#metoo

[Ome]

I have never actually met a feminist woman who hates men, or a feminist woman who thinks women are better than men.

I have never actually met a man who has raped and abused a woman, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

Just because you haven't personally met a feminist woman who hates men, or a feminist woman who thinks women are better than men doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Emelee]

And by the way...
It's not fun to recieve dickpics from strangers. It's disgusting as heck.
It's not fun to get friend requests on social media from men who have seen your profile picture and sends a friend request even though they don't know who you are.
It's not fun when you get a message on Messenger from strange men writing "hello, beautiful -- want to chat?"
It's not fun when teenage boys take pictures of your ass.
It's not fun when teenage boys "accidentally" walks too close to they "accidentally" touch your ass or boobs.
It's not fun when men asks if I want some c*ck inside me.
It's not fun to be groped by a stranger when your out at a club having fun.
It's not fun being called "an ugly wh*re who needs to get raped" when you turn down someone on social media or Messenger.

These are things that women has to deal with. Some men too, I'm sure, but seriously not as much as women - young women in particular.

 

[Emelee]

I have never actually met a man who has raped and abused a woman, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

Just because you haven't personally met a feminist woman who hates men, or a feminist woman who thinks women are better than men doesn't mean they don't exist.

Being a woman who hates men kinda disqualifies her from calling herself feminist. It's utter bullshit to claim you are a feminist, but hating men in general. But I suppose these women who do this have been subjected to sexual harrassment enough, and can't see straight.

 

[Ome]

Who on earth can read such statistics and still feel that feminism is evil?

Because almost every cause, every group, has extremists and this brings down that cause, that group and it will continue, just as extremists will continue to terrorise other cultures.

Every single person who isn't a rapist, who isn't a sexual predator, who isn't a groping harrassing person needs to talk about these issues - be open about there being a massive problem, and fight it.

I am one of these people you describe, so tell me what you want me to do? Speak with my parents? Speak with my wife & daughter, write to my MP? They already know what goes on, they already know evil people exist.

 

[Ome]

It's not fun to get friend requests on social media from men who have seen your profile picture and sends a friend request even though they don't know who you are.

I get this from women regularly

It's not fun when you get a message on Messenger from strange men writing "hello, beautiful -- want to chat?"

I receive at least 5 emails a day from women asking me if I want to F them.

It's not fun when teenage boys take pictures of your ass.

What about when girls do this to boys?

It's not fun when men asks if I want some c*ck inside me.

What kind of places do you go to?

It's not fun to be groped by a stranger when your out at a club having fun.

I've been groped by women in nightclubs and pubs.

It's not fun being called "an ugly wh*re who needs to get raped" when you turn down someone on social media or Messenger.

The Internet is rife with trolls whose aim is to upset others.

 

[Ome]

Being a woman who hates men kinda disqualifies her from calling herself feminist.

Tell that to the many women out there who claim to be feminists and continue to despise men, blame men for everything.

But I suppose these women who do this have been subjected to sexual harrassment enough, and can't see straight.

Oh, you found an excuse for this type of behaviour, I guess it's okay then. you know, because they can't see straight.

 

[Emelee]

Because almost every cause, every group, has extremists and this brings down that cause, that group and it will continue, just as extremists will continue to terrorise other cultures.

I am one of these people you describe, so tell me what you want me to do? Speak with my parents? Speak with my wife & daughter, write to my MP? They already know what goes on, they already know evil people exist.

Ome, please don't compare feminism or terrorism in any sentence.

And what you should do, as a decent human, is to stand up to someone when you hear them say something nasty. Say "that is so wrong" or something like that. Never stay silent and let it slide. If a friend of yours makes a crude remark, speak up. If you see someone at the pub being an a-hole and no one seems to bother, then you bother.
That is: never let someone get away with it. Never laugh at a crude joke. Write that you object when you see someone say something really bad on social media.

