Now that you know, do you still accept Jacqueline as Richard's mother during a rewatch?

[Richard Denault]

It's not a problem for me. It's a bit like when someone is adopted and they find their birth mother and they effectively have 2 mothers.

Jacqueline wasn't much of a mother to Richard which makes it even easier to accept Angela as his mum. I liked how they didn't immediately make Angela all maternal and warmly disposed towards her son when she found out which made it more believable.

Please no!

I liked how they didn't immediately make Angela all maternal and warmly??
Angela never hugged him or kissed him. Richard did hug her happily when they rescued Lance.
And he kissed her affectionately when he congratulated her on Christmas.
This photo is from 702 Obsession, possession
We never saw Richard and hugged Angela again. I love Emma's face. Margaret loved David very much.

 

[Willie Oleson]

for me the plot twist doesn't feel like a retcon at all, particularly since much of it was played around with by the creator from the very beginning.

But I didn't know that when I watched it in the 1980s. Heck I didn't know it until you mentioned it in your post.
I still think that Douglas' motive to give away his own son is questionable at best and downright nonsensical at worst. And it's also not explained why Jacqueline would feel that kind of intense hatred for her sister-in-law.

 

[Willie Oleson]

WE NEVER SAW ANGELA GIVE HER SON A KISS

Yes yes yes we already know that.

 

[TJP]

But I didn't know that when I watched it in the 1980s. Heck I didn't know it until you mentioned it in your post.
I still think that Douglas' motive to give away his own son is questionable at best and downright nonsensical at worst. And it's also not explained why Jacqueline would feel that kind of intense hatred for her sister-in-law.

Back then, I didn't know the storyline development either, but it didn't bother me at all. I always thought we were given enough on-screen hostility between Jacqueline and Angela in the first two seasons to know that Jacqueline was a very evil and heartless woman, particularly with everything that transpired when we learnt that she was the secret head of the cartel and a Nazi collaborator. Jacqueline's claim to be Richard's mother was never convincing to me because which mother would sell her son to a Gestapo-related man along her way to make money out of war crimes? From that perspective, I always thought it was much more plausible that Jacqueline just claimed to be Richard's mother in order to awake his instincts for a familial bond and keep him from being a danger to Chase (whom she really cared for).

I am aware of a convincing on-screen explanation for Douglas' motive, and I regret that they didn't give us one (besides what we can conclude from between the lines). I wished they had at least kept the scene in the attic (even with the wrong portrait of Douglas), but even that scene wouldn't have given us a detailed explanation. I know the writers discussed presenting the information from Douglas' letter, but — like in all episodes — they had to make choices to stay in the one-hour program frame and decided to drop it because they felt that most viewers wouldn't care for complex explanations and rather accept the shocking plot twist without dwelling too much on the past.

 

[tommie]

Honestly, I wouldn't have minded more Angela / Richard bounding scenes pre-reveal because Jaqueline was such a Mother Monster trope. It would've been nice to see Richard having some stablising influence in his life, even if he sought out to destroy it. That just makes it more complicated and soapy.

 

[Richard Denault]

But I didn't know that when I watched it in the 1980s. Heck I didn't know it until you mentioned it in your post.
I still think that Douglas' motive to give away his own son is questionable at best and downright nonsensical at worst. And it's also not explained why Jacqueline would feel that kind of intense hatred for her sister-in-law.

Jaquelinne has an affair with Douglas. He had money and Angela married him to save Falcon Crest from ruin.
Chase had already been born and was the male grandson who could inherit the Falcon Crest.
With Richard dead, the adventure with Douglas could continue and the heir would be Chase.
Jaquelinne goes to Europe, Richard is born there. And she makes Douglas believe that he is her son.
It's not because of hate, it's because of calculation.

 

[Richard Denault]

Sí, sí, eso ya lo sabemos.:sombrero:

Sí, pero Angela Channing comentó que
¡¡¡Me gustó cómo no hicieron que Ángela fuera inmediatamente maternal y cálidamente dispuesta hacia su hijo!!!!!!!!
El problema es que Angela nunca fue maternal con Richard, terminó la escena del sofá al final del séptimo episodio.

ricardo
¿No estás intentando decir que me amas, madre?
ÁNGEL
Yo no iría tan lejos, (sincero de todo corazón)
Pero admitimos que casi disfruto la forma en que ingresas a Falcon Crest.
Ella le pone la mano. Richard está tremendamente conmovido. Para él, esta es la culminación de toda una vida de deseo inconsciente.

