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Sadly, you're right. That's why discussions like these are largely academic. Hatred runs deep, and not just from the warring factions...
War is also lucrative for certain parties, unfortunately.
Hamas' attack on Israel ---Israel's genocide in Gaza
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War is also lucrative for certain parties, unfortunately.
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I used to think that about the situation in Northern Ireland and a peaceful solution seemed impossible because both sides were so intrenched in their positions and there was a huge amount of hatred and suspicion between the communities. However, the sides were brought together and peace talks were successful. Next year will be 25 years since that agreement became effective, that's a quarter of a century of peace in that region and potentially thousands of lives saved (more than 3500 people were killed in The Troubles). So I'm never dismissive about peace negotiations nor about including terrorists in those talks, whether they be in Hamas or in the Israeli government, because achieving peace is so important.
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Yes, I do see a certain degree of parallel with Northern Ireland but I think the big difference is that fundamentally the Irish were always one people with a political dispute. In the Middle East we have two peoples who don't even recognise a mutual right to exist.
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An Israeli man gets murdered by pro-Palestinians.
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"An Israeli man gets murdered by pro-Palestinians." Oh, well thank goodness pro-Israelis are too civilized to commit hate crimes against Palestinians...
I'll never understand why some people continue to act like this is a one-sided conflict and only focus on atrocities committed by one side.
I'll never understand why some people continue to act like this is a one-sided conflict and only focus on atrocities committed by one side.
It would be a great thing for humanity if they could achieve peace in that region, and it's still my hope that will happen someday. Unfortunately, it seems highly unlikely to me.
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The last thing I ever want to do is agree with either of these statements but I’m afraid I have to in this case. I hope we are all wrong and peace can someday be attained but I can’t honestly say I’m very optimistic.
@Angela Channing is 100% correct in that there’s nothing more important than peace. We must never give up hoping for that in some respect but with this particular situation I fear that window has long closed. I hope I’m wrong; I want to be wrong.
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Oh look, it's a jew murdered at a pro-Palestinian protest:
www.nbcnews.com
Jewish man killed in altercation at dueling pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian rallies in California
Witnesses said Paul Kessler fell and struck his head during a confrontation with protesters Sunday in Ventura County, the sheriff's department said. He died Monday.
www.nbcnews.com
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US politicians and their media apparatus seem to think Israel is the 51st state, so naturally they're only interested in crimes against Jews/Israelis.
Of course, that's only half of the story:
The heart-wrenching murder of 6-year-old Wadea Al-Fayoume in suburban Chicago on Oct. 14, targeted for his Palestinian heritage and Muslim faith, sent shockwaves nationwide. Sadly, Palestinian and Arab Americans were not surprised. In the days prior to the murder of Wadea, our organization — the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee — made repeated pleas to the Biden administration. We reached out to the White House and other government officials to explain how the administration’s language around the war on Gaza would cause great harm to our communities, because Biden was repeating sensationalist claims and diminishing Palestinians’ suffering. Our calls and messages were unanswered.
In a display of inconsistency, elected officials were quick to voice their indignation in the wake of Wadea’s murder, scrambling to release statements to express their outrage. It was those very same figures who, just hours prior, had been engaged in discourse that undermined the safety of the Palestinian community.
In recent weeks, the Arab and Palestinian American communities have been thrust into a turbulent sea of increased hate, discrimination and violent attacks, reminiscent of the dark days following Sept. 11, 2001. However, the hate and discrimination that our community is experiencing today is far more dangerous.
Unlike in the aftermath of 9/11, our organization has found this is a sophisticated and coordinated campaign of defamation, silencing and intimidation. Many of these campaigns are calculated and connected, targeting not only Palestinian and Arab voices, but also those who simply speak up for Palestinian rights, including Muslim Americans. Such harassment and targeting, much of it carried out by pro-Israeli extremists, has led to a widespread vilification of the community, leading to violent attacks on Arab Americans.
The offices of our organization were bombed in October 1985, killing our West Coast regional director, Alex Odeh, in Santa Ana. Those responsible for the assassination were affiliated with the Jewish Defense League, or JDL, a terror organization. Nearly 40 years to the day after his death, the JDL flag is being waved by pro-Israel extremists, a direct threat to the safety and well-being of Arab and Palestinian Americans.
We, as well as other advocacy groups and organizations, have documented racist verbal attacks extending beyond isolated incidents: university staff targeting students; K-12 students facing backlash, intimidation and dehumanizing language by other students, teachers and school boards; homes being shot at, protesters being physically assaulted and community members facing threats; and targeting in the workplace. There is also a mass mobilization of threats and attacks against Arab, Palestinian and Muslim organizations, including my own, forcing cancelations of conventions by the venues that were to host those events.
In addition, we have seen resolutions and directives at the federal and state levels attempting to outlaw Palestinian solidarity student groups and civil society organizations, and using dangerous rhetoric that fans the flames of hate and, in turn, silences voices that are supposed to be protected under the 1st Amendment.
