Leaving Neverland

pete lashmar

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A few odd things happened today - Oprah has taken every single clip of the documentary discussion off her you tube channel & it''s been confirmed that after Jimmy's confession of having sex in a room above the train station at Neverland, that the train station hadn't actually been built at that time so it couldn't have happened. Also more and more media outlets including The Sun, The Express & The Mirror (in the UK) are reporting on conflicting evidence against the claims made by Wade & Jimmy.

And finally Wade's mum Joy has been called out after claiming, in court, that Wade did go with the family to the Grand Canyon and wasn't therefore left alone at Neverland - as she claimed in the documentary.

It's slowly being pulled apart by the mainstream media at last.
 

Karin Schill

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Interesting. Still we are talking about stuff that happened some 30 years ago when Wade and Jimmy were kids. So given the time that has passed since then it's possible that they remembered some details wrong. However it is also possible that some of the things in the documentary might be fabricated to fit the angle of the movie...

I don't know there's something about the director that really bugs me. It's like he doesn't like MJ and therefore enjoys being the man who brings him down...

Who was also a man with sexual desires like any other man. Where did he get it? Surely not from Lisa Marie Presley.

I might be in the minority about this one, but I truly believe that MJ loved Lisa Marie Presley and that they had a real marriage!
Or well at least as real as it can get when you are MJ and Lisa.

I believe he knew them @Karin Schill and knew them on a personal level but I don’t believe he abused them. I have watched the documentary when it was shown in Ireland a couple of weeks ago and I don’t believe either man - something about them doesn’t ring true to me. I’m sorry.

You have nothing to be sorry for Sarah. We all believe what we believe. I wish I could believe in MJ's innocence but to me their story was convincing. If you are right though and it's really all lies I guess it's only a matter of time before the truth comes out.
 
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pete lashmar

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I don't know there's something about the director that really bugs me. It's like he doesn't like MJ and therefore enjoys being the man who brings him down...

Dan Reed has repeatedly said that the film isn't about Michael Jackson but about Wade & Jimmy. Yet he seems obsessed by the man and has even said he'd be interested in doing a film about the 2005 court trial - so I agree with you on that, he feels the need to bring him down.

With regard to Jimmy's allegation about the train station - he does go into some detail about it, so yes I appreciate time erases memory, but he firmly stated they had sex in a room above the station, but it wasn't there when he was, it was built 2 years later when Jackson was away on tour.

Also with Jimmy he stated in court documents that he only became aware that he'd been abused in 2013 when he saw Wade on The Today Show - yet his mum said she danced when he died, happy that he couldn't hurt another child...in 2009 - how does that work?

But I think the fact that Oprah has taken anything to do with the film off of her sites & Twitter is hugely important, why would she do that?
 

Alexis

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But I think the fact that Oprah has taken anything to do with the film off of her sites & Twitter is hugely important, why would she do that?
It could be a legal thing? If the estate is indeed suing the film makers?
Today was the first day I really sat and read Jackson fan/defenders posts and comments online. A very special bunch of people I have to say. No logic, no reason, just vitriol and rage.
 

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To be honest, I slowly begin very tired of this discussion on the internet that I have decided to declare Michael Jackson to be innocent myself, unless they come up with very hard evidence, and so far they have not really succeeded at all.

I watched the documentary out of curiosity, and I can't really get much sense from their stories, even though they were emotional, that says nothing at all.
They were children, and as a child you can experience something completely different, than as an adult. And i do believe there was just a child inside Micheal Jackson beacuse he never had a childhood himself, like Barbra Steisand said, she refused doing a duet with Mcheal Jackson because he was to childish.

And why don't they come up with their stories sooner and not 10 years later after Micheal Jackson has passed away?. What also struck me in that documentary is that the two men had a feeling that they were being put aside by Michael, because he was now more being seen with Macaulay Culkin, so I really get a jealousy feeling abou this, because they were not more important to Micheal, so it sounds more like a revenge action to me.

Having said this, I continue to enjoy Micheal Jackson's music. :)
 
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pete lashmar

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It could be a legal thing? If the estate is indeed suing the film makers?
Today was the first day I really sat and read Jackson fan/defenders posts and comments online. A very special bunch of people I have to say. No logic, no reason, just vitriol and rage.

Unfortunately there are some fan(atics) of many celebrities online whose arguments seem to consist of "Well you didn't know them" (like they do:confused:) and just scream and shout at anyone that doesn't agree with them and are very abusive.

With Jackson there many of these but there are also some brilliant people involved with the Innocent campaign - including many investigative reporters) that simply respond by giving factual details of any issue being discussed.