Aunque no estaba en el guión, Richard está sentado lejos de ella, en un rincón del sofá con un vaso en la mano. En su escena, ni siquiera la tocan cuando Richard le entrega el vaso.
Jane-Angela no era muy cariñosa pero con Richard siempre se mostraba muy distante. Ni siquiera en la foto promocional le puede coger del brazo a David.

Wikipedia define el personaje.
la indomable Ángela, una mujer no lo pensaría dos veces antes de APuñalar a SUS PROPIOS HIJOS, NIETOS, SOBRINOS Y SOBRINOS por la espalda si eso significaba mantener el control del legado de su abuelo.
No es para mantener su legado. Chase era más adecuada que Lance.
Angela para mantener su poder y Jane su papel de ESTRELLA de la serie.

 

[Richard Denault]

Y aún así... me pregunto si algunas de las escenas de Jacqueline tienen más sentido si crees que está mintiendo.
Se sorprendió cuando descubrió que Richard había venido al Valle y que el problema se centraba principalmente en sus preocupaciones por Chase y su familia, pero tal vez no como parecía.
No importa cuánto había tratado de mantener separados a los primos, tal vez era mejor "reunirlos como hermanos" que que Chase descubrió que le había robado el bebé a Angela y le haría creer que Richard había muerto.
Como "madre" de Richard, todavía podía controlar de alguna manera la narrativa. Y como Douglas estaba muerto y ella misma se estaba muriendo, nadie se enteraría jamás.

Me pregunto dónde encontró a Peter esa carta. Probablemente en la chimenea, que es donde se guardan a salvo todos los documentos secretos de SoapLand, esperando ser descubiertos y causar estragos en tramas futuras.

Aunque Lana era una estrella caprichosa. Ella y David se llevaban de maravilla.

David comentó que estaba Lana Turner y que la hija de Lana era maravillosa porque yo también amaba a Lana .
Ella autografió sus memorias para la madre de David. En 2023 David todavía has el libro.
La hija de Lana, después de la muerte de Lana, le dijo que su madre también lo amaba.
Ambos lucen muy felices cuando comen juntos.
Aquí está toda su historia.

 

[tommie]

Yes, but is Jaqueline a lesbian in love with Angela?

 

[Richard Denault]

Me pregunto dónde encontró Peter esa carta.

Angela y Richard funcionaron muy bien como enemigos.
Al parecer, David estaba aburrido de la serie y quería dejarla al final del séptimo.

El titular dice Estoy aburrido de ser Richard Channing
Si no hubiera resucitado.
Maggie habría tenido una nueva pareja. El senador Ryder asistiría al funeral de Richard.
Maggie y Angela habrían peleado por Falcon Crest y por la custodia de Michael
A David le ofrecieron más dinero y regresó a la serie.
If la carta de Douglas was falsa. David, pensando que Ángela era cómplice de la falsificación, quisiera vengarse y acabar internandolo en un manicomio.

 

[Willie Oleson]

I always thought we were given enough on-screen hostility between Jacqueline and Angela in the first two seasons to know that Jacqueline was a very evil and heartless woman

I'd need to rewatch it for the third time, but I'm not sure if on-screen Jacqueline was ever truly established as a villain, but more like a woman who had made some bad decisions and now had to face the fact that her two sons (believing to be cousins) had become enemies.
Let's not forget that Angela still had the power to blackmail Jacqueline, the kind of blackmail that really shouldn't impress the head of a powerful Nazi-originated cartel.
Most of the aggressive attitude seems to come from Richard and Angela, not Jacqueline.
As with Julia as the killer I don't think it was planned ahead that Jacqueline was going to be the Cartel's Number One. It was a fabulous reveal and yes it did describe Jacqueline as a power-hungry woman (like her former sister-in-law) but two minutes later Richard started to threaten Chase and his family - and suddenly Jacqueline's power meant nothing anymore.
Unless, as Richard suggested, she would have him killed.

Sure, everything about Richard's upbringing was wrong, but the story is also very much about "the enemy of my enemy" and since I was rooting for Chase - and certainly not for Richard who had already proven to be a dangerous and ruthless man - Jacqueline ended up in the "good camp" by default.
Ironically, her (grand)maternal instincts had always been stronger than Angela's.

