Why did DYNASTY need to be saved in season 6 but not season 7?

Gabriel Maxwell

Telly Talk Addict
LV
0
 
Awards
4
Absolutely, but that applies to everything, including what they did in season 7 instead of what they had planned for season 7.

Of course, but my point was - following up on your instant 'Scooby Doo' dismissal - that some ideas look good on paper, but may get screwed up in execution, while others are just plain bad from the get-go. I did not find the potential pairing of Dex and Caress in Australia to dig up dirt on Ben to be the latter.

It certainly would've been a lot more exciting then what they ended up doing on the show - getting rid of Caress, making Alexis jealous over the unlikely pairing of Dex & Dominique and having a castrated Ben try to reconnect with a daughter nobody really cared about other than that she used to be deliciously nasty on "North & South."

The bottom line? They should've simply not bothered with the retooling, if they had continued doing in 7B what they were doing in 7A it most likely wouldn't have been any worse than the saccharine we ended up with.

I think I would think, how convenient that this information would drop into his lap. I like the danger coming from an unexpected angle every now and then.

Surely not any more convenient than Neal McVane just happening to share a jail cell with the guy who had inside scoop on what really happened with Adam Carrington's kidnapping 30 years prior. I do give them points for the surprise of his reappearance at that particular point.
 

Screamboat Willie

Telly Talk Schemer
LV
9
 
Awards
24
I did not find the potential pairing of Dex and Caress in Australia to dig up dirt on Ben to be the latter.
It's not awful but I find it so unimaginative and predictable (what are the odds that they wouldn't find something), and unless he turned out to be a mass murderer I don't think I would have disliked him more.

I understand that it's wanting for the impossible for Dynasty season 7, but I wish they had done something more clever.
And not just "finding dirt here", "discredit someone there" etc. It's bitchy, but not compelling.
 

Gabriel Maxwell

Telly Talk Addict
LV
0
 
Awards
4
I understand that it's wanting for the impossible for Dynasty season 7, but I wish they had done something more clever. And not just "finding dirt here", "discredit someone there" etc. It's bitchy, but not compelling.

Of course, one should note that's just my summing up the differences in quick bullet points. How extensive or creative with the details of Dex & Caress' trip the original season 7 bible was, I can't recall. What I do remember is - whatever it was - it sounded a whole lot better than the yawn-inducing 7B course correction we got to see.
 

Matthew Blaisdel

Telly Talk Star
LV
0
 
Awards
4
The reason for that course correction were (again) the dropping ratings, right?
The fatal problem was, they weren't dropping because 7A was so bad, but because all our beloved "rich-family"-primetime-soaps were on a sinking ship, no matter what they did. :(
It was kind of their "last desperate attempt", maybe even aware the outcome of the retooling was worse than what was originally intended, but couldn't help it, because the original intention WAS already the best they could come up with at that point.
And then they just gave it up... and crammed all those "lost" ideas into S8. That kind of explains the "relaxed" tone in S8 as well ... they had completly given up and all was just on "live-support". The body was still alive and -for a limited time of reduced number of 22 episodes- save... but what was left of the show's tortured soul was long gone. It left outside an open window at the and of "A love remembered, Part 2". :sad:


How theatralic! :D
 
Last edited:

Spooky Owl!

Telly Talk Supreme
LV
5
 
Awards
15
The reason for that course correction were (again) the dropping ratings, right?
The fatal problem was, they weren't dropping because 7A was so bad, but because all our beloved "rich-family"-primetime-soaps were on a sinking ship, no matter what they did. :(
I'm not sure I entirely agree. By the end of the '80s, KNOTS LANDING, though down, was outrating the other nighttime soaps because its writing was so much better. The soaps' slide wasn't inevitable -- not as fast it happened in the late-'80s. At the time, everybody was talking about how awful they'd gotten.

Matthew Blaisdel said:
It was kind of their "last desperate attempt", maybe even aware the outcome of the retooling was worse than what was originally intended, but couldn't help it, because the original intention WAS already the best they could come up with at that point.
And then they just gave it up... and crammed all those "lost" ideas into S8. That kind of explains the "relaxed" tone in S8 as well ... they had completly given up and all was just on "live-support". The body was still alive and -for a limited time of reduced number of 22 episodes- save... but what was left of the show's tortured soul was long gone. It left outside an open window at the and of "A love remembered, Part 2". :sad:
Yes, it's funny and not surprising that the producers no longer giving a damn would actually make Season 8 a wee bit easier to sit thru, dumb as it still was.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Majorfanofshow

Telly Talk Active Member
LV
0
 
Awards
1
Granted the sitcoms were hitting the sweet spot for viewers. Half-hour sitcoms don't require much from the audience unlike our weekly fix of primetime soaps where some knowledge of developing story is required. I've always argued the primetime soaps shot themselves in the foot (Dynasty in particular) with their grandstanding cliffhanger episodes. With Dynasty the rot had set in with the "Moldavian Massacre" resolution. Then it was the turn of Dallas with the "Dream Season" resolution. The ultimate humiliation for fans of primetime soaps of course was Fallon abducted by aliens. How did it come to this?