For decades, attacks on our community have been largely ignored, only garnering attention during turbulent times. In 2017, Arabs and Muslims were celebrated by Democrats and liberals in pushing back against then-President Donald Trump. Thousands of individuals rushed to the airport the night the “Muslim Ban” was signed. Today, some of those same individuals as well as some civil rights groups that we have reached out to are refusing to speak or meet with our organization to learn more about our perspective as Arab and Palestinian Americans.
The Arab and Palestinian community in the U.S. is worried about what the future holds. The larger part of our community believed it had a president that it could lean on to set the right tone, and push back against hate targeting our community and our ancestral homelands abroad. Apparently, that is not the case. The president rolled out a strategy this week to combat Islamophobia. But this approach is limiting: “Islamophobia” is a broad term that doesn’t have to necessarily include Arab or Palestinian voices, and could mean the administration wouldn’t have to meet with Arab and Palestinian groups, specifically. For instance, only one Palestinian American was present at a recent meeting with Muslim organizations at the White House. Even if it’s well-intentioned, the timing of this initiative reflects poorly on the Biden administration, because it appears to our communities as though the administration is trying to walk back some of the damage done as civilian casualties mount in Gaza.
It has become clear, particularly over the past two decades, that neither political party can properly represent our large and growing community. We can no longer offer our vote and support in exchange for nothing. A poll released Tuesday shows support for Biden among Arab Americans was at 59% in 2020, but is now at 17%. We must be protected, and our concerns must be addressed.
The Arab community knows that we are not alone in this fight against hate. We know that there are other communities in this country that are also experiencing threats and violence. We stand alongside all marginalized communities, advocating for justice, equality and an end to hate and bigotry.
Source: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/sto...rab-americans-muslims-discrimination-backlash
Of course, that's only half of the story:
Opinion: Arab, Palestinian and Muslim Americans are being targeted. Why isn’t Biden listening to our pleas?
The heart-wrenching murder of 6-year-old Wadea Al-Fayoume in suburban Chicago on Oct. 14, targeted for his Palestinian heritage and Muslim faith, sent shockwaves nationwide. Sadly, Palestinian and Arab Americans were not surprised. In the days prior to the murder of Wadea, our organization — the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee — made repeated pleas to the Biden administration. We reached out to the White House and other government officials to explain how the administration’s language around the war on Gaza would cause great harm to our communities, because Biden was repeating sensationalist claims and diminishing Palestinians’ suffering. Our calls and messages were unanswered.
In a display of inconsistency, elected officials were quick to voice their indignation in the wake of Wadea’s murder, scrambling to release statements to express their outrage. It was those very same figures who, just hours prior, had been engaged in discourse that undermined the safety of the Palestinian community.
In recent weeks, the Arab and Palestinian American communities have been thrust into a turbulent sea of increased hate, discrimination and violent attacks, reminiscent of the dark days following Sept. 11, 2001. However, the hate and discrimination that our community is experiencing today is far more dangerous.
Unlike in the aftermath of 9/11, our organization has found this is a sophisticated and coordinated campaign of defamation, silencing and intimidation. Many of these campaigns are calculated and connected, targeting not only Palestinian and Arab voices, but also those who simply speak up for Palestinian rights, including Muslim Americans. Such harassment and targeting, much of it carried out by pro-Israeli extremists, has led to a widespread vilification of the community, leading to violent attacks on Arab Americans.
The offices of our organization were bombed in October 1985, killing our West Coast regional director, Alex Odeh, in Santa Ana. Those responsible for the assassination were affiliated with the Jewish Defense League, or JDL, a terror organization. Nearly 40 years to the day after his death, the JDL flag is being waved by pro-Israel extremists, a direct threat to the safety and well-being of Arab and Palestinian Americans.
We, as well as other advocacy groups and organizations, have documented racist verbal attacks extending beyond isolated incidents: university staff targeting students; K-12 students facing backlash, intimidation and dehumanizing language by other students, teachers and school boards; homes being shot at, protesters being physically assaulted and community members facing threats; and targeting in the workplace. There is also a mass mobilization of threats and attacks against Arab, Palestinian and Muslim organizations, including my own, forcing cancelations of conventions by the venues that were to host those events.
In addition, we have seen resolutions and directives at the federal and state levels attempting to outlaw Palestinian solidarity student groups and civil society organizations, and using dangerous rhetoric that fans the flames of hate and, in turn, silences voices that are supposed to be protected under the 1st Amendment.
For decades, attacks on our community have been largely ignored, only garnering attention during turbulent times. In 2017, Arabs and Muslims were celebrated by Democrats and liberals in pushing back against then-President Donald Trump. Thousands of individuals rushed to the airport the night the “Muslim Ban” was signed. Today, some of those same individuals as well as some civil rights groups that we have reached out to are refusing to speak or meet with our organization to learn more about our perspective as Arab and Palestinian Americans.