With Richard dead, the adventure with Douglas could continue and the heir would be Chase

A male heir was not required, Angela herself was the proof of that. Besides, Chase would only inherit the part of his father. As he did.
Still, a resourceful woman like Jacqueline could have made it work somehow but since she didn't I'm not sure she was ever all that interested in Falcon Crest.

I think the best part about the Cartel is how it was intertwined with the Carlo Agretti murder mystery.

 

[TJP]

I'd need to rewatch it for the third time, but I'm not sure if on-screen Jacqueline was ever truly established as a villain, but more like a woman who had made some bad decisions and now had to face the fact that her two sons (believing to be cousins) had become enemies.
Let's not forget that Angela still had the power to blackmail Jacqueline, the kind of blackmail that really shouldn't impress the head of a powerful Nazi-originated cartel.
Most of the aggressive attitude seems to come from Richard and Angela, not Jacqueline.
As with Julia as the killer I don't think it was planned ahead that Jacqueline was going to be the Cartel's Number One. It was a fabulous reveal and yes it did describe Jacqueline as a power-hungry woman (like her former sister-in-law) but two minutes later Richard started to threaten Chase and his family - and suddenly Jacqueline's power meant nothing anymore.
Unless, as Richard suggested, she would have him killed.

Sure, everything about Richard's upbringing was wrong, but the story is also very much about "the enemy of my enemy" and since I was rooting for Chase - and certainly not for Richard who had already proven to be a dangerous and ruthless man - Jacqueline ended up in the "good camp" by default.
Ironically, her (grand)maternal instincts had always been stronger than Angela's.


A male heir was not required, Angela herself was the proof of that. Besides, Chase would only inherit the part of his father. As he did.
Still, a resourceful woman like Jacqueline could have made it work somehow but since she didn't I'm not sure she was ever all that interested in Falcon Crest.

I think the best part about the Cartel is how it was intertwined with the Carlo Agretti murder mystery.

You have some really good points here.

Most of Jacqueline's evilness transpired on screen after hear death, including her involvement with the Nazis during WW II. During season 2, the most horrendous revelation about her shady character was that she sold Richard to Henri, as Angela revealed in her blackmail scheme, forcing Jacqueline to leave the valley. Whether Richard was Jacqueline's biological son or not, it was a most disgusting thing to do with an innocent child, handing him over to a Nazi collaborator to gain money and power. I always thought no (biological) mother in her right mind would even think about something like that, which made the season 6 revelation really plausible for me. Angie's blackmail scheme certainly didn't affect Jacqueline the way Angela had thought (not knowing that Jacqueline was the head of an international cartel that never refrained from criminal activities), but Jacqueline's real motivation for giving in was that she didn't want Chase to learn about what she did to Richard, particularly not after she had just made them believe they were brothers.

But anyway, you are right with your assumption that it was only during season 2 that the writers came up with the idea of making Jacqueline the head of the cartel. That was not part of the bible, and in my interview with Steve & Henry, they said that it was their idea to utilize Jacqueline as the cartel's secret number one while the season was in progress. That development occurred around the time when "Pas de Deux" went into the writing stage.

I agree with your thoughts on the cartel storyline being interwoven with Carlo's murder. Although it was just a misleading hint pointing in Richard's direction as Carlo's murderer, it was great that Carlo investigated Richard's past, which was both mentioned in dialog early in the season and later addressed in more detail when Angie spoke to Sister Marie-Thérèse in France.
I also thought that the other misleading element was great — so many characters wearing cardigans and sweaters like the one we saw on the arms of Agretti's murderer / murderess, keeping us guessing who of them might have done it.

 

[Willie Oleson]

I always thought no (biological) mother in her right mind would even think about something like that,

An adoption in order to support one's career isn't that unusual, it's the circumstances and the people involved that makes it so unsavoury.
And an ex-Nazi isn't necessarily a bad parent.
It was her and Douglas' child and I guess she wasn't going to keep the baby anyway even if she hadn't gone to Europe. Furthermore, she didn't abandon him entirely as she could watch him from a distance, as it were. Although that also proves how cold-blooded she could be, to know everything about her child and not being able to contact him.

Angela's children were living with her, but with the constant threat of disinheritment she created a prison and they all turned against each other.
That's not much better than what Jacqueline did.

I don't remember, where was Chase when his mother was busy building her Empire of Evil? Did he know that his mother was pregnant?

