TNT Amplifying Negative Traits And Diminishing Positive Traits

[J. R.'s Piece]

Here CC made her gravest error. Cousins are distant relatives who you ignore after numerous disagreements. It didn't really work with jack/Jamie either.

John Ross vs. Christopher didn't really work without Jr (still being there) VS. Bobby. They didn't even bother to include Sue Ellen into the mix, she was the only blood relative of Christopher.
If you want strong family rivalries you need brother vs. brother. You could have put John Ross vs. one of his brothers (or if necessary his sister (mother Katherine of course like posted here by so many of us).
The other logical pairing would have been Christopher vs Lucas (along Bobby vs. Ray).

I get what you are saying. I wouldn’t however call forms of first cousin (consanguineous or adoptive) distant. If you are talking autosomal DNA match, first cousins share some of the same grandparents and as a 1 in 8 (12.5%) match with each most recent common they can be as closely related as a great-grandchild/great-grandparent/half-uncle/half aunt/great-uncle/great-aunt. Third degree relatives. As closely related in terms of autosomal DNA average match, as Lucy and Ray.

 

[Justine]

Now, here we get into a tricky area involving the old show whitewashing people -- JR and Sue Ellen and Jock. So the newer show may have been more realistic about their flaws and the aftermath of their behavior.

TNT was more realistic about their flaws to a certain extent but they pushed the boundary of truth, in my opinion. I have no doubt John Ross was poorly affected by J.R. and Sue Ellen's behaviours but Sue Ellen didn't "hide" John Ross away in school, like he remarked in the pilot episode.

On the other hand, I did like that the writers were more realistic about the childhood of someone with an alcoholic parent - in Dallas, it almost seemed as if John Ross was oblivious to Sue Ellen's addiction (until the comment from him when Sue Ellen returned home to find Miss Ellie drunk) but in reality children are more intuitive than the adults realise, so TNT Dallas wrote that well.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Now, here we get into a tricky area involving the old show whitewashing people -- JR and Sue Ellen and Jock.

Could you tell me what "whitewashing" the characters means?

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Could you tell me what "whitewashing" the characters means?

Pretending they're decent deep down.

 

[Frankenstein Underworld]

They should write a book about it; 50 ways to hate TNT Dallas

Or 50 ways to make a snarky comment about people hating TNT Dallas.

 

[Werewillie Oleson]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll contact my agent a.s.a.p.

 

[Sea - Boo! - Er]

That said, it's Cliff Barnes whose character was turned into a monster in nuDALLAS. And without explanation. If they'd simply rationalized why he'd now become homicidal, even towards his own daughter and grandchildren (e.g., fibromyalgicluminecence dun gawn to his brain) then it would have been okay.

That pretty much sums up most of what was wrong. They could have done almost anything they wanted if they'd only explained how they got from there to here.

 

[A Nightmare on Jimmy Todd Street]

That pretty much sums up most of what was wrong. They could have done almost anything they wanted if they'd only explained how they got from there to here.

Agreed. I really wanted Sue Ellen, Bobby, or even JR to say that Cliff might be many things but he's not a homicidal maniac. A scene where Sue Ellen visits him in jail wanting to know what happened to hin because she's so shocked would have been continuity gold.

 

[Rove]

As I've said before, JR's masterpiece, and oldPam's death revelations -- both in late-Season 2 -- were the best things nuDALLAS ever did.

Looking back it was like witnessing the collision of universes. Just as we had to deal with the death of JR we're about to learn the fate of Pam.

 

[tommie]

Looking back it was like witnessing the collision of universes. Just as we had to deal with the death of JR we're about to learn the fate of Pam.

Honestly, it felt weirdly right to learn about Pam's death at the same time as JRs. They were pretty much two of the most important characters that Dallas had, so closing the book on both of them at the same time just seemed proper to me.

 

[stevew]

There were some decent moments in Dallas TNT but a clear direction was never recognizable.

In its first season with many characters (Pamela, Bobby, Ann...) having dark secrets it always seemed highly influenced by Desperate housewives in my opinion, along with numerous actors appearing in DH. DH ended in May and Tnt Dallas seemed to be designed to appeal some of DH's audience.

Season 3 of Dallas TNT seemed to be scripted to profit from Breaking Bad's huge success at that time.

Imo - Dallas was a saga. The fight for Ewing Oil and Southfork should always continue, but still the Ewings are a family uniting against outsiders.

Here CC made her gravest error. Cousins are distant relatives who you ignore after numerous disagreements. It didn't really work with jack/Jamie either.

John Ross vs. Christopher didn't really work without Jr (still being there) VS. Bobby. They didn't even bother to include Sue Ellen into the mix, she was the only blood relative of Christopher.
If you want strong family rivalries you need brother vs. brother. You could have put John Ross vs. one of his brothers (or if necessary his sister (mother Katherine of course like posted here by so many of us).
The other logical pairing would have been Christopher vs Lucas (along Bobby vs. Ray)

Even on the Barnes side (we had such lovely multidimensional relationship between old cliff and old Pam) what about new pamela vs. another Barnes offspring?

Too many characters? No - get rid of the Ryland (multiple episode arc more than sufficient) and especially the Ramos. Then there is plenty of space.