The Arab and Palestinian community in the U.S. is worried about what the future holds. The larger part of our community believed it had a president that it could lean on to set the right tone, and push back against hate targeting our community and our ancestral homelands abroad. Apparently, that is not the case. The president rolled out a strategy this week to combat Islamophobia. But this approach is limiting: “Islamophobia” is a broad term that doesn’t have to necessarily include Arab or Palestinian voices, and could mean the administration wouldn’t have to meet with Arab and Palestinian groups, specifically. For instance, only one Palestinian American was present at a recent meeting with Muslim organizations at the White House. Even if it’s well-intentioned, the timing of this initiative reflects poorly on the Biden administration, because it appears to our communities as though the administration is trying to walk back some of the damage done as civilian casualties mount in Gaza.
It has become clear, particularly over the past two decades, that neither political party can properly represent our large and growing community. We can no longer offer our vote and support in exchange for nothing. A poll released Tuesday shows support for Biden among Arab Americans was at 59% in 2020, but is now at 17%. We must be protected, and our concerns must be addressed.
The Arab community knows that we are not alone in this fight against hate. We know that there are other communities in this country that are also experiencing threats and violence. We stand alongside all marginalized communities, advocating for justice, equality and an end to hate and bigotry.
Source: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/sto...rab-americans-muslims-discrimination-backlash
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People are calling for a "two-state solution" as if it's a simple policy that can b achieved just by saying it.
Hypothetically, I agree. I just don't see how you get there from here. Israel maintains that Hamas would only use an independent state as a base to attack them - a not illogical position given Hamas' stated aim of driving Israel into the sea. Even if Hamas was to magically renounce that aim, why should anyone believe them at this point? Meanwhile, the actions Israel takes in the name of security are only inflaming the Arab hatred of them even further. It's a vicious circle and neither side can be the one to get off first.
Hypothetically, I agree. I just don't see how you get there from here. Israel maintains that Hamas would only use an independent state as a base to attack them - a not illogical position given Hamas' stated aim of driving Israel into the sea. Even if Hamas was to magically renounce that aim, why should anyone believe them at this point? Meanwhile, the actions Israel takes in the name of security are only inflaming the Arab hatred of them even further. It's a vicious circle and neither side can be the one to get off first.
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I don’t see it either. I do hope we’re both wrong but I don’t think we are. Unfortunately we are probably too far past that at this point.
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Now, Israel has bombed the Iranian embassy in Syria, killing several.
Are we already in WW3?
Are we already in WW3?
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Yes, and the guy helping us get there should be wearing depends in a nursing home eating Jello. Of course, the willing dupes praise him as the world crumbles.
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Apparently, Israel has now attacked Iran directly -- in response to Iran's response a couple of days ago (to the attack on its consulate in Syria -- an act of war to begin with) of slow-motion drones, easily shot down (unlike the supersonic missiles Iran could have used) and aimed at military targets in Israel (and not civilian ones) as a "warning" Israel has chosen not to respect.
Apparently, Israel has also lobbied some shots at Iraq.
Gaza, Syria, Iran and Iraq --- it would appear that Bibi is indeed trying to initiate a WW3.
Norman Finkelstein calls Israel "a lunatic state" and says he doesn't use "lunatic" or "crackpot" frivolously:
Finkelstein: Israel Is Prepared to Drag the Rest of the World Down with Them (youtube.com)
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I always figured the right's unwavering support of Israel was tied to Christian fanaticism, but this has now become an issue they're divided on.
In contrast, the neoliberals seem united in their support for Israel. Bill Maher recently did another "today's generation doesn't know anything" segment on his Club Random podcast, and he pointed to Gen Z's opposition to the genocide in Gaza as evidence that they're "misinformed." Sadly, lunatics are not without their self-righteous enablers.
Israel's continued acts of aggression are indefensible, but I'm sure their supporters will robotically proclaim "Israel has a right to defend itself" until their dying breath.
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Yes, the Democrat voters in the States are not in line with the politicians of both parties regarding Israel's actions -- which will cost the Democrats votes in November (which is why Biden and the White House are now making noises about Bibi "going too far" ... but they don't really mean it).
Speaking of pundits, I have a hard time sitting through foolish Bill Maher's various shows (I'll start them but won't always finish them). He is sooo stupid, with his endless "I'm-cutting-through-the-bullshit!" bullshit --- and he just talks over everybody anyway. It's maddening. (And booze and weed don't help as per Club Random).
I don't know that much about the Mossad, but it's allegedly close to the CIA (as one would assume). And if the biggest business in Washington is indeed sexual blackmail, then we'd have to guess the various intelligence services, ours and theirs, share their portfolios of American politicians fellating fallopian fetuses before eating them. (But that's just conjecture).
Madison Cawthorne (perhaps the best name in District of Columbia history) was telling the truth. As you come into the legislature, you get invited to these "sexual events" -- even though most of the participants are geriatric dudes .... and suddenly Foggy Bottom becomes Faggy Bottom, and it's all on video.
It's gotta effect the way a congressman votes. Hence, Israel -- and the American corporations -- get everything it wants. Always.
But that's just a conspiracy theory.
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Tucker Carlson discusses with Joe Rogan the CIA's wholesale blackmail of American politicians (further discussed here on Dore's show):