What denomination are you?

[Alexis]

I was raised Catholic but I feel that Catholicism is like most organised religion flawed and very dated. You cant expect a text that was written thousands of years ago to be the standard by which we live today. The people that lived then had no concept of what our lives would be. They had almost no knowledge of the world beyond their own small lives. The world was flat and the sun revolved around us. Am I going to burn in the fires of hell because I had prawn linguini last week? Likely not, but it's a sin in the Bible, just as wearing a shirt made of two different threads is. Is there a hierarchy of sin? Is murder worse than eating pawns? Is being gay worse than tattooing your skin? Should I make burnt offerings to please the lord? A healthy male lamb or sheep? Who has the time, where do I get the lamb? I don't have a farm? Surely I'll be arrested if I take a lamb to St Luke's on Sunday and set it alight in the name of God. But these are the kind of things that the Bible goes on about. You can not take it literally.

 

[ClassyCo]

What's so wrong with being gay? Wouldn't God think that loving each other is more important? He can't condone that but if a murdering, racist PURE EVIL bastard like Hitler goes up and says 'Hi I want forgiveness' - that's ok?? Like I said, I do believe in God and am very spiritual but I cannot believe that if a gay man or woman shows up in heaven they get turned away, but Hitler rocks up and gets in? That, to me, is what is purely messed up with religion. Hitler should not even be allowed forgiveness - it shouldn't even be an option for him. One way ticket straight to hell for murdering over 2 million people. Hitler took THEIR LIVES into his own hands and killed them.

I'm not disrespecting your beliefs, but I just cannot condone the 'neat plan' that religion has concocted to be able to talk their way out of any situation - ie Hitler's suicide = sin = hell. No. Hitler murdering 2 million Jews should equal no forgiveness and ultimately an eternity in Hell.

In my opinion, homosexuality does not require forgiveness. Two people loving each other and bringing peace to the world should not be condemned.

Much of what is written in the Bible states that you can pretty much get away with anything, as long as you ask for forgiveness. Sorry but I don't believe it's that simple.

What I meant was that every human being can ask for forgiveness from God and they will get it. Had Hitler asked for forgiveness, I honestly do believe he would have gotten it. And also I do believe had he been baptized those sins of Hitler's who have been forgotten by God and never mentioned again (just as the Bible tells us). Look at Tex Watson, he was a member of the Manson family, was a convicted murderer. While in prison, he repented and I do believe he's been forgiven. I do believe he's a prison preacher now.

Hebrews 13:4: Marriage should be honored by all, and marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and the sexually immoral. For centuries, homosexuality was considered "sexually immoral". Just because it may not be "politically correct" for it to be labeled sin today, doesn't mean it isn't.

Romans 1: 26) Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27) In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28) Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. This says that God has turned the minds of some sinners over to "shameful acts". Homosexuality is "shameful" in the eyes of God.

1 Corinthians 6: 9) Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10) nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. This tells us, quite plainly, that no person practicing homosexuality or adultery, or those that are greedy, are drunks, or swindlers will enter the Kingdom of God.

Leviticus 18 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; this is detestable. This states that homosexuality is clearly an abomination to God.

And, yes, I do believe that everyone can get can forgiveness for their sins. However, they must turn from the old ways and become a new person in Christ.

1 John 1:9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. God will forgive a person of their sins, and he will purify us, but we must be willing to turn from our old ways.

2 Corinthians 5 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! One must change their walk of life to pleasing to Christ. Out with the old, in with the new.

Hebrews 10 Then he adds: 'Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.' After one has repented and been baptized in Jesus name, God has washed away their sins and they will be remember no more.

 

[Sarah]

What I meant was that every human being can ask for forgiveness from God and they will get it. Had Hitler asked for forgiveness, I honestly do believe he would have gotten it. And also I do believe had he been baptized those sins of Hitler's who have been forgotten by God and never mentioned again (just as the Bible tells us). Look at Tex Watson, he was a member of the Manson family, was a convicted murderer. While in prison, he repented and I do believe he's been forgiven. I do believe he's a prison preacher now.

What about the people they killed? I don't get it I'm sorry - who says they are forgiven? Do they hear the voice of God telling them or do they get a letter in the post? Or is it a voice in their own warped head?

