Dallas - A New or Old Beginning?

[Rove]

On another thread Sir Michael Parkinson recoiled in horror after watching a recent episode of Coronation Street and the level of violence shown. Ome (Soapchat Poster) crafted the following response;

Of course it's a long way from the 60s, just like Doctor Who & Star Trek are nothing like their shows from that era.

It's going out to a different audience and even though I'm enjoying the 80s Corrie, someone as simple as me can see that show wouldn't survive on prime time TV today.

TNT Dallas was meant to focus on the next generation but failed. It was clearly being produced for today's audience but still failed. Which brings me to question. If Dallas had been produced and presented in the style of its "golden years" could it have recaptured some of its success, that is, better than what was presented?

 

[Karin]

I think it would have worked better if it had been more true to the way the original Dallas was told. It was great storytelling and a lot of people miss that kind of slow paced TV these days where you really get a chance to get to know the characters.

Sure the new show looked fab in HD and I don't really miss the freeze frames but I do miss the time spent on the build up of the storylines and the pay offs that followed.

The new show kept building up to things with disappointing ends (no pay off). I think the clearest example of this was how the viewers were lead to believe that Pam might return and then it was revealed that she had been dead all along.

 

[tommie]

If Dallas had been produced and presented in the style of its "golden years" could it have recaptured some of its success, that is, better than what was presented?

Oh God no.

It would've bombed. Dallas was a child of its time - it worked because there was nothing like it at the time. But now? It would feel outdated and oldfashioned. Whatever you think of TNTDallas, you have to realise that it had to be updated. You might or might not agree with what TNTDallas did, but doing oldDallas wasn't an option.

 

[tommie]

The new show kept building up to things with disappointing ends (no pay off). I think the clearest example of this was how the viewers were lead to believe that Pam might return and then it was revealed that she had been dead all along.

See? This is one of the things when I would say they got it right - we finally got closure on Pam. Victoria was never going to do the show and well, no Victoria, no Pam.

Also - it was unbelieveable that Pam would've stayed away from Christopher anyway.

 

[Elizabeth Ewins]

I agree and disagree with this thread. I certainly don't want clothes and hairstyles and sets and language of the 80's.But I think that slow storytelling where you get to know and care for the charactors and having it be charactor driven storylines would have worked. Fabulous sets and hi definition definitely would have worked.

 

[tommie]

I agree and disagree with this thread. I certainly don't want clothes and hairstyles and sets and language of the 80's.But I think that slow storytelling where you get to know and care for the charactors and having it be charactor driven storylines would have worked. Fabulous sets and hi definition definitely would have worked.

I'd like to think there's a way of slowly keeping the water boiling while having fast-driven plots at the forefront. It's a balance that many show runners today don't get.

Have your A- and B-plots in the audiences face, but have that C-plot boiling in the background.

 

[pete lashmar]

I've been watching The Wire recently and even today it is an acclaimed drama. But, like Lorimar Dallas it's a slow ride - characters are able to breathe, plots are able to unfold unlike todays TV shows. A 10 episode run of Dallas as a slow burner could still work. In an age of binge watching put all 10 episodes out at once, as they do with Netflix and Dallas could be must watch again.

 

[Rove]

It was great storytelling and a lot of people miss that kind of slow paced TV these days where you really get a chance to get to know the characters.

And that's what I miss most. The slow burn of good story-telling, leading to a cliffhanger which would get you through the off-season. I'm not talking daytime soap speed or the break-neck speed of TNT Dallas.

 

[Frankenstein Underworld]

Oh God no.

It would've bombed. Dallas was a child of its time - it worked because there was nothing like it at the time. But now? It would feel outdated and oldfashioned. Whatever you think of TNTDallas, you have to realise that it had to be updated. You might or might not agree with what TNTDallas did, but doing oldDallas wasn't an option.

