6 more months of tyranny.... (UK)

cobbles

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The country will face another 6 months in the coronavirus lockdown powers that have been used to completely undermine all of our basic human rights for in excess of a year. Conveniently extended to September when as we all know another wave of Covid is a distinct possibility so they may seek a further 6 months, so realistic possibility of this tyranny going on into it's 2nd year.
 

Angela Channing

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The problem we have is that Boris Johnson and his government have completely mismanaged the whole coronavirus crisis. The first lockdown was way too late and lead to tens of thousands more deaths than was necessary. Now the government are overcompensating for their initial lack of action. Our entire response to the pandemic has been one cock up after another.

I'm not against extending the restrictions if it was associated with a viable plan for how we are going to return to a life more normal. However because of the total disaster of Test, Trace and Isolate, instead of only identified individuals having their movements restricted the government have had to apply the restrictions to everybody.

There really needs to be an serious investigation into the corruption surrounding the test and trace system and how Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock and Rishi Sunak have lined the pockets of their friends and Tory party donors with £37 billion of our cash and have little to show for it. Countries with effective systems have been able to relax their lockdown restrictions at return to a life more normal.
 
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ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

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The country will face another 6 months in the coronavirus lockdown powers that have been used to completely undermine all of our basic human rights for in excess of a year. Conveniently extended to September when as we all know another wave of Covid is a distinct possibility so they may seek a further 6 months, so realistic possibility of this tyranny going on into it's 2nd year.

Well we can kiss the NHS goodbye when there’s a fourth lockdown so the whole “protect the NHS” slogan is pretty much redundant at this point, Richard Branson or some other billionaire will snap it up.

It’s absolutely unnecessary, with enough people vaccinated by then there shouldn’t be any need for a fourth lockdown whatsoever.

Mental health issues will sky rocket, people will be poorer, small businesses will suffer, I don’t know how much more we can take!
 

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Countries with effective systems have been able to relax their lockdown restrictions at return to a life more normal.
...and this is exactly what's occurred here in New South Wales. Our State Government has handled this extremely well by introducing mandatory lockdowns when required but....and I mean this with a big BUT...they introduced a superb contact tracing system. I believe now all restrictions regarding Covid-19 have been lifted as the vaccine rollout is underway.
 

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...and this is exactly what's occurred here in New South Wales. Our State Government has handled this extremely well by introducing mandatory lockdowns when required but....and I mean this with a big BUT...they introduced a superb contact tracing system. I believe now all restrictions regarding Covid-19 have been lifted as the vaccine rollout is underway.
The key to getting out of lockdown safely isn't vaccination but having an effective test and trace system. When people are found to be infected all their contacts need to be traced and are made to isolate for at least 10 days to stop onward infections and that needs to be followed up and enforced. We have never had that system in the UK even though we have spent £37 billion on it and a report by Parliament has said the government's system has been ineffective. That's why we have to have prolonged lockdowns and chat about vaccine passports. We just have to look at countries that have handled it far better than us and learn from them.
 

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It’s absolutely unnecessary, with enough people vaccinated by then there shouldn’t be any need for a fourth lockdown whatsoever.
The AstraZeneca vaccine is only 70% effective against Covid and polls have shown that only 70% of the population are willing to be vaccinated so we can't rely on vaccination alone to stop the spread of the virus. However, there should be a plan to lift the lockdown but it can't be done without having an effective plan in place to stop the virus from spreading again.
 
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cobbles

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The AstraZeneca vaccine is only 70% effective against Covid and polls have shown that only 70% of the population are willing to be vaccinated so we can't rely on vaccination alone to stop the spread of the virus. However, there should be a plan to lift the lockdown but it can't be done without having an effective plan in place to stop the virus from spreading

At some point we are going to have to ask the question of whether it's really the states role to stop the spread of the virus.
 

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At some point we are going to have to ask the question of whether it's really the states role to stop the spread of the virus.
It's always been the state's role to protect the people of the country.