And yes, as a parent, you tell your children what is right and what is wrong. Preferably when they are still children and under your care. Parents need to tell their sons to respect all girls and women (and other boys) - and they they are there for them if they need to talk, or be hard on them if they misbehave. Parents need to tell their daughters to treat boys and girls with respect and that they will always be there for them, but correct them when they screw up.


So no, you don't have to write a letter to the PM or only discuss things with your own family. You need to look at what happens around you and step in when you see or hear something bad. And if you haven't ever seen or heard something, I bet that you haven't seen or listened close enough.

 

[Ome]

For the record, I'm not against your ideology of an equal world, I'm all for it. I just get the vibe from you that you think most men who don't speak out do so because they condone it.

How many countries are there where Men rule over all?

 

[Emelee]

Tell that to the many women out there who claim to be feminists and continue to despise men, blame men for everything.


Oh, you found an excuse for this type of behaviour, I guess it's okay then. you know, because they can't see straight.

I do tell them off. I get annoyed when I hear girls or women talk down on men in general. Problem is; I don't hear it very often. It's 90% the other way around.

 

[Emelee]

For the record, I'm not against your ideology of an equal world, I'm all for it. I just get the vibe from you that you think most men who don't speak out do so because they condone it.

That's the thing - if you refuse to speak up, you are silently condoning it. It's why it continues to happen. Hollywood is full with people who have silently condoned Harvey Weinstein's behavior for 30 years. It wasn't until now that someone sang out the truth.

It's just like when you see a person knocking over a senior citizen on the street to pass them by or rob them, you don't look on and stay silent. You DO something, even though it didn't happen to you.

 

[Ome]

Ome, please don't compare feminism or terrorism in any sentence.

I'm talking about every group, every cause is likely to have extremists. Are you saying that not one female who thinks she's a feminist doesn't want to harm a male?

And what you should do, as a decent human, is to stand up to someone when you hear them say something nasty. Say "that is so wrong" or something like that.

But what happens when I don't see this happening?

My circle of friends are not in the habit of behaving in the way you are suggesting.

Never stay silent and let it slide. If a friend of yours makes a crude remark, speak up. If you see someone at the pub being an a-hole and no one seems to bother, then you bother.

Again...


My circle of friends are not in the habit of behaving in the way you are suggesting.

Never laugh at a crude joke.

I don't and I find watching some old shows to be quite shocking in how we viewed and accepted this behaviour as a form of entertainment.

Write that you object when you see someone say something really bad on social media.

But I only ever communicate on Soap Chat.

And yes, as a parent, you tell your children what is right and what is wrong.

I'm very happy and proud of the way I raised my daughter.

Parents need to tell their sons to respect all girls and women (and other boys) - and they they are there for them if they need to talk, or be hard on them if they misbehave.

Children can be cruel and yes that's partly down to the parents, but it's all a part of growing up and learning about how to respect too.

Parents need to tell their daughters to treat boys and girls with respect and that they will always be there for them, but correct them when they screw up.

Yet in many countries, the parents raise their children to be of the thought that man is more powerful than woman. It happens.

So no, you don't have to write a letter to the PM or only discuss things with your own family. You need to look at what happens around you and step in when you see or hear something bad.

But what happens when that drunk pulls a knife out? Or what if the women who appear to be mistreated turns around and tells me to F off?

I bet that you haven't seen or listened close enough.

Seriously? You think that?

 

[Ome]

That's the thing - if you refuse to speak up, you are silently condoning it.

We've just discussed this part and for the record just because I don't speak up when I have not seen or heard anyone being abused doesn't mean I condone the behaviour.

Hollywood is full with people who have silently condoned Harvey Weinstein's behavior for 30 years. It wasn't until now that someone sang out the truth.

Have you heard about Operation Yewtree ? This thing in Hollywood isn't breaking news

It's just like when you see a person knocking over a senior citizen on the street to pass them by or rob them, you don't look on and stay silent. You DO something, even though it didn't happen to you.

