They're eating the cats! They're eating the dogs!

[KayLloyd]

1. JD Vance doesn't appear to support any exceptions to a total abortion ban. Trump wants states to have the right to force rape and incest victims to continue with their pregnancies. They claim to support individual freedoms but apparently that's not the case when it comes to women and their bodies.

2. The allegations against Kevin Spacey were tested in court in both the USA and in the UK and in both cases he was exhonorated. By contrast, the allegations against Trump were upheld in court and the Judge said E Jean Carroll's claim that Trump raped her is "substantially true". Trump also admitted to being a sexual predator on the Access Hollywood recording. Trump is a proven rapist and as such should be nowhere near The White House and to hear Republicans defend his depravity while claiming they believe in law and order is nauseating.

1. The majority of Americans do not support a national abortion ban, it's not going to happen.

2. You mean the judge who was appointed by sexual predator Bill Clinton? And the "victim' who has admitted that part of her legal expenses were funded by Reid Hoffman, who is a donor to the DNC? Give me a break. Trump made no such admission on Access Hollywood, that's a lie and you know it. It was locker room talk that the host Billy Bush encouraged and was fired for. The boys in my high school engaged in locker room talk too, they bragged about lots of things that never happened.

 

[Laurie!]

1. The majority of Americans do not support a national abortion ban, it's not going to happen.

2. You mean the judge who was appointed by sexual predator Bill Clinton? And the "victim' who has admitted that part of her legal expenses were funded by Reid Hoffman, who is a donor to the DNC? Give me a break. Trump made no such admission on Access Hollywood, that's a lie and you know it. It was locker room talk that the host Billy Bush encouraged and was fired for. The boys in my high school engaged in locker room talk too, they bragged about lots of things that never happened.

1. What the majority of Americans want doesn't matter with the electoral college (nor in Canada with our system for the same balance purpose as electoral college). You cannot guarantee it's not going to happen. The majority of Americans don’t believe a President should have immunity from criminal prosecution either but the Supreme Court thought otherwise. By the way, the majority of Americans don't nominate the SC judges either. If they did, they'd all be liberal.

2. It's reprehensible for you, a woman to regurgitate that "locker room talk" excuse to defend Trump. He did indeed admit that he "grabs them by the pussy" which is sexual assault. Access Hollywood did the right thing and fired Billy Bush in response. The electoral college system made Trump President in response.

High school boys in the locker room say things like, "she has beautiful tits" or "I'd love a piece of her". If they confess to actually grabbing her vagina, they've confessed to assault. Don't make excuses for sexual assault and take the power of a woman's body away from the woman!!!!

 

[Laurie!]

I'll speak for myself instead of you speaking for me, thank you. My belief has always been that abortions should be rare, only done in cases of rape, incest, and risks to the mother's health. I do believe in a woman's choice for her own body,, but that choice needs to be made before the point of viability outside of the mother's body, which ranges from the earliest and lowest chance at 22 weeks to a much higher chance at 28 weeks. I also believe that the less involvement that the federal government has in our lives, the better off we are.

No mother is aborting a fetus/baby once it would be viable to live outside the womb. That's a lie being used to fear monger. When a woman carries a baby that long, they want the baby or decided to give birth for adoption.
They would only induce delivery or have a c-section because the baby's health requires a procedure that can only be done outside the womb, the mother's health is at risk or it's a stillborn child that needs to be removed.
Most liberals don't want women to have or need an abortion. It just has to remain an option. You can't pick a term point of the pregnancy and say, nope, sorry you're s.o.l. because you're past that date. The local/state government which chose that timeframe then has the authority to decide if you meet the requirements of what they decided may or may not be an "exception".

It seems like if you truly want less government interference now, you don't want a Republican. They want to be in your bedroom, your abdomen and want women barefoot and pregnant, unable to vote.

 

[Laurie!]