From an outsider's perspective Dynasty appeared to suffer greatly from too many chefs and not enough cooks. ABC Executives meddling, Aaron Spelling desperate to save the cash cow and the Shapiro husband and wife team (let's be honest) riding on the coattails of that other primetime juggernaut...Dallas.

So...by the time it came to saving Dynasty, who was actually steering the ship?
The Steerers were the audience! ABC did hire people to organize focus groups and show them episodes and if they hated what was going on they would send producers notes and then producers would change whatever they were doing!!!!
 

Rove

Telly Talk Warrior
LV
0
 
Awards
5
ABC did hire people to organize focus groups
No! Not the dreaded focus groups. :brick: Reminds of the times I use to attend meetings with middle management. Those meetings of course would be steered by someone higher up the ladder. They would speak and the others would nod....in unison. Sometimes I felt like I was participating in an episode of the Twilight Zone. Was I the only person with a different opinion?
 

Tony

Telly Talk Fan
LV
0
 
Awards
4
As Kate O'Mara said on the Wogan chat show during the S6-7 hiatus, she thought that 'the producers made it up as they went along. They see how you are being received by the audience.'

Hence Michael Praed and the Moldavians were dropped for being unpopular.
Karen Cellini was fired after two episodes airing because of the poor reception.
Kathleen Beller was let go because Kirby wasn't popular with the audience.

And Kate O'Mara herself was let go because of Joan Collins resentment that she was proving too popular with the audience. Kate was supposed to return for 4 additional episodes at the end of S7 to finish her story arc with Ben, but didn't want to stay in LA kicking her heels and returned to England to do a play.
 

Michael Torrance

Telly Talk Mega Star
LV
0
 
Awards
1
Of course they did retool the show in season 7, it's just that we don't have many details about it contrary to season 6 B.
Yes, that is what prompted me to start this thread, because people often talk of the original bible, cut scenes with Wayne Northrop etc., and I was hoping to get all the info people have.

From what I read during the first half of 7A, the Shapiros were in a law suit with Spelling's company over Dynasty royalties, to the point that 'no one was minding the store' as John Forsythe commented.
You know, I remember Esther Shapiro declaring "the show was taken from us" but I wasn't sure of the time-frame. It would make sense if that was it.

They did make a big publicity attempt in November 1986, with the signing of two year contracts for Evans, Forsythe and Collins to take them through to the beginning of Season 9. Plus the much touted press releases of better storylines, shorter story arcs, the Carlton set!, and Dynasty's 150th episode celebration which you can watch on Youtube.

But I think a misguided complacency 'What problems' we've fixed them?' after Season 6's nose dive, makes you think that the producers didn't learn from their mistakes - e.g.; firing Oxenberg, hiring Cellini, and letting Kate O'Mara go (at Collins insistence I suppose because she just resigned her contract).

I remember the publicity for the 150th episode--I saw the pictures in Europe and was surprised that all of a sudden Evans had a new hairdo. Firing Oxenberg and hiring Cellini merely on resemblance, and apparently hairstyle being the main direction she was getting, was I guess the writing on the wall that things were going wrong again after improving in 6B.

An odd statement from Aaron. Clearly he had not watched Dallas as their story arcs could run a whole and still keep the audience enthralled.
Not only that--DYNASTY started as a soap that would show DALLAS how it's done (and it did), with an amazing tightly-woven novel plot unlike DALLAS' early loose episodes in the first two seasons. But was Spelling someone who had any expertise on how a soap was supposed to be written and therefore should be making such claims?

I think @Gabriel Maxwell delivered a most thorough account of what was the original plan (most of which I did not know). The retooling was in the opposite direction--making the show worse instead of better like in season 6. Dex and Caress going in Australia would not merely have been important for digging up dirt on Ben but also for seeing how these two characters interacted, for instance. A bible is a whole canvas, not just little dots of colour.
And like @Matthew Blaisdel I refuse to believe the audience did not care for Ben or Caress.

I'm not sure I entirely agree. By the end of the '80s, KNOTS LANDING, though down, was outrating the other nighttime soaps because its writing was so much better. The soaps' slide wasn't inevitable -- not as fast it happened in the late-'80s. At the time, everybody was talking about how awful they'd gotten.

Absolutely. Look at how DALLAS faded--gradually--as opposed to the precipitous decline of DYNASTY in seasons 7B and 8 ratings-wise. Maybe the era of big prime-time soaps dominating the top 10 was over, but they could still be in the line-up. Which brings me perhaps to the biggest problem...