It just amazes me that God can call out homosexuality but he makes no mention of racism, mass killings, putting people in concentration camps, torture, dictatorship, starvation or paedophilia.

 

[ClassyCo]

I'm a little confused.

Are you saying gay is a sin?
And to receive his forgiveness you must stop being gay?

Yes, the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin.... So, it is a sin. And yes I do believe that if one wants forgiveness for their sinful actions, whether it be homosexuality, adultery, idolatry, stealing, lying, et cetera, they must turn away from the wrong ways.

I someone wants forgiveness for lying... Well ask for it, and stop lying.

It's the same with all of them. One can be forgiven for any sin, but once you're forgiven, that doesn't mean you can continue to do what is clearly labeled sinful.

What about the people they killed? I don't get it I'm sorry - who says they are forgiven? Do they hear the voice of God telling them or do they get a letter in the post? Or is it a voice in their own warped head?

The Bible says God will forgive them. If the Bible says it, it is unquestionably true, and God himself never goes back on His word.

 

[Ome]

God himself never goes back on His word.

What's the difference between the old and new testament?

 

[Sarah]

How long does the forgiveness take? For example - a serial killer freaks out and realises it's not much fun being executed and asks on the chair for forgiveness. How long does the forgiveness take?

And how long can 21st century people be expected to abide by an AD law? If God was here, surely he would listen and maybe change His rules a little?

 

[ClassyCo]

It's quite clear that no matter what I say no one is going to agree with me. In conclusion, I agree with what the Bible says, I believe it is still relevant today, and no I don't think God would change His word if he were still present in the flesh.

I'm not concerned with being "politically correct", I want to be "Biblically correct".

 

[Alexis]

Yes, the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin.... So, it is a sin. And yes I do believe that if one wants forgiveness for their sinful actions, whether it be homosexuality, adultery, idolatry, stealing, lying, et cetera, they must turn away from the wrong ways.

I someone wants forgiveness for lying... Well ask for it, and stop lying.

It's the same with all of them. One can be forgiven for any sin, but once you're forgiven, that doesn't mean you can continue to do what is clearly labeled sinful.

But that is utterly preposterous. Basically you are saying sin away and do as you wish but if you ask for forgiveness you will get it. So I can just carry on being gay and then ask forgiveness on my death bed?

Do you also believe that all unbaptised babies go to hell? Also meaning that all of the world that is not Christian go to hell?

The Bible has no words written by Jesus himself, only retellings of his words and deeds. It was hacked together over centuries, chopped and changed and added to and taken away from to suit kings, queens, popes and governments. It's probably the earliest form of government.

 

[Alexis]

I'm not concerned with being "politically correct", I want to be "Biblically correct".

You face a long walk to madness.

 

[Ome]

It's quite clear that no matter what I say no one is going to agree with me.

That's fine, I doubt anyone is going to change their mind after a few posts.

I'm more interested in why you follow the Bible to the letter. Are you not open to change?

As we evolve we learn new ways of life, the book you are going by continues to stay stagnant in a world that is constantly evolving.

Do you think God will still say being gay is a sin if he produced an updated Bible?

 

[Ome]

It's quite clear that no matter what I say no one is going to agree with me.

Plus, if everyone agreed what would the point of debate be about?

 

[Alexis]

It's funny how people pick and chose which things they take from the Bible. Which things they are adamant about and which things they let slide.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin

the Bible does clearly state that homosexuality is a sin

"Clearly" is quite a subjective term here. The bible is a man-made tome, just as religion is a man-made construct. There are many versions and translations of both, each (as well-intentioned as the authors may have been) containing many fragments of man's own will and fallibility. Man's fallibility may also come into play in interpreting the words. This may include man's prejudices such as misogyny and, yes, homophobia.

It's funny how people pick and chose which things they take from the Bible. Which things they are adamant about and which things they let slide.

Yes. There is so much room for interpretation, and people - consciously or otherwise - choose those interpretations that are convenient for them feel better about themselves or to add weight to an already distorted belief. It has little to do with faith, spirituality, love or God's will.

I'm not concerned with being "politically correct"

From reading through this thread, it seems that any rebuttal of your comments doesn't come from a place of political correctness (another man-made construct) so much as one of empathy, life experience or even discussion.

 

[Angela Channing]

However, the Bible does clearly state that homosexuality is a sin.