Do you think the virus should be let to rip through the population? Do you think we should do nothing to stop the South African variant which the existing vaccines are ineffective against? Do you think the estimated 500,000 deaths that would cause is something we should just accept? Do you think the millions of people, mainly young people, who will suffer from long covid for many years, maybe forever, should just accept it was a price worth paying for opening up the economy early?
 

ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

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The AstraZeneca vaccine is only 70% effective against Covid and polls have shown that only 70% of the population are willing to be vaccinated so we can't rely on vaccination alone to stop the spread of the virus. However, there should be a plan to lift the lockdown but it can't be done without having an effective plan in place to stop the virus from spreading again.

The government keep changing the goal posts every time they dangle a carrot in front of us.

First they tell people to get vaccinated as a “gateway” to holidays only for them to fine people £5000 if they leave the country????

The economy cannot withstand a fourth lockdown, people are sick and tired at having their lives on hold, lockdowns make people poorer not richer (unless you’re a buddy of someone in the Tories) life has to return to normality at some point, the government shouldn’t have promised that the vaccine would be this miracle cure back to normality, if enough people are vaccinated then from June or October normality has to come back no ifs or buts or conditions
 

ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

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It's always been the state's role to protect the people of the country.

Do you think the virus should be let to rip through the population? Do you think we should do nothing to stop the South African variant which the existing vaccines are ineffective against? Do you think the estimated 500,000 deaths that would cause is something we should just accept? Do you think the millions of people, mainly young people, who will suffer from long covid for many years, maybe forever, should just accept it was a price worth paying for opening up the economy early?

So we should lockdown forever then? Every life is precious and we should be careful but there comes a time when we need to focus on the mental health of the people who have been isolated for far too long, people who are struggling financially, people who are going without food.

Lockdowns only benefit the rich and those who can work from home.
 

Angela Channing

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So we should lockdown forever then? Every life is precious and we should be careful but there comes a time when we need to focus on the mental health of the people who have been isolated for far too long, people who are struggling financially, people who are going without food.

Lockdowns only benefit the rich and those who can work from home.
No we shouldn't lockdown forever. We need to sack Dido Harding, scrap her Test and Trace debacle and give the money to local authorities to run test, trace and isolate. Then we can open up the economy and anyone who tests positive for covid, and their contacts, are isolated and monitored while the rest of the population can get on with their lives. Just opening up without a plan to contain the virus would lead to so many more problems.

The alternative of just opening up and to hell with the consequences could lead to an estimated 500,000 deaths and millions more suffering from long covid.
 

Angela Channing

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The government keep changing the goal posts every time they dangle a carrot in front of us.

First they tell people to get vaccinated as a “gateway” to holidays only for them to fine people £5000 if they leave the country????

The economy cannot withstand a fourth lockdown, people are sick and tired at having their lives on hold, lockdowns make people poorer not richer (unless you’re a buddy of someone in the Tories) life has to return to normality at some point, the government shouldn’t have promised that the vaccine would be this miracle cure back to normality, if enough people are vaccinated then from June or October normality has to come back no ifs or buts or conditions
Boris Johnson and his Tory government should be prosecuted and jailed for corporate manslaughter for how they have mismanaged the pandemic.

However, I think a complete opening up of the country with no conditions and with only a useless test and trace system will lead to too many deaths and almost as bad, cause millions to develop long covid which will be a massive financial drain on the economy for decades.
 

cobbles

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It's always been the state's role to protect the people of the country.

Do you think the virus should be let to rip through the population? Do you think we should do nothing to stop the South African variant which the existing vaccines are ineffective against? Do you think the estimated 500,000 deaths that would cause is something we should just accept? Do you think the millions of people, mainly young people, who will suffer from long covid for many years, maybe forever, should just accept it was a price worth paying for opening up the economy early?