As for the claim that Harris "helped bail out criminals who burned down a city," I couldn't find any evidence to suggest she did this directly. However, she did encourage people to donate to the non-profit Minnesota Freedom Fund, “to help post bail for those protesting on the ground in Minnesota” after the death of George Floyd. So there's that.

It seems she was as involved in protestors being bailed out as Trump was in Jan. 6th.

That's what my research discovered as well. She tweeted for people to support the MFF. That non profit organization provides bail money to people who couldn't post it otherwise. Which sadly, is often black Americans and one of the reasons they're disproportionately imprisoned pending trial and often, more likely to be convicted. Which was a very relevant cause to promote during those protests.
Supporting a bail fund, doesn't mean people don't face the consequences of an alleged crime if they receive that financial assistance. It means they were able to post bail for the same crime a more wealthy individual would also be able to post bail for. They still need to go to trial, plead guilty, or have the charges later dropped and possibly be convicted. If it were crimes that were so severe, their release would endanger others, they're denied bail.

There's no comparison to Trump inciting the J6 rioters to head to the Capitol. He knew it was going to be violent.

 

[Angela Channing]

1. The majority of Americans do not support a national abortion ban, it's not going to happen.

2. You mean the judge who was appointed by sexual predator Bill Clinton? And the "victim' who has admitted that part of her legal expenses were funded by Reid Hoffman, who is a donor to the DNC? Give me a break. Trump made no such admission on Access Hollywood, that's a lie and you know it. It was locker room talk that the host Billy Bush encouraged and was fired for. The boys in my high school engaged in locker room talk too, they bragged about lots of things that never happened.

The majority of Americans supported Roe vs Wade but that didn't stop Trump and his right wing zealots from ignoring them to restrict a women's right to choose.

Regarding Access Hollywood: Trump said "you know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful... I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything.. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything." That a clear admission that he's a sexual predator.

Trump was not a high school teenager when he said these vile things, he was a grown adult. I've been in many locker rooms and I've never heard anyone boast about sexually assaulting a woman. This is not normal and no one should pretend that it is. Stop minimising sexual violence against women. This is the danger of Trump, he normalises horrendous criminal acts which would be condemned if anyone else perpetrated them.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Some of Trump's biggest critics minimize the sexual assault allegations against Bill Clinton and Joe Biden. They normalize war criminals and encourage people to vote for them. They like to call this a "false equivalence," when the truth is they're partisans who hold the other side to a different standard. It's the same thing they accuse MAGA of doing.

They claim to care about women's rights, but they only hold Trump accountable. How soon they forget Obama told Planned Parenthood in 2007 that signing Roe v. Wade into law would be "the first thing I'd do as president." Fast forward to April 2009, when the recently inaugurated Obama said abortion rights "is not the highest legislative priority."

Source: Barack Obama Blasted for Not Codifying Roe v. Wade: 'Dem Failure' - Newsweek

 

[Angela Channing]

Some of Trump's biggest critics minimize the sexual assault allegations against Bill Clinton and Joe Biden. They normalize war criminals and encourage people to vote for them. They like to call this a "false equivalence," when the truth is they're partisans who hold the other side to a different standard. It's the same thing they accuse MAGA of doing.

They claim to care about women's rights, but they only hold Trump accountable. How soon they forget Obama told Planned Parenthood in 2007 that signing Roe v. Wade into law would be "the first thing I'd do as president." Fast forward to April 2009, when the recently inaugurated Obama said abortion rights "is not the highest legislative priority."

Source: Barack Obama Blasted for Not Codifying Roe v. Wade: 'Dem Failure' - Newsweek

Seeing as you've quoted me, I'm assuming you mean me when you say "some of Trump's biggest critics". I've never minimised sexual assault allegations but I do make the distinction between allegations and conduct that has been tested and upheld in a court of law. Of all the men you mentioned, Trump is the only one that a court has ruled allegations of sexual misconduct (in his case, rape) are "substantially true".