For the record, I've never witnessed anything like this.

That doesn't mean I condone it.

 

[Emelee]

I get this from women regularly

I receive at least 5 emails a day from women asking me if I want to F them.

What about when girls do this to boys?

What kind of places do you go to?

I've been groped by women in nightclubs and pubs.

The Internet is rife with trolls whose aim is to upset others.

And all of those things should never ever have happened. I am really sad to hear that you have been subjected to these things too. Horrible, isn't it? It's embarrassing, de-powerering and insulting all in one.

Still know that if it happens to 1 in 10 men, then it happens to 6 in 10 women. There is a massive inequality. The numbers should be 0 in 10 for all.

For every time it happens, there is a guilty person. So if it happens to 1 in 10 men, then 1 of 10 women are sexual abusers. And 6 of 10 men are sexual abusers.

Women of the world are pissed off by this inequality. And on top of that, men are physically stronger than women, which means they tend to get the upper hand.

As Lena Headey (Cercei, Game of Thrones) said about her horrific encounter with Harvey Weinstein "I felt powerless".
https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...lly-harassed-harvey-weinstein-game-of-thrones

Just one of many stories of female actors being forced to either have sex with or strip in front of a producer/director.

It's also the reason why women has to be naked on screen far more than men has too. Which is dumb. Women are way more objectified.
http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/news/a45185/game-of-thrones-emilia-clarke-male-nudity-penis/

 

[Emelee]

But what happens when that drunk pulls a knife out? Or what if the women who appear to be mistreated turns around and tells me to F off?

You take the chance anyway. You can't know unless you actually find out. People are too scared of butting in when they see something bad happening. If the guy in the pub actually does have a knife, then he is still out-numbered by you and the rest of the people at that pub. If you're scared, have someone walk up to this person with you.

Good for you and your friends to be sane level-headed people. But really, if you listened a little more, I think you would hear something that would give you a clue that something isn't right with a person. Maybe you don't like to eavesdrop, but you learn a whole lot if you do.

 

[Emelee]

And now I am completely dried out talking about sexual abuse and harrassment. I have said pretty much all I have to say on the topic in this thread.
As I work as a teacher with both Swedish teens and refugee teens, I deal with many of these issues (sexual harrassment and racism) at work. Sometimes one just needs a break and go off into La La Land and pretend all is well in the world. Pretend it's sunny and warm. Shut my brain down, or I will just walk around being too upset over things I cannot change by myself.

Today I cried about the new stricter migration suggestions made by politicians in Sweden. I feel so bad for those of my pupils who is going through hell here because so many people wants them gone, or feel it's best that they are moved.
I hate coming to work and see these poor teenagers look sad or are tired because they cannot sleep at night.

Humans can absolutely be the worst kind of scum. I hope they will feel utterly ashamed of themselves in the years to come over the decisions and actions they took now.

 

[Ome]

And now I am completely dried out talking about sexual abuse and harrassment.

It's certainly been an interesting topic to discuss and while I don't always agree with some of your thoughts on the subject, I'm grateful for your contributions.

No one is going to always see eye to eye on issues like this, but it's always fascinating and educational to debate about.

 

[Willie Oleson]

And that is what I mean when I say that men has a responsibility here, no matter if they are rapists or appalled by rapists. Social structures are still having us unequal, and only a change in social structions can help

You have some strong points regarding hierarchy, and it's even worse in non-Western countries. Just give those women the salary they deserve I'd say.
But evil creatures, the rapists and murderers, don't care about your money and position.
They do evil things because they can, they don't need a reason, let alone an excuse.
And because they look like normal people ("he was such a friendly neighbour!") we don't know if or when it's going to happen.

There are laws to protect us, unfortunately they don't really protect us. In most cases it means that the person who harmed you will be punished. After the damage has been done.
They know the consequences, and they do it anyway.
And now it's up to us - the "normal men", as it were - to stop this? Like, going from door to door, and talk to other men why they shouldn't rape (just in case they have toyed with the idea)?
I haven't read anything *concrete* regarding the men vs. men issue. What am I supposed to do?