It's been the state's role to provide people with the resources to protect themselves, an entirely different sentiment. It's only in the last few years that this idea the state is meant to nanny us has become accepted, dangerously accepted. You can seek healthcare, and it will be there for you. You can seek benefits and use them to keep yourself from abject destitution, but the onus is on you to re-enter the working world if you want a higher standard of living. We have a first rate education system, but a parent or young adult can choose whether their children/they wish to engage with it and further their education. We have a fabulous police and criminal justice system - but you choose whether to involve yourself with it when a crime is committed.

What were seeing now, is a different kettle of fish. The agency of choice has been completely removed. You either sign up to have your life and livelihood destroyed, or you're a selfish criminal with no regard for others. The nuance, the individuality and individual liberty has been eroded.

Tell the hundreds of thousands across the country piling onto universal credit and queuing for food vouchers when the number of Covid deaths yesterday was 63 people, that a nationwide lockdown is still the right solution to these problems. Tell the hundreds of thousands more including myself who've went from full time employment to unstable part time work, that the lockdowns are price worth paying. Tell the millions of parents and grandparents who've been unable to see the grandchildren this was a price worth paying. Tell those locked in care homes in their dying days with no access to family this was a price worth paying. Tell the thousands of businesses lying in mountainous levels of debt, that this lockdown was a price worth paying. Tell the tens of thousands of families left without the opportunity to say a proper goodbye to their nearest and dearest, that this lockdown was a price worth paying. Tell the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions who have worked for decades to save up for a comfortable retirement, or to see them through a bad patch now left eeking down their life savings to keep themselves alive without an iota of access to the welfare system, that this lockdown has been a price worth paying. Don't expect them to listen to you or care for what you say.

There is nothing wrong with Coronavirus guidance and giving governmental advice, there is everything wrong with forcing that advice on an entire population and making the seeking of basic human desires like social interaction and free trade of business, and engagement in basic human rights like protest a criminal activity. There has been previous pandemics, none were treated with the same liberty restrictive severity as this for good reason; it wouldn't have been accepted by a population that hadn't been indoctrinated to think that the state was their to be it's parent, not it's facilitator.

There has been many other social tragedies, often with large death counts throughout the history of our country. In every instance the public has been given advice on what it should do and provided with the opportunity to make their own decisions, with some exceptions. None before, and hopefully none again have been used to exert so much control, to lay entire segments of our working population to ruin and to ruin entire industries.

It's not about simply 'opening the economy up earlier' - it's about restoring life and liberty, it's about preventing long term deprivation factors. Unemployment at the age of 18-24 is linked to long term career and lifelong financial poverty - we've just created millions of lifetime poor in order to save the lives of the primarily elderly and vulnerable, millions of people who will likely need increased healthcare as they age as a result of poverty linked health issues, millions of people left to rot to save a few hundred thousand lives. I'm not saying we should have never locked down at all, but the question of cost v benefit is not as clear-cut as it was at the start of the pandemic.
 
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Angela Channing

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It's been the state's role to provide people with the resources to protect themselves, an entirely different sentiment. It's only in the last few years that this idea the state is meant to nanny us has become accepted, dangerously accepted. You can seek healthcare, and it will be there for you. You can seek benefits and use them to keep yourself from abject destitution, but the onus is on you to re-enter the working world if you want a higher standard of living. We have a first rate education system, but a parent or young adult can choose whether their children/they wish to engage with it and further their education. We have a fabulous police and criminal justice system - but you choose whether to involve yourself with it when a crime is committed.

What were seeing now, is a different kettle of fish. The agency of choice has been completely removed. You either sign up to have your life and livelihood destroyed, or you're a selfish criminal with no regard for others. The nuance, the individuality and individual liberty has been eroded.