You seem to have widened your deflections from the misdemeanours of Donald Trump from screaming WHAT ABOUT BIDEN? to screaming WHAT ABOUT CLINTON? and WHAT ABOUT OBAMA? These people are yesterday's men and are not running for President, as much as Republicans might wish they were. So I will continue to bring the discussion back to the relevant question which is WHAT ABOUT TRUMP? as there is still a very real chance that he could get elected. Trump is a rapist and that alone should make him unfit to be the next President of the USA.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Seeing as you've quoted me, I'm assuming you mean me when you say "some of Trump's biggest critics". I've never minimised sexual assault allegations but I do make the distinction between allegations and conduct that has been tested and upheld in a court of law. Of all the men you mentioned, Trump is the only one that a court has ruled allegations of sexual misconduct (in his case, rape) are "substantially true".

I can't speak for you specifically, but I know plenty of people who judge Trump based on allegations alone. This also applies to people in Trump's circle. When Trump's Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh was accused of sexual assault, Democrat loyalists believed her. In contrast, those same Dems smeared Biden's accuser and called her a liar.

Even Ashley Biden's claim that her dad showered with her was largely swept under the rug. Yet when Trump said he'd date Ivanka if she wasn't his daughter, it made headlines.

You seem to have widened your deflections from the misdemeanours of Donald Trump from screaming WHAT ABOUT BIDEN? to screaming WHAT ABOUT CLINTON? and WHAT ABOUT OBAMA? These people are yesterday's men and are not running for President, as much as Republicans might wish they were. So I will continue to bring the discussion back to the relevant question which is WHAT ABOUT TRUMP? as there is still a very real chance that he could get elected. Trump is a rapist and that alone should make him unfit to be the next President of the USA.

It's not a deflection to point out that partisans have double standards. Many anti-Trump folks helped put "yesterday's men" into office, despite their own sketchy behavior.

Obama whined about Roe v. Wade being overturned, even though he could have resolved it years ago. Why does he get a pass, while Trump gets all the blame?

IMO, nothing makes a person more unfit to be President than being a war monger. Voting Democrat to "counter Trump" certainly won't end crimes against humanity.

 

[KayLloyd]

Seeing as you've quoted me, I'm assuming you mean me when you say "some of Trump's biggest critics". I've never minimised sexual assault allegations but I do make the distinction between allegations and conduct that has been tested and upheld in a court of law. Of all the men you mentioned, Trump is the only one that a court has ruled allegations of sexual misconduct (in his case, rape) are "substantially true".

You seem to have widened your deflections from the misdemeanours of Donald Trump from screaming WHAT ABOUT BIDEN? to screaming WHAT ABOUT CLINTON? and WHAT ABOUT OBAMA? These people are yesterday's men and are not running for President, as much as Republicans might wish they were. So I will continue to bring the discussion back to the relevant question which is WHAT ABOUT TRUMP? as there is still a very real chance that he could get elected. Trump is a rapist and that alone should make him unfit to be the next President of the USA.

Seeing as you've quoted me, I'm assuming you mean me when you say "some of Trump's biggest critics". I've never minimised sexual assault allegations but I do make the distinction between allegations and conduct that has been tested and upheld in a court of law. Of all the men you mentioned, Trump is the only one that a court has ruled allegations of sexual misconduct (in his case, rape) are "substantially true".

You seem to have widened your deflections from the misdemeanours of Donald Trump from screaming WHAT ABOUT BIDEN? to screaming WHAT ABOUT CLINTON? and WHAT ABOUT OBAMA? These people are yesterday's men and are not running for President, as much as Republicans might wish they were. So I will continue to bring the discussion back to the relevant question which is WHAT ABOUT TRUMP? as there is still a very real chance that he could get elected. Trump is a rapist and that alone should make him unfit to be the next President of the USA.

