Was Victoria Principal right to speak out

[Kenny Coyote]

Just out of curiosity, when Cliff is told by Jordan Lee that he saw Pam it's in the last episode of season 10 - does anyone know if this was done with the idea to approach VP to return or just a tease for the quick appearance of Margaret Michaels?

She had already begun pursuing a movie career, then hadn't she? She left Dallas to become a movie star while she was still young enough to have a good opportunity to do it. So I doubt it was done with the idea to approach VP to return but maybe someone else here has more details on that.

 

[pete lashmar]

She had already begun pursuing a movie career, then hadn't she? She left Dallas to become a movie star while she was still young enough to have a good opportunity to do it. So I doubt it was done with the idea to approach VP to return but maybe someone else here has more details on that.

Thanks. It would be interesting to know, I know she was asked back for the final episode, which we all know she agreed to "IF" it was the final ever episode and therefore she didn't return because they couldn't make that promise.

ANOTHER QUESTION...If she had returned for the final episode would writers have created a different end to the show instead of the "Wonderful Life" garbage?

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Thanks. It would be interesting to know, I know she was asked back for the final episode, which we all know she agreed to "IF" it was the final ever episode and therefore she didn't return because they couldn't make that promise.

ANOTHER QUESTION...If she had returned for the final episode would writers have created a different end to the show instead of the "Wonderful Life" garbage?

I know she was asked back for the final episode, but there's something I don't remember...maybe someone here knows. I thought when they were filming their last season they knew they were being cancelled. But if that were true, then they would have been able to promise it was the final episode, wouldn't they? So why didn't she do that one last episode?

Regarding "ANOTHER QUESTION" - I don't know for sure, but I'd like to think so! VP returning would have opened up a lot of new possibilities for the last season, wouldn't it?

If it were up to you, what would you have liked for them to do in a final episode with VP?

 

[pete lashmar]

I know she was asked back for the final episode, but there's something I don't remember...maybe someone here knows. I thought when they were filming their last season they knew they were being cancelled. But if that were true, then they would have been able to promise it was the final episode, wouldn't they? So why didn't she do that one last episode?

Regarding "ANOTHER QUESTION" - I don't know for sure, but I'd like to think so! VP returning would have opened up a lot of new possibilities for the last season, wouldn't it?

If it were up to you, what would you have liked for them to do in a final episode with VP?

I have always said that my final ever scene on Dallas would have been a complete relica of the very first one - Bobby & Pam driving....but this time away from Dallas.

 

[Rove]

but she doesn't own the rights to the character. Dallas and TNT Dallas both had the right to recast Pam.

There is no dispute Victoria did not own the character. However, after playing the role for 10 years and taking into account how huge the series was everyone identifies Victoria in the role. A re-watch of Lorimar Dallas shows even the producers stuffed up the character by having her survive such a horrific fire. I mean come on, no one would have survived it. But it seems the producers held onto the vain hope Victoria would change her mind during the off season, she didn't.

As Lorimar Dallas shuffled along the producers felt they had to deal with the issue of Pam, an issue of their own making. Katherine suddenly appears and adds nothing of value. Pam disappears only to resurface played by Margaret Michaels. This time we bid another farewell to the character because she only had a few months to live.....her words, not mine.

....and that was the end of it. That was until TNT Dallas decided to resurrect the much loved character to stimulate interest. As Cynthia says...

Cidre: People have to do what they have to do for themselves, but for those people who read it, I regret it kind of ruined our story for them. But it's all good. We're happy to have put that to rest and Christopher gets his shares of Barnes Global.

If TNT Dallas had contacted Victoria (I doubt it) they simply could have requested her silence while Cynthia dipped into her bag of tricks and used the character to further the story. I had no problem with this because I did enjoy how two iconic characters were being used to create drama. I've always had a soft spot when dead characters continue to make life difficult for the living. Weird I know.

Victoria releasing the statement informs me no contact had been made. How difficult would it have been to arrange a meeting, enjoy a cuppa while the show-runner and producers spelled out their plans for the character. I'm sure Victoria would have went along with that. She understands how Hollywood works. She understands how Soaps work...anything is possible.

But it's my gut feeling Cynthia did not reach out, much like the treatment she dished out to the creator, David Jacobs. Victoria felt compelled to release the statement out of respect to her fans, nothing more.

And I have the utmost respect for Victoria in doing that.

 

[Rove]

When Larry died it was over for them. The two seasons with him had at least a little of the Dallas feel to them; the third had none. They looked hopelessly lost in their season without JR.