Tell the hundreds of thousands across the country piling onto universal credit and queuing for food vouchers when the number of Covid deaths yesterday was 63 people, that a nationwide lockdown is still the right solution to these problems. Tell the hundreds of thousands more including myself who've went from full time employment to unstable part time work, that the lockdowns are price worth paying. Tell the millions of parents and grandparents who've been unable to see the grandchildren this was a price worth paying. Tell those locked in care homes in their dying days with no access to family this was a price worth paying. Tell the thousands of businesses lying in mountainous levels of debt, that this lockdown was a price worth paying. Tell the tens of thousands of families left without the opportunity to say a proper goodbye to their nearest and dearest, that this lockdown was a price worth paying. Tell the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions who have worked for decades to save up for a comfortable retirement, or to see them through a bad patch now left eeking down their life savings to keep themselves alive without an iota of access to the welfare system, that this lockdown has been a price worth paying. Don't expect them to listen to you or care for what you say.

There is nothing wrong with Coronavirus guidance and giving governmental advice, there is everything wrong with forcing that advice on an entire population and making the seeking of basic human desires like social interaction and free trade of business, and engagement in basic human rights like protest a criminal activity. There has been previous pandemics, none were treated with the same liberty restrictive severity as this for good reason; it wouldn't have been accepted by a population that hadn't been indoctrinated to think that the state was their to be it's parent, not it's facilitator.

There has been many other social tragedies, often with large death counts throughout the history of our country. In every instance the public has been given advice on what it should do and provided with the opportunity to make their own decisions, with some exceptions. None before, and hopefully none again have been used to exert so much control, to lay entire segments of our working population to ruin and to ruin entire industries.

It's not about simply 'opening the economy up earlier' - it's about restoring life and liberty, it's about preventing long term deprivation factors. Unemployment at the age of 18-24 is linked to long term career and lifelong financial poverty - we've just created millions of lifetime poor in order to save the lives of the primarily elderly and vulnerable, millions of people who will likely need increased healthcare as they age as a result of poverty linked health issues, millions of people left to rot to save a few hundred thousand lives. I'm not saying we should have never locked down at all, but the question of cost v benefit is not as clear-cut as it was at the start of the pandemic.
You didn't answer any of my questions so I assume your answer would be yes, you do think it's ok to allow the virus to rip through the population and kill hundreds of thousands more people and leave a life long legacy of long covid on millions of other survivors.

Your view of the role of the state appears to be a right-wing one seeing everyone acting individually rather than as a society working to a common good which is the opposite to my socialist viewpoint so we see the issue from different perspectives. However, factually many of the things you said are wrong. We don't have a choice whether or not to participate in the criminal justice system as courts can subpoena witnesses, we don't have choice whether to participate in the education system as it's compulsory to the age of 18. We all contribute and take out of public services to different amounts depending on our individual circumstances at different points in our lives. As a society we have a responsibility to look after each other and to be looked after by each other.

I agree that millions have had their livelihoods destroyed by lockdowns, I'm one of them, but what about the millions of people whose lives have been destroyed by the covid virus because they have lost loved ones or they are now facing a diminished life dealing with long covid or caring for someone with that condition?

I agree with you that it's about restoring life and liberty and preventing long term deprivation, I want that too, but that can't be achieved if hundreds of thousands more are dying and millions more a living with long covid. How can a business function properly if regularly employees are dying, going off sick or dealing with long covid? How can we expect people to return to mixing and going about their every day lives if they know there was a growing chance of coming into contact with someone who could give them a virus that could kill them or leave them with chronic disease that would ruin their quality of life?

You are also wrong to think the lockdowns are only to protect the old and the vulnerable because long covid seems to be affecting younger people more than the elderly. Therefore, do we really want to create a generation suffering with chronic fatigue, muscle pain, brain fog, anxiety and depression and an increased chance of developing heart problems and dementia? Lockdowns protect the young more than the elderly because they have more of their lives yet to live.

The solution isn't repeated lockdowns but to get as many people vaccinated as possible and implement an effective test, trace and isolate programme and then we can go back to living our lives safely and without fear but until we get to that point, we have to maintain social distance and have other restrictions to control the virus spread.
 
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cobbles

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You didn't answer any of my questions so I assume your answer would be yes, you do think it's ok to allow the virus to rip through the population and kill hundreds of thousands more people and leave a life long legacy of long covid on millions of other survivors.