The only reason that the sexual assault allegations against Slick Willy Clinton weren't "tested and upheld in a court of law" was victim intimidation by Hillary. Just because a sexual assault isn't "upheld in a court of law", it doesn't mean that it didn't happen and the accused isn't a sexual predator. And had Monica Lewinsky not followed the wise advice to keep her infamous blue dress, Slick Willy would have been believed instead of her. John Kennedy held orgies with his brothers Bobby and Ted where they passed girls around to each other. Do you think that all of those girls were totally willing participants and he was unfit to be President?

 

[KayLloyd]

No mother is aborting a fetus/baby once it would be viable to live outside the womb. That's a lie being used to fear monger. When a woman carries a baby that long, they want the baby or decided to give birth for adoption.
They would only induce delivery or have a c-section because the baby's health requires a procedure that can only be done outside the womb, the mother's health is at risk or it's a stillborn child that needs to be removed.
Most liberals don't want women to have or need an abortion. It just has to remain an option. You can't pick a term point of the pregnancy and say, nope, sorry you're s.o.l. because you're past that date. The local/state government which chose that timeframe then has the authority to decide if you meet the requirements of what they decided may or may not be an "exception".

It seems like if you truly want less government interference now, you don't want a Republican. They want to be in your bedroom, your abdomen and want women barefoot and pregnant, unable to vote.

Lol, if most liberals don't want women to have abortions, then why do they want taxpayers to pay for them?

 

[CeeCee72]

Lol, if most liberals don't want women to have abortions, then why do they want taxpayers to pay for them?

There are instances when tax should be used for abortions. Women and children who are on Medicaid who are raped, victims of incest, who are carrying unviable fetuses, or who would have their health put at risk by carrying to term should have Medicaid cover the cost of the procedure.

 

[Angela Channing]

The only reason that the sexual assault allegations against Slick Willy Clinton weren't "tested and upheld in a court of law" was victim intimidation by Hillary. Just because a sexual assault isn't "upheld in a court of law", it doesn't mean that it didn't happen and the accused isn't a sexual predator. And had Monica Lewinsky not followed the wise advice to keep her infamous blue dress, Slick Willy would have been believed instead of her. John Kennedy held orgies with his brothers Bobby and Ted where they passed girls around to each other. Do you think that all of those girls were totally willing participants and he was unfit to be President?

But you don't accept a court concluding Trump is a rapist.

 

[KayLloyd]

But you don't accept a court concluding Trump is a rapist.

A conclusion by a judge who was appointed by sexual predator Clinton and a victim who admitted that part of her legal expenses were paid by a donor to the DNC is highly suspect and unconvincing to me.

 

[Angela Channing]

A conclusion by a judge who was appointed by sexual predator Clinton and a victim who admitted that part of her legal expenses were paid by a donor to the DNC is highly suspect and unconvincing to me.

What you mean is you accept the law when you agree with the outcome and claim it's rigged when you don't. This is the Trump playbook and this chilling selective approach to the legal system is what the USA can expect if Trump is re-elected and why America needs to wake up and vote against the racist, rapist, fraudulent orange ex-President.

 

[KayLloyd]

What you mean is you accept the law when you agree with the outcome and claim it's rigged when you don't. This is the Trump playbook and this chilling selective approach to the legal system is what the USA can expect if Trump is re-elected and why America needs to wake up and vote against the racist, rapist, fraudulent orange ex-President.

No, that is not what I mean at all, stop putting words in my mouth. I don't find the women who made the accusations against Bill Cosby credible either.

 

[Frank Underwood]

The "Trump playbook?" The Dems invented Russia-gate in order to claim that Trump was an illegitimate president, and that he conspired with Putin to steal the election from Hillary Clinton. When that turned out to be false, they impeached him for withholding military aid to Ukraine. In contrast, the Dems refused to impeach George W. Bush for war crimes. Nancy Pelosi said they didn't want to "hurt the country" after Clinton's impeachment, but the truth is they didn't impeach Bush because they were also complicit.