The Steerers were the audience! ABC did hire people to organize focus groups and show them episodes and if they hated what was going on they would send producers notes and then producers would change whatever they were doing!!!!

I would like to think that isn't true, given how in interviews (like in THE DYNASTY YEARS) Esther Shapiro swore they never had surveys for the plots, but maybe that was when she was no longer in control, or no longer cared, or both, and I am afraid it probably is true.

You know, Shapiro had shared that the original title was Oil and the network did a survey of other possible names the Shapiros offered. Oil came in dead last so that made them forget about it and it was a working title anyway. "Mile High" came as #1 on the focus survey and DYNASTY was #6, but the Shapiros chose DYNASTY for what it evoked. That kind of decision shows someone with a vision. Focus group feedback is the kind of desperation that leads to playing roulette with your show.

I have always liked season 8 more than season 7, despite the promise of 7A and "A Love Remembered," but maybe because after the discombobulated feeling of 7B, anything was bound to feel better.
 
Last edited:

Rove

Telly Talk Warrior
LV
0
 
Awards
5
Not only that--DYNASTY started as a soap that would show DALLAS how it's done (and it did), with an amazing tightly-woven novel plot unlike DALLAS' early loose episodes in the first two seasons.
To be fair though Dynasty commenced 3 years after the birth of Dallas and the initial premise of Dallas was standalone episodes until Sue Ellen became pregnant. Dynasty meantime nearly received the axe after its first season. Most blame the slow pace and lacking a character type (J.R.) the audience could sink their teeth into. I liked the first and second season of Dynasty but once Alexis was crowned Queen of Denver and suddenly had the business degree of Warren Buffet I turned away. A shame really because just as Alexis had entered stage left I thought Dynasty could have taken a different path to what it became.
 

TJames03

Banned
LV
0
 
Awards
4
By Dynasty's seventh season, all of the nighttime soaps were doomed. Sure, some ran longer than others, but their best days were behind them - some just died slower than others. Too much damage had been done to Dynasty to save it, and if they thought that the writing for the seventh season was going to be better than the sixth, they were crazy!
 

Michael Torrance

Telly Talk Mega Star
LV
0
 
Awards
1
Alexis marrying Sean was a watered down version of Alexis marrying either Galen or Ben
Except, Alexis marrying Sean (especially the way Sean was written/acted) was like Joan Collins playing in one of her own mini-series like SINS or MONTE CARLO in terms of storyline effect. Alexis marrying Ben would have created even more tension between her and her children (although frankly the show was already mishandling that in 7A). Alexis should have been in that mansion for at least a season if not more. As for Blake, every time he lost DC he was shown penniless, even though talk about him (for instance by Joel) mentioned other businesses besides oil. Having him living in a hotel and starting from scratch was ridiculous and making his return to the mansion and DC feel even more imminent. If he simply got some other place and worked on his other businesses but his ego was hurt that he no longer owned DC and the mansion he built for his family they would have been able to have him involved in other storylines, like something with Krystle and her health, the deal with (the real) Amanda and Michael etc. while Alexis is more and more isolated from the family and trapped in that blackmailed marriage with Ben. And Ben as played by Christopher Cazenove had the potential to be quite the menace.

By Dynasty's seventh season, all of the nighttime soaps were doomed. Sure, some ran longer than others, but their best days were behind them - some just died slower than others. Too much damage had been done to Dynasty to save it, and if they thought that the writing for the seventh season was going to be better than the sixth, they were crazy!

I don't buy that premise, especially when looking at season 9.
 
Last edited:

Michael Torrance

Telly Talk Mega Star
LV
0
 
Awards
1
To be fair though Dynasty commenced 3 years after the birth of Dallas and the initial premise of Dallas was standalone episodes until Sue Ellen became pregnant. Dynasty meantime nearly received the axe after its first season. Most blame the slow pace and lacking a character type (J.R.) the audience could sink their teeth into.

Well, even with J.R. DALLAS was not a mega hit right away--so ABC was stupid to expect DYNASTY would be. As for format, what I meant was that DALLAS stumbled into the soap format after Sue Ellen's pregnancy as you said, per the writers' own interviews, even though there had been a format for prime time soaps for decades--PEYTON PLACE. DYNASTY was intentionally a soap from the get go.

Regarding cancellation, DYNASTY was #23 in its cliffhanger in season 1, 32th befofe that. ABC had already cancelled Charlie's Angels (by Spelling), Eight is Enough, and Soap that year, and all of the shows that premiered that season as well. Given its pedigree and the Spelling brand, I think the cancellation talk was more pressure on Spelling to make the show more of a ratings success; although ABC itself moved it from Mondays against MASH (#4) to Wednesdays against nothing noteworthy at 10 p.m.
 