This was of their own making. Even the legendary Esther Shapiro (Dynasty co-creator) was watching TNT Dallas because she asked, "Where the hell was JR?" Strange how the club of three; Larry, Patrick and Linda were being used to drum up publicity prior to TNT Dallas premiering and yet the first season showed little interest in them.

It was someones decision to make this continuation about the next generation, namely John Ross and Christopher, but the media were only interested in speaking with Larry, Patrick and Linda. The characters of JR, Bobby and Sue Ellen should have been front and centre. Those characters are the only ones viewers would have an interest in....initially...so start with a solid foundation. The characters of John Ross and Christopher were going to be recasts so allow the viewers to slowly warm to them.

Having JR sit in an old peoples home dressed in his pajamas was a mistake. Starting TNT Dallas with JR in the Ewing Building would have shown the audience straight up that the old devil was still in business, making crooked deals and destroying peoples lives. With hindsight and knowing now this was Larry's final curtain call what better way to immortalize JR by having him go out in a hail of bullets. I did say it in another thread a long time ago. JR had crossed one too many people and this time it should have been....

"Who killed JR?"​

 

[Pamela_E]

So do you think fans will trust the producers of FtWD in future? Have they not actually alienated their viewers by teasing something and letting them down? I don't watch the show so I have no idea how popular this character was, but in Dallas terms Victoria Principle was internationally the most famous face on the show. Larry had carried the show for many years, but VP was now one of the most famous people on the planet - so in terms of the possibility of her returning the news would have been huge. But she didn't take kindly to TNT teasing the fans, so she spoke out - good for her I say.

It should be pointed out also that if the actress from FtWD had spoken out it could have harmed her career - VP didn't need to worry about such things and therefore maybe they can't really compare.

That is a big question, as Madison was the star of the show and they fired her and revamped it. The show was ruined by this decision, not just my opinion but every critic and most fans.

But you are correct in saying that perhaps she wants to keep in their good books, whereas VP didn't give a hoot.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Victoria releasing the statement informs me no contact had been made.

It looks to me like because there was no contact made, it hurt her feelings and she reacted poorly. They don't need her permission to consider recasting a character they own, just because she's the actress who played that character. Is it standard practice for a show to consult with an actor who played a role, about possibly recasting the role, about maybe using that character in the future?

What happens when other shows consider a recast; does the actor who originally played the role make a statement to the public that he or she isn't returning to the show and then go on to insult the show about its "desperate attempt" to go on without them? What an ego that would take!

It should be pointed out also that if the actress from FtWD had spoken out it could have harmed her career

That's right, it would have harmed her career. It would look bad.

 

[pete lashmar]

The big problem with Dallas, and especially Pam is that Victoria always was and always will be Pam, therefore fans have ownership of that and it would be very hard to accept someone else in the role. Yes Margaret Michaels appeared as Pam in one scene, but was never seen again.

Had TNT had someone in charge that knew and loved the original series then they had 2 options - bring Pam back from episode 1 of the TNT series and build the whole launch campaign on it - had VP been approached with a bloody good script/plot line idea and accepted then brilliant, if not they could construct a backstory as to what happened to her after her disappearance and they could announce the new actress and make it a media event.

Or, 2. they could simply have forgotten about Pam or given Cliff a throw away line about her passing.

But TNT totally botched it in my opinion.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Had TNT had someone in charge that knew and loved the original series then they had 2 options - bring Pam back from episode 1 of the TNT series and build the whole launch campaign on it - had VP been approached with a bloody good script/plot line idea and accepted then brilliant,

Build the whole launch campaign on it? They had four other original main cast members returning as well, but if like you said, if she'd been approached and accepted, what I'd have liked them to do is use social media more or less in the way VP did, except not insulting the show of course. Just have her issue a statement explaining she'd not returning and do it in a classy way. Then have them do whatever necessary keep it secret that she's filming a scene - like they did with Patrick Duffy when he returned. Then when her scene airs and people find out the original Pam's back, the internet and social media would be talking about it so much that it would be the best free publicity you could ever want for a new show.

 

[Laurie!]

It looks to me like because there was no contact made, it hurt her feelings and she reacted poorly. They don't need her permission to consider recasting a character they own, just because she's the actress who played that character.

The people who acted poorly are the ones who were attempting to dupe Victoria fans into watching TNT Dallas by constantly insinuating that she could potentially come back. Plus, what idiots don't attempt to make contact with Victoria freakin' Principal when creating a Dallas continuation??? Even if only to consult with her about Pam's fate or mentioning her name, etc.

