Neil Young and Joni Mitchell leave Spotify over Joe Rogan

[Richard Channing]

Spotify has just removed 71 episodes of The Joe Rogan Experience.

 

[darkshadows38]

really? i'm surprised on that to be honest

 

[DallasFanForever]

I’m not surprised in the least to be honest. There’s no reason I can think of for using that word or any other slur. It’s totally uncalled for. I’m all for removing the episodes in this case.

 

[darkshadows38]

as am i i only am surprised cause they don't always do that i also didn't give any thought about either since i don't listen to it either

 

[Angela Channing]

I’m not surprised in the least to be honest. There’s no reason I can think of for using that word or any other slur. It’s totally uncalled for. I’m all for removing the episodes in this case.

I agree. I also think doubling down to defend using the word is only seeing things from a personal perspective rather than the hurt it can cause a large number of people.

 

[Frank Underwood]

I don't consider Rogan's response to be a "doubling down" defense of his use of the N word. He was explaining his thought process at the time and the context in which he used the word. However, he made it clear he's no longer comfortable saying it. He said he "f*cked up" and that discussing his past remarks was "the most regretful and shameful thing I've ever had to talk about publicly." I believe Rogan sincerely regrets using the N word, and he doesn't strike me as someone who is trying to intentionally hurt people.

I also believe that people who try to ban the use of certain words under any circumstance inadvertently give that word more power than it deserves.

For those who think people that say the N word regardless of the context are racist, I wonder if you now believe President Biden is a "nasty piece of work" for this:

 

[Angela Channing]

The first time I heard someone use the term "the N word" instead of saying n*gger was Johnny Cochran during the OJ Simpson trial. Up until then, when people were quoting someone else they would just say the word. It made me think why Mr Cochran chose not to say it in full because had he done so he would have been driving home to the jury just how horrible the word is in modern society and times have moved on. That's when I realised that the word was so offensive and has such a hated history that it's wrong to say it in any context because of the hurt it can cause. It now widely considered to be unacceptable to say the word in full and when someone does, people rightly question whether it was necessary.

My understanding is that Mr Rogan was using the term quite recently so why did he make that choice other than to be controversial and to offend people? Would Mr Rogan be happy is someone called one of his daughters a b*tch? What if someone called her a c*nt would he think that was acceptable? As for comparing Africa to The Planet of The Apes by saying it was a joke. Well, jokes can be racist, jokes can hurt too.

If you use the term once today, it's easier to accept that you may have made a mistake, if you use it repeatedly over the course of several years it's harder to accept that you weren't deliberately trying to offend and it says a lot about the kind of person you are.

Also, defending someone's right to refer to black people as n*ggers says a lot about your values too.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

It's interesting about that word -- it's horrible, to be sure. But there are other words that carry the identical racist meaning but not the power.

I think it's the phonetics of it.. A two-syllable word with a hard double-consonant in the middle and a short vowel "i" or "u" just has a guttural effect which intensifies it.

Like, speaking of guttural, the term "gutter bitch" is more impactful than just "bitch."

 

[Frank Underwood]

The first time I heard someone use the term "the N word" instead of saying n*gger was Johnny Cochran during the OJ Simpson trial. Up until then, when people were quoting someone else they would just say the word. It made me think why Mr Cochran chose not to say it in full because had he done so he would have been driving home to the jury just how horrible the word is in modern society and times have moved on. That's when I realised that the word was so offensive and has such a hated history that it's wrong to say it in any context because of the hurt it can cause. It now widely considered to be unacceptable to say the word in full and when someone does, people rightly question whether it was necessary.

My understanding is that Mr Rogan was using the term quite recently so why did he make that choice other than to be controversial and to offend people? Would Mr Rogan be happy is someone called one of his daughters a b*tch? What if someone called her a c*nt would he think that was acceptable? As for comparing Africa to The Planet of The Apes by saying it was a joke. Well, jokes can be racist, jokes can hurt too.

If you use the term once today, it's easier to accept that you may have made a mistake, if you use it repeatedly over the course of several years it's harder to accept that you weren't deliberately trying to offend and it says a lot about the kind of person you are.

That's a strawman argument. Rogan didn't actually call anybody the N word.

Although I choose to refer to the "N word" whenever I'm discussing it, I get why not everybody softens it. For example, a person quoting a racist or teaching someone the historical and hateful impact of that word might say it in that context to drive home just how ugly it is. I understand others feel differently about it being used at all, though.

IMO, the worst thing Rogan said was that Planet of the Apes joke. Years ago, black and white comics would often get together and roast each other. Many of the jokes said by both sides were racially charged. However, it was obvious that was their way of taking the piss out of racism since they were all in on the joke. In contrast, Rogan appeared to make a racist joke for the hell of it. Comics are constantly trying to cross the line of what's acceptable comedy, and they sometimes go too far. I'm glad Rogan apologized for it.

Also, defending someone's right to refer to black people as n*ggers says a lot about your values too.