TJames03

Banned
LV
0
 
Awards
4
Sorry, but Season 09 wasn't Dynasty. No Krystle, only sporadic Alexis, etc. Sorry, guys, but it felt more like a spinoff show than a parent show.
 

Spooky Owl!

Telly Talk Supreme
LV
5
 
Awards
15
Any producer who would sign off on (let alone demand) those unnecessarily super-blurry close-ups of Joan and Linda during Season 8 was deranged and totally out of touch in their lack of objectivity. (I'm not referring to the late-S6 thru S7 absurdly grainy broadcast prints which were fixable).

Paulsen had that ultra-lensing crap removed by his third episode.
 

ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

Telly Talk TV Fanatic
LV
0
 
Awards
5
What I find most intriguing about the numerous revamps during seasons 6 & 7 was how the fact that Prince Michael at least would've been in season 7, despite the fact I'm not really a fan of the Moldavian storyline in general it was by far miles more entertaining than what season 7B produced.

Season 8 did seem more relaxed because by the 1987/88 season, all the primetime soaps were on their final legs pretty much, DYNASTY. DALLAS & FALCON CREST all ended within a year of one another from 1989 to 1991, with KNOTS striding on into the mid 1990s, but season 8 was like watching a show that simply no longer cared but still half heartedly produced a coherent storyline for the first time in several years at that point.
 

Spooky Owl!

Telly Talk Supreme
LV
5
 
Awards
15
What I find most intriguing about the numerous revamps during seasons 6 & 7 was how the fact that Prince Michael at least would've been in season 7, despite the fact I'm not really a fan of the Moldavian storyline in general it was by far miles more entertaining than what season 7B produced.

Season 8 did seem more relaxed because by the 1987/88 season, all the primetime soaps were on their final legs pretty much, DYNASTY. DALLAS & FALCON CREST all ended within a year of one another from 1989 to 1991, with KNOTS striding on into the mid 1990s, but season 8 was like watching a show that simply no longer cared but still half heartedly produced a coherent storyline for the first time in several years at that point.
Pretty much. I indeed wish they'd held on to Prince Michael thru Season 7 had they used him correctly (and that doesn't mean as the hotel concierge) even as they dispensed with the Moldavia plots.

In my reworked alternative DYNASTic universe, King Galen and Zachary Powers are somehow the same character, played by Ricardo Montalban, and spins off onto THE COLBYS to flirt with Sable. With Joel Fabiani never even existing.
ricardo%2Bmontalban%2Bdynasty.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Michael Torrance

Telly Talk Mega Star
LV
0
 
Awards
1
Season 8 did seem more relaxed because by the 1987/88 season, all the primetime soaps were on their final legs pretty much, DYNASTY. DALLAS & FALCON CREST all ended within a year of one another from 1989 to 1991, with KNOTS striding on into the mid 1990s, but season 8 was like watching a show that simply no longer cared but still half heartedly produced a coherent storyline for the first time in several years at that point.

It was a season long arc for the first time in years, plots were intertwined, Krystle was given a bit of a bite, the past was revisited (both Kirby/Joseph and Cecil's death) and there was the "passing of the baton" element to the younger generation which would actually have justified the title and concept of "Dynasty." While the governors' races denied all credibility (and the surrogacy drama was too season 7B for my taste), there were interesting interactions between the siblings, as well as between the younger generation in general--and Emma Samms started looking alive after her Stockholm syndrome years in THE COLBYS. But the great drama of the show was that by that point (and loooong before it), its show-runners were not fans of it. DYNASTY still had its cushy Wednesday 10 p.m. timeslot at that point. If a competent exec producer had the reigns, who knows what could have happened...
 
Last edited:

ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

Telly Talk TV Fanatic
LV
0
 
Awards
5
I always found season 8 was basically a watered down do over of season 6, it was like in Autumn 1987 TPTB wanted to go back to 1985, the year DYNASTY became the number one show, all they did was alter some of the planned season 6 & 7 storylines for different characters and voila! You could say season 8 is as close to what we the viewers will ever see of what season 6 was supposed to have been like.

As for Prince Michael, he was a wasted opportunity personified @Snarky's Ghost has some great ideas regarding his character and I have a few of my own: I would have him go from being the stuff shirt
Central European prince to a wild American partier alongside Adam with whom he'd form a bromance (or the 80s equivalent) with.

Michael would be Mikhail to avoid confusion with Michael Culhane, and he would sleep with both Sammy Jo and Claudia, the latter would become pregnant by him, there was no reason in Mikhail not sticking around longer to be honest, though I do.like Clay
 

TJames03

Banned
LV
0
 
Awards
4
Dynasty was simply too big of a pile of shit. The Colbys conglomerated into it to make the pile bigger. There was NOTHING that could be done. There is quality and quantity and all of the nighttime soaps went for quantity and became garbage that bore NO resemblance to what they were when they became hits They all went out with a whimper.
 
Last edited:
Top