I don't agree that is says that; I think it's some people's interpretation that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. What it says about men laying with men relates to a particular group of men at a particular time and not to [gay] men generally. If the Bible was "clearly" against homosexuality surely it would also say something about lesbianism but nowhere does it say anything against women having sexual contact with other women.

 

[Angela Channing]

I'm not concerned with being "politically correct", I want to be "Biblically correct".

Does being "Biblically correct" include not judging others?

 

[Alexis]

I don't agree that is says that; I think it's some people's interpretation that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. What it says about men laying with men relates to a particular group of men at a particular time and not to [gay] men generally. If the Bible was "clearly" against homosexuality surely it would also say something about lesbianism but nowhere does it say anything against women having sexual contact with other women.

Yes. It seems to me that the quote in Leviticus is about promiscuous men who slept with men, as with women, that they did not love.
Maybe God is like Queen Victoria and refuses to believe lesbians exist.

 

[Angela Channing]

Yes. It seems to me that the quote in Leviticus is about promiscuous men who slept with men, as with women, that they did not love.
Maybe God is like Queen Victoria and refuses to believe lesbians exist.

There are different interpretations of what the Bible says about homosexuality but in my view what is wrong is using the Bible to demonise gay men. People can spend a lifetime disagreeing about whether there is a conflict between being gay and being a Christian and completely miss the wider issue which is to love God and to love one another, and this love doesn't exclude any group, including LGBT people.

 

[Presea]

My, doesn't this look fun! Anyway, I'm Catholic. But I lost interest in church a long time ago after being forced to attend it so much during my childhood. I got so tired of sitting, standing, and kneeling! Wow, that might actually be a good idea for a new yoga exercise! And I couldn't stand being in Catholic schools, where their religion seems to consist of ridiculous amounts of homework. I was getting more homework in the sixth grade than I am now in college! (By the way, I apologize if any of that sounded offensive to other Catholics.) I do try to follow the ten commandants, but I'm still slipping up on the one about taking the lord's name in vain and lying in rare situations. I should make a new's year resolution for that! But there are things with the faith and commandments that bother me. But even though I believe in the story of God and Jesus, I am still open to the possibility that I could be wrong about it. To me, believing does not mean closing your eyes to other possibilities. After all, I have no hard evidence that any of this is real. For all I know, the person who wrote the bible might have thought this: "I'm going to write all of this stuff and tons of people will be doing what I say for eternity!" (Once again, I apologize if this sounds offensive.) I believe that Jesus coming here was how God was finally able to experience humanity for the first time, and because of that, he became more sympathetic to us. Especially since I always thought that aside from his mission, he seemed a lot like a regular person who liked to spend time with his friends. Based on this, I don't think that God is as rigid about the rules as the bible makes it sound. For example, I think that as long as someone haven't been too bad, God will probably just make them do some sort community service work in the afterlife. Of course, there is no way for me to know if I'm right about any of this.

I don't agree that is says that; I think it's some people's interpretation that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. What it says about men laying with men relates to a particular group of men at a particular time and not to [gay] men generally. If the Bible was "clearly" against homosexuality surely it would also say something about lesbianism but nowhere does it say anything against women having sexual contact with other women.

It is also confusing when it comes to the commandment about not desiring anything that another man owns. When I was in Sunday school, a girl asked the priest if this meant it was a sin if you liked a really cool pair of shoes that someone had. The priest told her yes, and that has always bothered me. I think that what it really was supposed to mean was that you're not supposed to want something that someone has so much that you would be willing to kill for it or something. The way the ten commandments are written can be very vague and confusing.

 

[Angela Channing]

It is also confusing when it comes to the commandment about not desiring anything that another man owns. When I was in Sunday school, a girl asked the priest if this meant it was a sin if you liked a really cool pair of shoes that someone had. The priest told her yes, and that has always bothered me. I think that what it really was supposed to mean was that you're not supposed to want something that someone has so much that you would be willing to kill for it or something. The way the ten commandments are written can be very vague and confusing.

I don't think thje Ten Commandents are vague but an impossible standard to live up to so everyone is a sinner by that standard. This is why I always have a problem with Christians that chose to single out gays for particular criticism. We should be concerned about the plank of wood in your own eyes before we worry about the speck of sawdust in someone else's eye.