 

[TJP]

I don't remember, where was Chase when his mother was busy building her Empire of Evil? Did he know that his mother was pregnant?

Chase was partly living with Jason in the Tuscany Valley at the time. We also learnt from Michael that Chase temporarily stayed with them (i.e. Michael's mother's family; Michael's mother was Jacqueline's sister), both in Baltimore and in their summer house in the Hamptons on Long Island.

 

[Richard Denault]

Chase vivía parcialmente con Jason en el Valle de la Toscana en ese momento. También supimos por Michael que Chase se quedó temporalmente con ellos (es decir, la familia de la madre de Michael; la madre de Michael era la hermana de Jacqueline), tanto en Baltimore como en su casa de verano en los Hamptons en Long Island.

Madre de Michael Ramson

 

[Matthew Blaisdel]

Man, could you please stop posting in spanish here all the time, this is getting really annoying!

 

[Richard Denault]

Man, could you please stop posting in spanish here all the time, this is getting really annoying!

Dr. Michael Ranson (Cliff Robertson), His mother was sister Jacqueline
Robert Foxworth wanted to leave the series in the third season
Michael was thought to be Maggie's new partner?
Anual Golden Globe Awards January 28 de 1984

 

[Richard Denault]

I am aware of a convincing on-screen explanation for Douglas' motive, and I regret that they didn't give us one (besides what we can conclude from between the lines). I wished they had at least kept the scene in the attic (even with the wrong portrait of Douglas), but even that scene wouldn't have given us a detailed explanation. I know the writers discussed presenting the information from Douglas' letter, but — like in all episodes — they had to make choices to stay in the one-hour program frame and decided to drop it because they felt that most viewers wouldn't care for complex explanations and rather accept the shocking plot twist without dwelling too much on the past.

ATTIC DA Y
As Angela stands before a portrait of a man, dimly seen.
ANGELA
You stole my baby My first-born. My son» And you made hím my enemy. Is Hell so dull you needed amuse yourself by torturing me?
She punches the portrait
The scene was not cut. A problem in the laboratory spoiled the sequence

We never saw Angela break or throw anything in anger. Stabbing Douglas' portrait doesn't seem like her
The phrase about Douglas could have been added to Father Bob's dialogue that was written at the last minute

www.falconcrest.org | Deutscher FALCON CREST - Fanclub / German FALCON CREST Fan Club

falconcrest.org

Angela
I have a son who I thought was dead at birth How can I love something I lost and I Hate the man he has become
Father Bob
How it started that hatred
Angela
it doesn't matter why. I don't know what I should feel now
Angela
I don't know what I should feel now
Father Bob
I don't know what you should feel either feel more what you should do is repress that and learn to love
Angela
Maybe one day Thank you friend for taking your time

 

[Richard Denault]

Aunque Lana era una estrella caprichosa. Ella y David se llevaban de maravilla.
View attachment 49307
David comentó que estaba Lana Turner y que la hija de Lana era maravillosa porque yo también amaba a Lana .
Ella autografió sus memorias para la madre de David. En 2023 David todavía has el libro.
La hija de Lana, después de la muerte de Lana, le dijo que su madre también lo amaba.
Ambos lucen muy felices cuando comen juntos.
Aquí está toda su historia.

Sorry, when I edit with my mobile. The message is in Spanish
Although Lana was a capricious star. She and David got along wonderfully.
David commented that Lana Turner was there and that Lana's daughter was wonderful because I loved Lana too.
She autographed her memoir for David's mother. In 2023 David still has the book.
Lana's daughter, after Lana's death, told him that her mother loved him too.
They both look very happy when they eat together.

 

[Richard Denault]

A male heir was not required, Angela herself was the proof of that. Besides, Chase would only inherit the part of his father. As he did.
Still, a resourceful woman like Jacqueline could have made it work somehow but since she didn't I'm not sure she was ever all that interested in Falcon Crest.

1-05 Tony Comes Home
LANCE
I know something else you can't change, no matter how many lies you tell my mother.
TONY
I haven’t lied to anyone.
LANCE
I’m the heir to Falcon Crest, not her.
TONY
I KNEW THAT THE DAY YOU WERE BORN. YOUR GRANDMOTHER ALWAYS MADE IT VERY CLEAR WHAT SHE REALLY WANTED WAS A MALE HEIR.