The self proclaimed "big three" who created a fictional tale about all for one and one for all with regards to TNT Dallas, seemed to hope that nobody would remember that Victoria and her character were a centerpiece of Dallas. Instead they pretended it was always them who wouldn't do anything Dallas related without the other two. Although, Larry and Patrick had no trouble at all going on with the show after Linda was let go. They made the catastrophic error in judgment that the females were easily replacable with younger, cheaper actresses who would be arm charms while Larry and Patrick milked CBS for free trips to Austria ( cause PD loved the Lipizzaner Stallions) and the Soviet Union, etc.

I applaud Victoria for getting the last laugh. Btw, she knew she didn' t have any control over the character but she always took pride in maintaining control of her name and how she'd be used for profit while on the show and afterwards. Like her or not, she's a damned smart, shrewd woman. Cidre and her duck pond were outsmarted.

 

[Rove]

They don't need her permission to consider recasting a character they own, just because she's the actress who played that character.

Again Kenny I don't dispute this. It was however TNT Dallas which decided to revisit the character of Pam. It wasn't necessary however Cynthia said herself they could play with the character for years to come. As Pete said...

Victoria always was and always will be Pam

Victoria's portrayal as Pam Ewing is burned into my retinas. If TNT Dallas made any attempt to recast the role I would never have watched it. Daytime soaps can get away with it, prime-time is something else. A good example of how not to recast is the character of Miss Ellie which has been discussed ad nauseam.

 

[Frankenstein Underworld]

I feel she handled it really well. Could have been considered petty and sour grapes if she had done a VP.

What's it called when one does a CC? Stringing fans along indefinitely with no plan to ever provide a pay off. "Doing a VP" is what gave us closure for Pam.

 

[Frankenstein Underworld]

It looks to me like because there was no contact made, it hurt her feelings and she reacted poorly. They don't need her permission to consider recasting a character they own, just because she's the actress who played that character. Is it standard practice for a show to consult with an actor who played a role, about possibly recasting the role, about maybe using that character in the future?

What happens when other shows consider a recast; does the actor who originally played the role make a statement to the public that he or she isn't returning to the show and then go on to insult the show about its "desperate attempt" to go on without them? What an ego that would take!

There's a difference between recasting a character during a show's original run and recasting years later in a continuation. When a show recasts a character during its original run, it's usually because negotiations between the actor and producers failed or the actor simply wants to leave. I'm not a fan of the practice myself, but I get that certain characters are vital.

With a continuation, nostalgia comes into play. If you're going to bring back an iconic show 20 years later, why would you consider recasting a beloved character? At that point, people are tuning in for the actors as much as the characters. That's why the actors and producers of TNT Dallas were asked specifically about Pam AND Victoria coming back. So Cidre wasn't just teasing the return of Pam, she was also teasing the return of VP. That's probably why Cidre killed Pam off after VP's statement. She knew the fans wouldn't accept anybody else in the role.

Victoria knew that actors and producers were both being asked about her and talking about her, and that's why she made a public statement. If her name had been left out of it, perhaps she wouldn't have said anything. I don't recall her saying the show made a desperate attempt to go on without her. What she said was she didn't want to tarnish Bobby and Pam's love story with a "desperate reappearance."

 

[Kenny Coyote]

There's a difference between recasting a character during a show's original run and recasting years later in a continuation. When a show recasts a character during its original run, it's usually because negotiations between the actor and producers failed or the actor simply wants to leave. I'm not a fan of the practice myself, but I get that certain characters are vital.

With a continuation, nostalgia comes into play. If you're going to bring back an iconic show 20 years later, why would you consider recasting a beloved character? At that point, people are tuning in for the actors as much as the characters. That's why the actors and producers of TNT Dallas were asked specifically about Pam AND Victoria coming back. So Cidre wasn't just teasing the return of Pam, she was also teasing the return of VP. That's probably why Cidre killed Pam off after VP's statement. She knew the fans wouldn't accept anybody else in the role.

Victoria knew that actors and producers were both being asked about her and talking about her, and that's why she made a public statement. If her name had been left out of it, perhaps she wouldn't have said anything. I don't recall her saying the show made a desperate attempt to go on without her. What she said was she didn't want to tarnish Bobby and Pam's love story with a "desperate reappearance."

That's a good description of the differences in recasting a character during an original run as opposed to in a continuation. As to why you would consider recasting a beloved character - it would likely be a combination of reasons. The best thing, of course, would be to use the original actor. If that can't or won't happen for whatever reason, whether it's a failure to agree on money, an inability to co-exist with the other actors on the show, artistic differences, or whatever it may be, then they have a decision to make. Ultimately it's a matter of how much value would a recast contribute to the show? If they decide there's an interesting story yet to be told with that character, they might go ahead and do it.