And creating strawman arguments says a lot about your values. I never said anybody had the right to call black people the N word. Discussing the historical connotation of the N word, as well as its usage in comedy, television, film, music, and print isn't racist in my opinion. I'm personally not comfortable with using the word myself, but I do believe the intent behind it should still matter. Rogan seemed genuinely upset and apologetic that his remarks hurt others to me. If other people don't believe he's being sincere, so be it.

Anyhow, I'm glad the people who think saying the N word under any circumstance is racist now have video proof of President Biden saying it. That still applies, right?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

EDIT: I've seen three videos just since this morning where Rogan supporters make references to or analogies about him being shot -- which I kind of wish they wouldn't.

 

[Angela Channing]

Although I choose to refer to the "N word" whenever I'm discussing it, I get why not everybody softens it. For example, a person quoting a racist or teaching someone the historical and hateful impact of that word might say it in that context to drive home just how ugly it is.

I have some sympathy with this which was why I said I was initially surprised when Johnny Cochran said "N word" in the OJ trial instead of using the word in full. I think today almost everyone is familiar with the term "N word" and find that shocking enough so the need to say the word in full is not necessary. When people choose to say "n*gger" they are making a conscious decision to offend.

IMO, the worst thing Rogan said was that Planet of the Apes joke. Years ago, black and white comics would often get together and roast each other. Many of the jokes said by both sides were racially charged. However, it was obvious that was their way of taking the piss out of racism since they were all in on the joke. In contrast, Rogan appeared to make a racist joke for the hell of it. Comics are constantly trying to cross the line of what's acceptable comedy, and they sometimes go too far. I'm glad Rogan apologized for it.

The Planet of The Apes comment was only about 10 years ago. How someone could think it was an acceptable joke that recently is beyond me. I thought (and hoped) this kind of racist stuff was left behind in the 1980s.

With Mr Rogan it's not just one incident, it's the pattern over a period of time until quite recently. It's not just the racist comments, it's the misogyny and transphobia too. But hey, let's defend all that because we agree with his stance on vaccines.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

But hey, let's defend all that because we agree with his stance on vaccines.

But do we agree with his stance on vaccines? Is it about agreement?

 

[Frank Underwood]

With Mr Rogan it's not just one incident, it's the pattern over a period of time until quite recently. It's not just the racist comments, it's the misogyny and transphobia too.

Comics often push the envelop and say edgy things for comedic effect. Exaggeration and stereotypes are often involved as well. Some people end up taking it literally and get offended. I haven't followed much of Rogan's comedy, and I can't speak to everything he's said on his podcasts, but I've watched enough to know he's considerably left leaning.

In the video Snarky posted, Rogan said "I'm very pro choice. I'm very women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, trans rights... He also supported Bernie Sanders. So there's that.

But hey, let's defend all that because we agree with his stance on vaccines.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on Rogan's vaccine stance. I simply respect him for his intellectual curiosity and willingness to interview various medical experts.

Thank you Neil Young and Joni Mitchell for drawing attention to the dangers of his podcast and making us realise what he is really like

But hey, let's ignore Neil Young's a homophobe who ranted about the fear of catching AIDS from "a f—ggot" because he agrees with your stance on Joe Rogan.

 

[Frank Underwood]

 

[Angela Channing]

But hey, let's ignore Neil Young's a homophobe who ranted about the fear of catching AIDS from "a f—ggot" because he agrees with your stance on Joe Rogan.

I think those comments are disgusting and I wouldn't want to defend them, in fact I would condemn anyone who said that. Because I agree with one thing someone says, doesn't mean I feel compelled to defend everything they say regardless of how disgusting it is.

 

[Frank Underwood]

I think those comments are disgusting and I wouldn't want to defend them, in fact I would condemn anyone who said that. Because I agree with one thing someone says, doesn't mean I feel compelled to defend everything they say regardless of how disgusting it is.

Had Rogan actually called someone the N word, I would have condemned him for it as well (I also agreed that the Planet of the Apes joke was in bad taste.)

I would have preferred that Rogan hadn't used the N word at all, but I also believe context matters.

Are teachers racist for having their students read HuckleBerry Finn? Are artists racist for using the N word in their lyrics? Does historical and cultural context matter?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Because I agree with one thing someone says, doesn't mean I feel compelled to defend everything they say regardless of how disgusting it is.

Precisely.

And, for the record once again, Rogan isn't anti-vaxx -- he just discusses alternative treatments openly, which seems reasonable enough since the medical and media "authorities" keep contradicting themselves on Covid constantly.

 

[Frank Underwood]

 

[Frank Underwood]

 

[DallasFanForever]

I thought (and hoped) this kind of racist stuff was left behind in the 1980s

Sadly it wasn’t. I’m amazed at some of the people I know that are my age that still harbor racist thoughts and opinions. I don’t think it will ever end. The hardest part for me is when they try to use their convoluted logic to justify these beliefs. It’s sad to see.