As for Trump's rape conviction, the hypocrisy and double standards are on display yet again. I don't know if Trump's guilty of rape or not, but there were some obvious conflicts of interest. If Bill Clinton or Joe Biden were found guilty by a Trump-appointed judge, and an RNC donor paid some of the legal expenses, the reaction would be quite different.

Trump's unprecedented conviction over "falsified business records" is also interesting. Before Trump, there was an understanding that former presidents were above the law. That's why war criminal ex-presidents roam free. And yet with Trump, they were looking for any minutia to hang him on. He may very well be guilty of the charges, but that was never the point. Their goal was to keep him from returning to the presidency, and the way they went about it demonstrates a "chilling selective approach to the legal system." When the Dems say that Trump will "weaponize the legal system against his political opponents," they're guilty of projection. After all, that's exactly what they've done to him.

But yes, I don't want to vote for a "racist, accused rapist, fraudulent" person for president. That's why I voted for the Green Party over Trump and Biden in 2020. America needs to "wake up" and realize both major parties cater to the wealthy and the military industrial complex. Harris speaks in platitudes, but the same failed policies will continue on.

 

[Laurie!]

@Frank Underwood do you truly in your gut believe that Trump isn't beholden to Putin? He has something on Trump and that's why Trump cowers to him. All of those social media right wing loons have now been caught for being financially sponsored by Russia to spew their talking points too.
BTW, they didn't impeach Trump for withholding military aid. What I understand is Trump was impeached for blackmailing Zelensky....holding the receiving of that aid over Zelensky's head in exchange for finding dirt on Joe and Hunter Biden. That is an impeachable offense.

If you want to talk about corrupt judges, let's talk about the woman judge in Florida (too lazy to look up her name) who was appointed to her position by Trump. How is she able to be the judge on the classified documents case? In a free, normal world, she'd be forced to recuse herself from the case because she owes her job to Trump and most likely couldn't truly be impartial.

What I don't understand about the US is why you all register for a political party?? Here, I can donate to whatever political party I want but I've never had to check a box for what party I'm likely to vote for.

When I turned 18, I checked a box on my income tax return for elections Canada to use my name and address to mail me an election card whenever there's an election. I then receive that card in the mail, take it to the assigned polling station, show my ID and then "x" the spot on the ballot, drop it in the box and done.

Nobody can look up my name and know what political party I favour. If I walked into a courtroom I'd have no idea what political party the judge represents, etc. The only way I know my neighbour's political affiliation (unless it came up in conversation) is if they have yard signs up before an election. Y'all down there are just weird and divisive lol.

 

[Frank Underwood]

@Frank Underwood do you truly in your gut believe that Trump isn't beholden to Putin? He has something on Trump and that's why Trump cowers to him. All of those social media right wing loons have now been caught for being financially sponsored by Russia to spew their talking points too.

I was only speaking to the claim that Trump colluded with Putin to steal the 2016 election. According to the Mueller Report, the investigation "did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities." That's not to say there weren't shady dealings going on, as Trump campaign officials lied and obstructed justice when it came to meetings they had with Russian officials. Russian troll farms also put their finger on the scale by creating pro-Trump memes. Trump welcomed Russia's meddling because he's corrupt, but the Mueller Report revealed they couldn't prove that Trump colluded with Putin to interfere.

Trump is often erratic and contradictory. As I pointed out in the "Harris Gains Support from neocons" thread, Trump also took adverse actions against Russia.

BTW, they didn't impeach Trump for withholding military aid. What I understand is Trump was impeached for blackmailing Zelensky....holding the receiving of that aid over Zelensky's head in exchange for finding dirt on Joe and Hunter Biden. That is an impeachable offense.

Yes, but my point still stands. George W. Bush was guilty of war crimes, which are far more egregious. He was only let off the hook because Dems were also complicit in them.

But speaking of Zelensky, the Democrats appear beholden to him and Bibi Netanyahu with all of the billions they send them. If only they'd invest that money here instead!