Patrick Duffy was interviewed by Steven Wayne and Karin Schill about this and he said "It was actually Victoria's call...She wrote a letter, made sort of a public declaration about why she wasn't returning to the show. So, it was ultimately her choice not to come back. I don' think the offer was made, but again, our producers have always said that any character who is still alive and any actor who is still alive that played a character, is open game for coming back on the show.....her potential was there to come back as a character and it was ultimately her decision not to."

There are a lot of rumors and speculation over this subject. I choose to go with the most direct source of information I have available to me on the subject. Right now, that's this interview. It's on page 3 of this thread, so if anyone would like to take a look at that particular part, it begins right around the 12 minute mark.

 

[Miss Texas 1967]

Patrick Duffy was interviewed by Steven Wayne and Karin Schill about this and he said "It was actually Victoria's call...She wrote a letter, made sort of a public declaration about why she wasn't returning to the show. So, it was ultimately her choice not to come back. I don' think the offer was made, but again, our producers have always said that any character who is still alive and any actor who is still alive that played a character, is open game for coming back on the show.....her potential was there to come back as a character and it was ultimately her decision not to."

Would have loved to see Katherine back and by all accounts Morgan Brittany was totally interested. I imagine CC and the rest of the writers thought Katherine died when Bobby "died" and that throwaway line about her later death was written later on sadly.

 

[Pamela_E]

.

The big problem with Dallas, and especially Pam is that Victoria always was and always will be Pam, therefore fans have ownership of that and it would be very hard to accept someone else in the role. Yes Margaret Michaels appeared as Pam in one scene, but was never seen again.

Had TNT had someone in charge that knew and loved the original series then they had 2 options - bring Pam back from episode 1 of the TNT series and build the whole launch campaign on it - had VP been approached with a bloody good script/plot line idea and accepted then brilliant, if not they could construct a backstory as to what happened to her after her disappearance and they could announce the new actress and make it a media event.

Or, 2. they could simply have forgotten about Pam or given Cliff a throw away line about her passing.

But TNT totally botched it in my opinion.

Cynthia Cidre revealed that her initial scripts were purely based on watching some episodes and reading Ultimatedallas.com. She said her decision about Pamela in her first script was purely based on the websites biography.

Pam's Final Hour

After a year away from her family Pamela was spotted by Jordan Lee and she was confronted by her brother Cliff.

She told Cliff that she was never coming back to Dallas, that she had a new life and that she was in love with her doctor. She told him to leave and never come back.

When he was gone a grief filled Pam revealed that she had lied and in fact she was dying with only a few months to live and she didn't want the people she loved to watch to her die.

Pam will always be remembered by those who loved her and wherever she is she will always be loved.

So for Cynthia Cidre, Pam was as dead as April or Kristin. Of course later on she realised the possible ambiguity and needed a catalyst for Christopher to get the shares. So the story was just a means to get us to that point and wasn't done to resolve the Pam plot.

But also at this point some weirdness was going down from both camps. I believe CC was rather bemused by the weird historical politics, that were still playing out.

Interesting to look back. I always thought it was an interesting move when Victoria took on that role in Titans. I remember being really excited by her return to the world of prime time soap.

 

[pete lashmar]

Build the whole launch campaign on it? They had four other original main cast members returning as well, but if like you said, if she'd been approached and accepted, what I'd have liked them to do is use social media more or less in the way VP did, except not insulting the show of course. Just have her issue a statement explaining she'd not returning and do it in a classy way. Then have them do whatever necessary keep it secret that she's filming a scene - like they did with Patrick Duffy when he returned. Then when her scene airs and people find out the original Pam's back, the internet and social media would be talking about it so much that it would be the best free publicity you could ever want for a new show.

Patrick's return from the dead basically killed the original show, so why would anyone want to take that risk again? I also don't think Victoria would ever allow herself to be used in a lie like that either - it's a deception that works negatively and Victoria is far more about positivity, so I think they would have had a very tough job persuading her about that.

 

[Frankenstein Underworld]

If Pam's death was merely the means to which Christopher got his shares, why did Cidre say she would have let the mystery surrounding Pam continue for years? That gave me the impression that she changed course only after VP's statement because fans knew she wouldn't be returning.

 

[pete lashmar]

If Pam's death was merely the means to which Christopher got his shares, why did Cidre say she would have let the mystery surrounding Pam continue for years? That gave me the impression that she changed course only after VP's statement because fans knew she wouldn't be returning.

I find it so funny that Victoria's statement is remembered far more than the entirety of TNT Dallas.

CC really had no idea at all did she.