Your view of the role of the state appears to be a right-wing one seeing everyone acting individually rather than as a society working to a common good which is the opposite to my socialist viewpoint so we see the issue from different perspectives. However, factually many of the things you said are wrong. We don't have a choice whether or not to participate in the criminal justice system as courts can subpoena witnesses, we don't have choice whether to participate in the education system as it's compulsory to the age of 18. We all contribute and take out of public services to different amounts depending on our individual circumstances at different points in our lives. As a society we have a responsibility to look after each other and to be looked after by each other.

I agree that millions have had their livelihoods destroyed by lockdowns, I'm one of them, but what about the millions of people whose lives have been destroyed by the covid virus because they have lost loved ones or they are now facing a diminished life dealing with long covid or caring for someone with that condition?

I agree with you that it's about restoring life and liberty and preventing long term deprivation, I want that too, but that can't be achieved if hundreds of thousands more are dying and millions more a living with long covid. How can a business function properly if regularly employees are dying, going off sick or dealing with long covid? How can we expect people to return to mixing and going about their every day lives if they know there was a growing chance of coming into contact with someone who could give them a virus that could kill them or leave them with chronic disease that would ruin their quality of life?

You are also wrong to think the lockdowns are only to protect the old and the vulnerable because long covid seems to be affecting younger people more than the elderly. Therefore, do we really want to create a generation suffering with chronic fatigue, muscle pain, brain fog, anxiety and depression and an increased chance of developing heart problems and dementia? Lockdowns protect the young more than the elderly because they have more of their lives yet to live.

The solution isn't repeated lockdowns but to get as many people vaccinated as possible and implement an effective test, trace and isolate programme and then we can go back to living our lives safely and without fear but until we get to that point, we have to maintain social distance and have other restrictions to control the virus spread.

I didn't answer you're question because it was a loaded nonsense seeking self-reassurance and validation for your own viewpoint, I'm here to have a discussion not pat you on the back and tell you're you're right for falling for the government's indoctrinate propaganda so hard. I do think it's okay that when the death rate is as low as it has been in recent weeks, we restore liberty to society. It's not a choice between that and 'letting hundreds of thousands die. but frankly hundreds of thousands is a insignificant number compared to the millions who died for the freedoms that are now being stripped away from us in British wars. All the money spent on furlough should have been spent on recruiting doctors and nurses and building hospitals.

It's not a right wing view of the role of the state. It's the view of the role of the state that existed in this country for centuries until post-war socialism introduced the concept of nannyism. It's compulsory to be present in the education system or in training until 18, that doesn't make it compulsory to engage with it, we've give kids the freedom to make their own mistakes, why on earth do we now think it's unreasonable to give adults those freedoms. Courts can only subpoena witnesses if the victim chooses to report the crime in the first place. And no we don't have a responsibility to look after each other, if you think the government's pitiful welfare system that stops people from dying at most looks after people, you're an idiot. Many of us instead choose to donate to charity in order to make up for the state's failings on that score, but still have or money robbed by the state in order to fund billion pound covid contracts to no use to anyone - you're trying to justify the way a right wing state such as ours operates on the basis of socialist principles that it pretends to uphold but has abandoned - the two are not compatible.

Covid rates are slightly more prevalent in younger people as they mix more. However the number of under 50s with no pre-existing conditions dying of Covid is incredibly low. The number of young people hospitalised with covid is relatively low, although some may suffer severe effects it's hardly a generation of people - unlike the generation of boderline suicidal unemployed teenagers and young adults we've created. It's not Covid that affects young people it's most, it's the governments response to it and the resulting unemployment and mental health crisis that affects them the most.

The greatest con of an authoritarian regime that seeks to control a population is to convince that population it seeks to look after them. The overwhelming majority elderly and most of the vulnerable have already been vaccinated - so if that's the solution, why the f**k should we suffer any more days of lockdowns?
 

ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

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You didn't answer any of my questions so I assume your answer would be yes, you do think it's ok to allow the virus to rip through the population and kill hundreds of thousands more people and leave a life long legacy of long covid on millions of other survivors.