And how does this all intertwine with the #metoo campaign?

I'm going to tell you something very unpleasant: most people will fight for their own causes - and it's usually enough for a lifetime.
Black people are not interested in gay rights (unless that black person happens to be gay), and gay people are very busy fighting their own battles.
I know it's not the ideal situation, but that's how it is.
And if you feel there's a cause to fight for, then do it, go for it, all the way (as long as it doesn't become too political correct, i.e. nitpicking about trivial stuff that has nothing to do with you).

If you witness a fight or any kind of abuse, report it. I, for one, am not going to stop them because I don't know the context of the fight and I certainly don't want to become the other victim.
Although I think most people have an instinct when there are children involved. Then it has to stop immediately, regardless of the risk.

I wish you good luck with your plans and everything else you want to achieve.

#itwasn'tme

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

@Emelee , your responses to us always have nothing to do with what we're actually saying. Like you've got this list of feminist talking points and that's all you're prepared to answer with. So that requires us to be saying boorish things we're not acting saying.

That said, all necessary social movements eventually become evil to extend their relevance. They have to.

Ome, please don't compare feminism or terrorism in any sentence.

Any number of radical feminist websites have stated plans, silly as it sounds, to bring the male population down to under 5% of the population. Not that you're "one of those" because I'm sure you're not.

I get annoyed when I hear girls or women talk down on men in general. Problem is; I don't hear it very often. It's 90% the other way around.

Then you're obviously so biased it renders you deaf. Women don't routinely talk down to men? You "don't hear it very often" because it's far more socially acceptable.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Being a woman who hates men kinda disqualifies her from calling herself feminist. It's utter bullshit to claim you are a feminist, but hating men in general.

Heh. You're quite prone to dispensing theory, but that's got nothing to do with what goes on in the real world. In fact many feminists admit to hating men point blank.

Not that I mind very much, but your idealism has little to do with anything.

The other problem with third wave feminists is their constant demand that men prioritize their issues. We must conform to think, act, and talk how they tell us too. We must condemn sexual assault against women. We must stop objectifying women. We must never hit a woman. As if women are the only people on Earth capable of being victimized. And truth be told, many feminists are dismissive of male victims because they're not a part of their demographic. The particularly nasty ones even mockingly drink from cups that say "male tears."

It's long deteriotated into: "Mama says......Mama says....Mama says....Mama says...." masquerading as women's rights.

As Karen Straughan has also said, "feminism and old school chivalry have been on the down low from the very beginning."

I'm not sure it's really from the very beginning, but it's certainly the case today.

 

[Frank Underwood]

The rant against feminism amongst men is horrible, and it's horrible because they don't even understand feminism. I have never actually met a feminist woman who hates men, or a feminist woman who thinks women are better than men. Where are these people in real life???

I've only skimmed the rest of the thread because it's clear what direction it's going in. You're going to continue to be "sickened and appalled" and find our "rants against feminism horrible" because you're not interested in the substance of what we're saying. No one on this thread is siding against victims of sexual abuse. What we're calling out are the feminists who speak down to men, treat them like they're all potential rapists or rape enablers, expect men to conform to their way of thinking, and yet trivialize abuse against men and boys.

And as for "not understanding feminism," we understand the movement's original purpose was equality for both genders. However, we've made it clear countless times that our anger is solely with modern day third wave feminism, which is more interested in condescending and controlling men than it is equal rights. And as for "where are these people in real life," that's been spelled out many times as well. Are the women of The View, Buzzfeed, Cosmopolitan, etc. not representative of women in "real life?" There's no name vloggers who express the same opinion. And FYI, there are women who also rant against third wave feminism because they recognize it's just anti-male bullshit.

It's pretty telling when people who don't want anybody controlling or talking down to them spend their time doing those things to other people.