books a truly eye-opening experience that taught me more about myself and others.
So well I can recommend those books to anyone who's interested.
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That's far too complex for me, I just want to enjoy my shows without being judged as to whether I'm a real fan or not.
And no, I don't think you're judging me, we all have our own interpretations and how we view a show and it's great that we can share/discuss these because more often it highlights stuff that I may have missed or seen in another light.
This thread has been a blessing because it's balanced much better than what we had with the TNT while the show aired. I have no issues with anyone trashing a show and giving reasons why they are not enjoying it, what I don't care for is when it's the same complaint going over and over to a point where I can no longer keep reading.
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Yes, that loyalty thing is tricky
I'm mostly loyal to myself.Although I have no idea what qualifies for "disloyal fan".
I think those discussions were more chaotic and emotional (like what happened after CW had released the trailer for NuDynasty) and I find that interesting too.
But at some point it became far too repetitive, and sometimes more about the viewers than the show itself.
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Yes, they shouldn't have been afraid to kill off a Ewing but it would have been a wasted opportunity not to have had Christopher wrapped in bandages. A hospital visit from Lucas - the perfect way to introduce the character.
"Daddy chose you but it's my turn now. I'm going to have everything that was yours. So sleep on big brother...sleep on."
"Daddy chose you but it's my turn now. I'm going to have everything that was yours. So sleep on big brother...sleep on."
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If I went by the threads on here I would say anyone who trashes the original show or likes TNT's version.
There doesn't appear to be much room for someone liking both shows.
Brilliant and sooooo Dallas
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For me, DALLAS wasn't about happiness or endings. I liked that it went on and on and on and whatever happiness there was was mostly fleeting. I liked the tragic aspects of DALLAS the most, I think -- that this was the world the characters were born into and could never truly escape.
Shipping is an entirely alien concept to me. Is it mostly a girl thing?
I'm not sure what loyalty to a TV show means. I watch something because I enjoy it. If I stop enjoying it I might continue to watch for a while in the hopes that it improves, but if it doesn't, I'll eventually give up. Like Willie said, I'm more loyal to myself and my own enjoyment.
I'm not sure. Sometimes I'd say it is, sometimes I'd say it isn't. I'd say New DALLAS has enhanced my enjoyment of the series as a whole.
I'm not sure what "loving the cast" means. I don't think I'd watch anything solely because someone from DALLAS was in it. I'd be very interested to see Josh Henderson in something else though. And Elena Ramos's current role as the therapist on the LETHAL WEAPON TV series looks interesting.
I'm not a lover of fan fiction. I feel I have a good enough understanding of dramatic structure to realise that I don't have a good enough of understanding of dramatic structure to write anything that would come close to what a professional scriptwriter would come up with. Simply put, I am not worthy.
I don't think it should matter either way -- anymore than discovering DOCTOR WHO during its original run or since it came back in 2005 makes a difference to how "real" a fan someone is of that show.
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