For anyone not wanting to read through he said/they said posts but would like to hear the growing evidence against Wade & Jimmy I'd highly recommend You Tube videos featuring Charles Thomson. Also have a look for Liam McEwan - Liam uploaded a video yesterday that interviews quite a few people involved in Jackson's life, including his studio producer who I've never heard from before. Both these people give a real insight into the abuse claims.
 

pete lashmar

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Isn't it interesting that neither of the mothers, nor Wade's sister, or the wives have been heard from in any of the media outlets since the film was screened. You'd think they'd be backing up Wade & Jimmy. I get the feeling someone told them to stay well away and say nothing to anyone for fear of putting their foot in some of the lies that have been woven.
 

pete lashmar

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After many signed legal declarations & sworn depositions that he was abused between 1998 & 1992, Jimmy's account of having sex at the railway station has now been commented on by Dan Reed on Twitter -

"Yeah there seems to be no doubt about the station date. The date they have wrong is the end of the abuse.".

Construction on the station began in 1993, Michael first saw it in 1995.

So now we are expected to believe that all his sworn declarations etc are wrong and that he was abused up to 16/17 years old - so not dumped after reaching puberty as claimed in the film - and whilst Jackson was now married to Lisa Marie.

How Dan Reed can so casually say this is unbelievable, he's changing the dates to fit the film now.

Add this to -

Jimmy saying he was taken to Euro Disney in 1988 - when it didn't open until 1992

Wade being in a 10 year relationship with Bradi Jackson, which is never mentioned in the film.

A meal discussed at Neverland. Wade claimed was before the trial to help persuade him to testify - but it was after the trial with Brandi & Taj Jackson also there.

Jimmy never being asked to testify at the 2005 trial - he claimed in the film he refused and Jackson got angry & threatened him - but the Judge ruled months before that he could not testify, so could never have been asked.

Wade did go to the Gran Canyon with his family, he was never left alone at Neverland as the film claims - this is from a sworn deposition by his mother.

I think Dan Reed is starting to realise that the holes are getting bigger.
 
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Alexis

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I cant buy what Wade, or Jimmy or their parents swore in depositions as they had at that time already sworn to protect Jackson. They admitted already that they lied in court so how is it now a huge revelation to you?

Also you have the Euro Disney dates confused? Or that's a typo?
 

pete lashmar

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I cant buy what Wade, or Jimmy or their parents swore in depositions as they had at that time already sworn to protect Jackson. They admitted already that they lied in court so how is it now a huge revelation to you?

Also you have the Euro Disney dates confused? Or that's a typo?

Oh yes typo - was 1988 he said they went.

The depositions were made in 2013 for their case against the Estate for abuse, so quite recent.

EDIT - Joy's deposition was from 1993, apologies - so many depositions it gets confusing.
 
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pete lashmar

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Interesting theory on why Oprah has deleted all the clips of the film from her YT channel. When Oprah filmed her interview with Jackson at Neverland in 1993 the train station didn't exist, yet she had seen Leaving Neverland at least twice and knew Jimmy's story of abuse ended in 1992, so she must have known this it impossible for them to have sex there.
 

Toni

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Interesting theory on why Oprah has deleted all the clips of the film from her YT channel. When Oprah filmed her interview with Jackson at Neverland in 1993 the train station didn't exist, yet she had seen Leaving Neverland at least twice and knew Jimmy's story of abuse ended in 1992, so she must have known this it impossible for them to have sex there.



Oprah has been ga-ga for decades anyway...​
 
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pete lashmar

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Thanks, that was a very interesting read. I hadn't even thought of all those impersonators.
And just like the Miami Showband story, the music tends to prevail. Music has no identity, it belongs to everyone - why would we want to ban a part of ourselves?
Also, let's not forget that the ones who are exposed as being criminal or evil are the ones who got caught.
We like to think that we know our favourite artists, but we don't. Not trying to create a doom scenario here, I'm just saying that evil is random.

I could even see the advantage of the Evil Celebrity impersonator: people can enjoy the same show performed by the innocent version.
 

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I'm a D.J in the Algarve (Portugal) and tonight we had a hen party that wanted Jackson played, we were quite quiet at the time and I put 1 track on, suddenly we were full, everyone dancing, moonwalking etc - Leaving Neverland has had no effect on the music, we had a fantastic night.
And the Thriller Live musical in London's West End recently announced another long extension to its run taking it into 2020. It continues to do strong business showing there is still is strong demand for Michael Jackson's music.

https://www.broadwayworld.com/westend/article/THRILLER-LIVE-Extends-West-End-Run-20190402
 

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It continues to do strong business showing there is still is strong demand for Michael Jackson's music.
Was it ever in any doubt? His Number Ones album shot right up into the top 30 the week following the airing of the documentary.

What he did was a crime (to those who believe he did it) but his music is loved globally and I doubt anything would ever change that.
 
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