Your view of the role of the state appears to be a right-wing one seeing everyone acting individually rather than as a society working to a common good which is the opposite to my socialist viewpoint so we see the issue from different perspectives. However, factually many of the things you said are wrong. We don't have a choice whether or not to participate in the criminal justice system as courts can subpoena witnesses, we don't have choice whether to participate in the education system as it's compulsory to the age of 18. We all contribute and take out of public services to different amounts depending on our individual circumstances at different points in our lives. As a society we have a responsibility to look after each other and to be looked after by each other.

I agree that millions have had their livelihoods destroyed by lockdowns, I'm one of them, but what about the millions of people whose lives have been destroyed by the covid virus because they have lost loved ones or they are now facing a diminished life dealing with long covid or caring for someone with that condition?

I agree with you that it's about restoring life and liberty and preventing long term deprivation, I want that too, but that can't be achieved if hundreds of thousands more are dying and millions more a living with long covid. How can a business function properly if regularly employees are dying, going off sick or dealing with long covid? How can we expect people to return to mixing and going about their every day lives if they know there was a growing chance of coming into contact with someone who could give them a virus that could kill them or leave them with chronic disease that would ruin their quality of life?

You are also wrong to think the lockdowns are only to protect the old and the vulnerable because long covid seems to be affecting younger people more than the elderly. Therefore, do we really want to create a generation suffering with chronic fatigue, muscle pain, brain fog, anxiety and depression and an increased chance of developing heart problems and dementia? Lockdowns protect the young more than the elderly because they have more of their lives yet to live.

The solution isn't repeated lockdowns but to get as many people vaccinated as possible and implement an effective test, trace and isolate programme and then we can go back to living our lives safely and without fear but until we get to that point, we have to maintain social distance and have other restrictions to control the virus spread.

I’m sorry but When did being anti let’s not have our freedoms taken away by Tin pot dictators become right wing? Are you not aware of what this government has passed through law in the past year?

The whole “let’s pull through together” was in lockdown one, we’re staring at the barrel of lockdown 4, where people’s mental health is at an all time low, and we are no where near back to normality than we were back in March 2020.

Things that a year ago were once conspiracy theories are now becoming a reality, vaccine passports and taking away our civil liberties.

We can no longer protests that human right has been taken away using Covid as an excuse, so the government can enact any change they like and we the public are supposed to shut up and put up or else face ten years in prison for daring to speak out against it!

When did it become “right wing” to care about people’s mental health, people’s financial state, raising the fact that lockdowns make people poorer, there have been job losses, store branch of dept stores closing down permanently, rising unemployment, surely those are left wing concerns are they not? Or are you so authoritarian left that anything right of Beverage report is considered right wing?

A 15 year old boy committed suicide because he could no longer cope with lockdown, and this is when the light is supposedly at the end of the tunnel, the damage we are doing to the young is unforgivable, it won’t be the old who will have to live in a world without freedoms it’ll be youngsters having that grim future.

I have never denied the severity of this virus, I personally along with many others have abided by the rules, kept my distance, however with millions being vaccinated we shouldn’t even be considering lockdown 4, we should be making steps toward normality so that by January 2022, enough vulnerable people would have been vaccinated and we can get back to normal.
 
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Ukdallasfan

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However, factually many of the things you said are wrong. We don't have a choice whether or not to participate in the criminal justice system as courts can subpoena witnesses, we don't have choice whether to participate in the education system as it's compulsory to the age of 18.
Subpoenas don’t exist in the English criminal system. They apply in civil courts and are now known as witness summonses. You can be compelled to give evidence in the criminal
Courts with sanctions for non-appearance. Education in the UK is compulsory to age 16 not 18.
 

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Subpoenas don’t exist in the English criminal system. They apply in civil courts and are now known as witness summonses. You can be compelled to give evidence in the criminal
Courts with sanctions for non-appearance. Education in the UK is compulsory to age 16 not 18.
You're correct, the term subpoena is no longer used in the English legal system however, witnesses can be summoned to court in a criminal or civil case and someone can be compelled to produce documents or other items relevant to a case.