I agree with much of this. The family was too fractured to begin with, this cousin, this uncle. They didn’t work to establish anything. On the original it was mom, dad and their boys and their boys wives. They could have worked to establish that here. As JR was still in the home, it could have been Bobby was more a father to John Ross all these years and with Chris being the “bad guy” he could be torn between supporting Chris and doing right by John Ross with Chris claiming ironically that he’s the real son and John Ross is nothing. They could have choose such a path, making them more like brothers. Then enter Elena, easily explained as Teresa’s daughter or niece, making her more like family in the way the Barnes’s were like family. They had Pamela. And add Lucas - the real son of Bobby’s with Chris giving him the Gary treatment. It was there, they just wanted to cram down our throats their version.

 

[stevew]

I totally agree with you in both points. I wanted to see Bobby have a catharsis in which he totally let everything out about Pamela- his frustration and anger at her leaving the way she did, and, most of all, his love for her. There was a point where, of I'm remembering correctly, where he kept referring to her as "Christopher's mother," in front of Sue Ellen. I wanted Sue Ellen to correct him and say, "Pam. Her nane is Pam." An argument between them would have ensued where they both broke down and cried. Sue Ellen never mourned Pam, which has always bothered me.

Regarding Katherine, I wanted her to be alive and using Pam's identity. I also wanted her behind Pam's original disappearance in the first place.:eck:

Well put.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Then enter Elena, easily explained as Teresa’s daughter or niece, making her more like family in the way the Barnes’s were like family.

If you think about the TNT show from the perspective of the people who made Dallas what it was in its best years, do you think any of them would have even considered, for a minute, to someday make a Dallas continuation with the focus of it placed on Teresa's family?

Whether they use the name Carmen or Theresa, I can't think of a more inconsequential character on Dallas.

 

[xab]

You know, I never had a problem with that. I mean, his first wife left him 30 years ago and his second wife was murdered in front of him. Is it odd that Bobby's a bit jaded? His "I mourned Pam a long time ago" doesn't also necessarily mean it's fully true - people often say things they want to be true and I would fully believe that it would be a front that someone like Bobby would put up against the world. Although, maybe they should've given him a "Miss Ellie in the kitchen" moment to clarify that.

I genuinely have no real issue with how they handled Pam mostly because it was something that the original show completely screwed up. The only thing I would change is that I would've had Katherine being the one who had hijacked Pam's identity, but that falls more under "missed opportunity", doesn't it?

Yes Katherine stealing Pam's identity for 20 years would have been a great twist for us fans. But it was obvious by the time that Cidre wanted to cut all ties with the original. Clayton was ignored, as much as were so many characters who vanished into thin air ( Donna, Lucas, Jenna, James, etc. Whether you liked them or not, they did exist.). Bringing Katherine back would have meant bringing the past back. And Cidre made it clear this door was shut and locked... The closure of Pam's cold case couldn't lead to something hot. It had to stay cold I guess. Ashes to ashes. No phoenix. We wanted to know what ever happened to Pam. She gave us this one. Period. No less no more. The " I mourned Pam a long time ago" line tells it all...

 

[stevew]

Agreed. I really wanted Sue Ellen, Bobby, or even JR to say that Cliff might be many things but he's not a homicidal maniac. A scene where Sue Ellen visits him in jail wanting to know what happened to hin because she's so shocked would have been continuity gold.

Exactly. He could have told her he knew John Ross was his. She could have looked at him like he’s nuts. He could pledge is love to her and promise he’ll make it all right. He could crack up about those baby’s he though were John Ross’s. Cry over it, but swear “it” was the right thing to do.

 

[stevew]

If you think about the TNT show from the perspective of the people who made Dallas what it was in its best years, do you think any of them would have even considered, for a minute, to someday make a Dallas continuation with the focus of it placed on Teresa's family?

Whether they use the name Carmen or Theresa, I can't think of a more inconsequential character on Dallas.

No I don’t think they would have, no would they gave worried about a tie in for the character. But this wasn’t them and they didn’t have the back story we now have. And while neither you or me liked the character, I’ve read many did. So, I’d say not a bad character just poorly executed.

 

[tommie]

Yes Katherine stealing Pam's identity for 20 years would have been a great twist for us fans. .

Hell, they could've even used Katherine as an explaination as to why Cliff had turned out so evil - Katherine, under the guise of being Pam, had been in contact with him for years via e-mail and other forms of communication, using the excuse as to why they couldn't meet was because she was "so disfigured" after the crash and the treatments for the cancer. PamKatherine could've put a lot of crazy ideas into Cliff's head that way as we know she's both insane and good with manipulating people. It would also explain why Cliff thinks Katherine is dead and so on.

 

[Rove]

Katherine stealing Pam's identity for 20 years would have been a great twist for us fans.

And for a brief moment it looked like TNT Dallas was about o deliver us that wickedly delicious Katherine Wentworth....

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[A Nightmare on Jimmy Todd Street]

And for a brief moment it looked like TNT Dallas was about o deliver us that wickedly delicious Katherine Wentworth....

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I imagine a scene where that woman in the hat is in a room, seated with her back to the viewers.
Bobby walks in, looks at her in shock, and then says, "I knew you couldn't be dead." Cut to a commercial. When the show returns the camera pans to the woman's face and we see it's the blue-eyed, syringe wielding Katherine!