I would have rather had the show "bomb" and feel like Dallas, rather than have it bomb and be unrecognizable. That's why I think it's funny when people say the show would have failed if it had been more like the original Dallas because it failed even with the all of the changes. The new show was a convoluted mess. An "updated" Dallas doesn't mean the focus changes from an oil and cattle family to drug cartels. IMO, the new show was at its best during the fleeting moments when it evoked the feel of the original.

Yes, the pacing needed to be a bit faster to fit with the shorter seasons, but that doesn't mean you throw reason and logic out the window. The details clearly didn't mean a damn to Cidre, which is why characterizations often changed on a dime. Cidre only cared about her "delicious" moments, whether they made sense or not. That's why Cliff casually orchestrates a bombing that kills his grandchildren, Pamela Rebecca has a drug fueled threesome with her husband and his mistress, and one of the villains actually works for the CIA.

There's ambiguity and gray areas, and then there's outright sloppy writing. Cidre relied on the latter.

I agree and disagree with this thread. I certainly don't want clothes and hairstyles and sets and language of the 80's.But I think that slow storytelling where you get to know and care for the charactors and having it be charactor driven storylines would have worked. Fabulous sets and hi definition definitely would have worked.

I've said this in the past as well. It was the aesthetic of the show that needed to be updated, not the storytelling. Dallas was meant to be a prime time soap, not a crime drama.

The pacing needed to be a bit faster because the seasons were more condensed, but it should have still focused on the themes of the original show.

As for the sets, the continuations of Full House and Roseanne are using sets modeled after the originals. There's no reason Dallas couldn't have done the same. Update the decor, yes, but keep the floor plan the same. Instead, they made the house as unrecognizable as the rest of the show. The new set felt cold and soulless, much like the series itself.

 

[Rove]

There's no reason Dallas couldn't have done the same. Update the decor, yes, but keep the floor plan the same. Instead, they made the house as unrecognizable as the rest of the show.

You're absolutely right. I had no sense of orientation while viewing TNT Dallas. Take the case of the two images below;

​

The image on the left is of 4800 Park Lane, Dallas and is what Lorimar Southfork interior was modelled after. The image on the right is TNT Southfork and look where it leads to...straight outside rather than to the formal lounge room.

Give me the updated 4800 Park Lane anyday. It's what I expected the Ewing family would be living in 2012.

 

[Frankenstein Underworld]

You're absolutely right. I had no sense of orientation while viewing TNT Dallas. Take the case of the two images below;

View attachment 7678​

The image on the left is of 4800 Park Lane, Dallas and is what Lorimar Southfork interior was modelled after. The image on the right is TNT Southfork and look where it leads to...straight outside rather than to the formal lounge room.

What's funny is that they tried adding the room leading to the breakfast terrace, but they put it in the wrong spot. It should have been located behind the old living room (it was the dining room on the new show). Instead, they put it directly in the center rear of the house where the chimney with french doors on both sides should have been.

Richard Berg was the set designer, and he's also the guy behind those ugly water color portraits. Needless to say, I'm not a fan of his work.

Give me the updated 4800 Park Lane anyday. It's what I expected the Ewing family would be living in 2012.

Yes!

 

[Rove]

and he's also the guy behind those ugly water color portraits. Needless to say, I'm not a fan of his work.

I agree. I found those portraits rather distasteful, insulting even, and not just to the viewer. With regards to TNT Southfork I thought the funniest move was the old dining room had now become Bobby's office.

 

[Rove]

've been watching The Wire recently and even today it is an acclaimed drama.

Interesting that this series has popped up in this thread. A few days ago at work some of the guys I work with had high praise for this series and recommended I seek it out. I just happened to mention this to my elder brother and he has the box set. Guess I'm in for a binge session.

 

[lbf522]

The number one problem was placing someone in charge who did not care about the original series and decided to her own thing. The Mexican Cartel mess was awful.

 

[stevew]

On another thread Sir Michael Parkinson recoiled in horror after watching a recent episode of Coronation Street and the level of violence shown. Ome (Soapchat Poster) crafted the following response;


TNT Dallas was meant to focus on the next generation but failed. It was clearly being produced for today's audience but still failed. Which brings me to question. If Dallas had been produced and presented in the style of its "golden years" could it have recaptured some of its success, that is, better than what was presented?