It used to be 16 but the law was changed a while ago making it compulsory for young people to remain in education or training until the age of 18.
 

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I didn't answer you're question because it was a loaded nonsense seeking self-reassurance and validation for your own viewpoint, I'm here to have a discussion not pat you on the back and tell you're you're right for falling for the government's indoctrinate propaganda so hard. I do think it's okay that when the death rate is as low as it has been in recent weeks, we restore liberty to society. It's not a choice between that and 'letting hundreds of thousands die. but frankly hundreds of thousands is a insignificant number compared to the millions who died for the freedoms that are now being stripped away from us in British wars. All the money spent on furlough should have been spent on recruiting doctors and nurses and building hospitals.

It's not a right wing view of the role of the state. It's the view of the role of the state that existed in this country for centuries until post-war socialism introduced the concept of nannyism. It's compulsory to be present in the education system or in training until 18, that doesn't make it compulsory to engage with it, we've give kids the freedom to make their own mistakes, why on earth do we now think it's unreasonable to give adults those freedoms. Courts can only subpoena witnesses if the victim chooses to report the crime in the first place. And no we don't have a responsibility to look after each other, if you think the government's pitiful welfare system that stops people from dying at most looks after people, you're an idiot. Many of us instead choose to donate to charity in order to make up for the state's failings on that score, but still have or money robbed by the state in order to fund billion pound covid contracts to no use to anyone - you're trying to justify the way a right wing state such as ours operates on the basis of socialist principles that it pretends to uphold but has abandoned - the two are not compatible.

Covid rates are slightly more prevalent in younger people as they mix more. However the number of under 50s with no pre-existing conditions dying of Covid is incredibly low. The number of young people hospitalised with covid is relatively low, although some may suffer severe effects it's hardly a generation of people - unlike the generation of boderline suicidal unemployed teenagers and young adults we've created. It's not Covid that affects young people it's most, it's the governments response to it and the resulting unemployment and mental health crisis that affects them the most.

The greatest con of an authoritarian regime that seeks to control a population is to convince that population it seeks to look after them. The overwhelming majority elderly and most of the vulnerable have already been vaccinated - so if that's the solution, why the f*** should we suffer any more days of lockdowns?
My point was that right-wing conservatism is about individualism whereas socialism is about doing what's best for society as a whole. Your argument is about individual freedoms whereas I'm arguing for what is collectively best for the population.

You say my questions were "nonsense" well here are the facts:

1. If we don't take measures to control the virus it will rip through the population. Existing vaccines are ineffective against the current South African and/or the Brazilian variants and people who have already had Covid can be re-infected with the new variant. If you want all restrictions lifted then you have to accept the virus will spread exponentially.

2. It the virus is allowed to spread uncontrolled and it has a fatality rate of 1% then potentially hundreds of thousands of more people could die. That's what you would have to accept if there were no Covid control measures.

3. Long Covid affects young people as well as old and can affect people who initially have an asymptomatic infection. About 10% of people who have a Covid infection will develop long Covid. If we take no action to control Covid infections then millions of people would develop long Covid with symptoms including chronic fatigue, depression, anxiety, muscle pain and heart problems You correctly say that Covid infection rates are higher amongst younger people so potentially the mental health issues resulting from long Covid could vastly exceed the mental health crisis caused by lockdown. Again, that is what you would have to accept for the population if you want to allow the virus to spread uncontrollably.
 

Ukdallasfan

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The age of compulsory education is 16. You may be confusing the right to State benefits making it quasi compulsory to stay in education until 18 but there is no legal obligation to remain in education after 16. Apprenticeships begin at age 16- hybrid between work and education. However, if you are 16 and don’t want to continue in education or training you can’t be forced to. I have a law degree and have higher rights of audience in court in England and Wales for thirty years.
 
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