If you want to talk about corrupt judges, let's talk about the woman judge in Florida (too lazy to look up her name) who was appointed to her position by Trump. How is she able to be the judge on the classified documents case? In a free, normal world, she'd be forced to recuse herself from the case because she owes her job to Trump and most likely couldn't truly be impartial.

Absolutely. Trump and his judicial picks are corrupt, but my point is that corruption isn't exclusive to MAGA Republicans.

What I don't understand about the US is why you all register for a political party?? Here, I can donate to whatever political party I want but I've never had to check a box for what party I'm likely to vote for.

When I turned 18, I checked a box on my income tax return for elections Canada to use my name and address to mail me an election card whenever there's an election. I then receive that card in the mail, take it to the assigned polling station, show my ID and then "x" the spot on the ballot, drop it in the box and done.

Nobody can look up my name and know what political party I favour. If I walked into a courtroom I'd have no idea what political party the judge represents, etc. The only way I know my neighbour's political affiliation (unless it came up in conversation) is if they have yard signs up before an election. Y'all down there are just weird and divisive lol.

Unfortunately, you have to be registered for a political party in order to vote in most states' primaries. They don't want "outsiders" having a say in choosing their candidate.

Of course, Our political system is awful by design. It's meant to keep control in the hands of two corrupt parties. We only have the illusion of choice, as the differences between Democrats and Republicans are ultimately superficial. They want people fighting the culture wars so that they can continue serving their rich donors and the military industrial complex unimpeded. A fairer system would be to have ranked choice voting, but Dems and Republicans will never allow that to happen. They've got to protect their monopoly.

 

[Laurie!]

I don't support any wars for the most part. I think we all needed to stop Hitler so that's an exception. In the same vein, I want Ukraine to "win" so Putin is stopped. I don't understand though, why we put on a facade that stopping militarily is the only way to stop the war.
If the U.S. and allies wanted, Putin and Putin alone could be killed at any moment. We all know we have the capability. They're just afraid of the inevitable retaliation where U.S./allied leadership would be killed. In other words, that leadership (same as the Bush's), prefer thousands of other innocent people dying instead of themselves.
Russia and a bunch of Russian sponsored talking heads (Tucker for one) are also to blame for supporting those moron trucker convoys here during covid too. As though they had any credibility at all saying they were fighting for our freedom when they were allowed to shut down busy streets for a month. They frolicked in their portable hot tubs, bouncy castles, entertainment stages in the streets, etc. But hey, they're so oppressed by the Trudeau government...SMH.

 

[Frank Underwood]

I don't support any wars for the most part. I think we all needed to stop Hitler so that's an exception. In the same vein, I want Ukraine to "win" so Putin is stopped. I don't understand though, why we put on a facade that stopping militarily is the only way to stop the war.
If the U.S. and allies wanted, Putin and Putin alone could be killed at any moment. We all know we have the capability. They're just afraid of the inevitable retaliation where U.S./allied leadership would be killed. In other words, that leadership (same as the Bush's), prefer thousands of other innocent people dying instead of themselves.

The US and NATO helped provoke Putin's war with Ukraine. Maniacs like Adam Schiff wanted this proxy war "So we can fight them over there instead of fighting them here."

Unfortunately, war is a profitable racket, and Russia is an implacable enemy.

Russia and a bunch of Russian sponsored talking heads (Tucker for one) are also to blame for supporting those moron trucker convoys here during covid too. As though they had any credibility at all saying they were fighting for our freedom when they were allowed to shut down busy streets for a month. They frolicked in their portable hot tubs, bouncy castles, entertainment stages in the streets, etc. But hey, they're so oppressed by the Trudeau government...SMH.

My knowledge of the Canadian trucker protests is limited. However, I was under the impression they were fighting for bodily autonomy and had their bank accounts frozen. I wasn't aware that their protests involved shutting down busy streets. Climate activists do this too, and it's dangerous. It also works to undermine an otherwise noble cause.