YES

 

[stevew]

The number one problem was placing someone in charge who did not care about the original series and decided to her own thing. The Mexican Cartel mess was awful.

I agree using a show runner who didn’t seem to like, know or understand the original was the true problem. But I didn’t entirely dislike the drug cartle part or the court room battles or the basic plots she used. Dallas was family and business - the Ewing family, and she strayed away from that.

First she wanted her own Hispanic family but instead of incorporating them she used an Upstairs / Downstairs stereo type. She seemed to want to create everything new.

My greatest issue is that I felt she switched up too much. It was bad enough they switched from the original set to a set that was unrecognizable, i didn’t feel JR was JR or Bobby was Bobby, and so many others were missing. Even when they got the actor like Lucy and Ray, they were still missing in they just popped in and off while others were never even mentioned. But if you never knew the original there was still the problem that you couldn’t trust her as a writer even with her own story. She didn’t just kill off people you liked (kind of a Game of Thrones thing), she constantly change them up for the shake of shocking you.

With TNT Dallas we got couples and then they switch partners. The bad guy (Harris) turned out to be a pathetically manipulated dunce. The so call good guy (Chris) hurt people and then justified it instead of agonizing over it. The strong woman (Ann) turned out to be beat up by men at every turn, does nothing all day and then toke her husband’s BS. The domineering mom (Judith) was a coke head. The victim and heroine (Elena) destroyed the people who cared about her and helped a baby killer. The bad boy (John Ross) was pathetic and weak. I’m all for some complexity but damn I couldn’t make heads or tails of who anyone really was.

She wrote just to shock. She wrote to turn everything upside down. Dallas didn’t fail, her style of writing failed the genre.

 

[lbf522]

Stevew, love your analysis and so agree with all of it.

 

[stevew]

Stevew, love your analysis and so agree with all of it.

Thank you. Thank enjoy fan fiction writing and in a way Dallas DNT was fab fiction, just poorly done. It was done with the obvious intent to do better than the original, to make the characters more complex, with more shocking plots, more more bitting social commentary but accomplished none of it. Dallas may have ended up in its movies a campy soap but the first years it was a riviting business / political / family drama that got the attention of the world.

In my latest fan fiction I go to the shows 50th anniversary or more and give John Ross grown kids. In TNTs version I’d have pictured John Ross in his mid twenties anyway with the story lines they used. So in my fan fiction he fills the role of Jock but altered just slightly as his youth was much different. And Lucy the role of Miss Ellie helping her cousin raise his three children. Jack is like Bobby, everyone likes him, a bit of a playboy, drawn to politics and tries to be a good guy. His wife is like Pam started out, pushing her husband to power over being that playboy except unlike Pam she’s from the right family. Ellie is JR but as a woman. Steven is Gary but gay. I’m not attempting to tell a story that’s better than this original Dallas. I’m attempting to understand, appreciate and be as good as the original Dallas in modern times. I think that makes a big different which CC didn’t understand and cost us our beloved show.

 

[Rove]

She wrote just to shock. She wrote to turn everything upside down. Dallas didn’t fail, her style of writing failed the genre.

And yet she continues to find work in Hollywood.

http://deadline.com/2017/10/nbc-developing-legal-drama-eternal-cynthia-cidre-1202198863/

How did it come about that failure in your chosen field of work equates to continued support in the industry? Her resumé should be of some concern to industry leaders.

:brick:

 

[stevew]

And yet she continues to find work in Hollywood.

http://deadline.com/2017/10/nbc-developing-legal-drama-eternal-cynthia-cidre-1202198863/

How did it come about that failure in your chosen field of work equates to continued support in the industry? Her resumé should be of some concern to industry leaders.

:brick:

There were good parts to Dallas. Maybe if she can focus on those, focus on character development and not just shock value, it’ll work. I wish her the best, I just wish she’d been better fir Dallas. Maybe we all need her agent.