Joan Crawford: Not the Girl-Next-Door

Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
LV
8
 
Awards
21
Judy Johns quotes her teacher, Nelle Sliter, "from Crawford as a client" for the date 23 March 1903 and time 10 pm.

Christina quotes another astrologer for 1904. If it is 1904, that makes Joan and Bette both Sun in Aries/Scorpio Rising/Moon in Gemini, they'd have the exact same key horoscopic make up, as if both women were occupying the same space!

But I don't think so.

Bette%2BDavis%2Band%2BJoan%2BCrawford%2Bin%2B%2527What%2BEver%2BHappened%2Bto%2BBaby%2BJane%2527%252C%2B1962.jpg
 

ginnyfan

Telly Talk Active Member
LV
0
 
Awards
6
This is a great thread and theme. Joan's fascinating career can be divided into several phrases: MGM years, Warner years, 50s melodrama years and finally 60s Grande Guignol years. Most seem to agree that the 1945-1952 Warner period was her peak. What is so interesting is just how completely different her MGM and WB phases/personas are. It's also a testament to the studio system and shows how every studio had its own, distinctive look, feel and style.

Joan made her Warner debut in 1944, in Hollywood Canteen, a Bette Davis vehicle dedicated to the war effort, along with dozens of other Warner stars and contract players. It was a nice way to welcome Joan, but her future was still uncertain at that point.



This was followed by a spectacular career comeback, when she had an amazing hat trick with Mildred, Humoresque and Possessed, all of them critical and box office successes. I think she looked the best in Humoresque, that movie is stunning visually and Joan's beauty seems to peak there. The final scene of her walk to death on the beach is haunting and inspired Madonna's Power of Goodbye video.



Joan's loan to FOX, for Daisy Kenyon in 1947, is a sort of middle point of her Warner years and represents a bit of a departure. I love this movie and it's a shame most people don't know about it or don't really care. I saw it 2 times and it strikes me as a bit of an oddity, in both Joan's career and 40s Hollywood. Joan plays a very modern, independent woman, who almost dates two guys at the same time and is torn between them. It's quite mature in its depiction of relationships and it's certainly not your typical 40s melodrama, there's more to this movie and some of the small twists and turns are quite surprising. In a way it feels like 1940s, post war Sex and the City. I hope some of you give it another chance.



Back to Warner's lot, and the second phase of Joan's era which is, as already noted by many here, seedier, trashier and in a way, more fun. Now she's clearly a bit older but she's still playing young women, she's been around the block and is damaged, but still wants to be a romantic ingenue. These sort of contrasts and contradictions are what makes these movies even more interesting. Flamingo Road is a fan favorite, Joan goes blond (as seen in my avatar), playing a small town carnival dancer (wtf) fighting the fat man himself , Sydney Greenstreet. Sort of a trailer-trash Mildred!



The Damned Don't Cry!!! It's 1950, and Joan is about to experience a career highlight. It's not necessary her best movie, but it's certainly a culmination of everything she ever did in movies, all the struggles, all the rags to riches stories, all the criminal hijinks, romantic melodramas and bitchslap moments. It all seem to collide perfectly in this movie which is a must see for any Joan fan.



After such an exciting height , it's hard to keep it up, and for the next two years Joan is on a slow downward slide at Warners. Goodbye My Fancy, is actually good imo, I enjoyed my one viewing of it. Maybe cause it's something so different and normal, after all the drama of her previous movies. It was time to relax a bit and apparently it's the kind of movie Joan wanted to do more of.



This Woman is Dangerous!!! But she's not damned.... and she's a bit tired.... And that's how this movie feels like. It attempts to go back to the criminal, edgy Joan but it just can't match her previous efforts. It's still a completely fine Crawford vehicle but at this point it's clearly time to move on. Joan knew this and so she did, leaving Warners and starting another successful phase in the 50s.




An honorable mention goes, of course, to Harriet Craig in 1950. Another loan out, this time to Columbia and perhaps Joan's scariest character ever. Not just that menacing hairstyle but the psycho inside is sure to leave you wondering.....



.... and lets not forget Warners also gave us Joan in glorious technicolor! It's a Great Feeling!

 
Last edited:

Crimson

Telly Talk Enthusiast
LV
2
 
Awards
9
I started my way through YOU MUST REMEMBER THIS podcast series on Joan: "Six Degrees of Joan Crawford".

The host opened with an interesting observation: that Joan's career was a near parallel to old Hollywood. It's not precise -- Hollywood had been around for a couple years before Joan arrived, and her career limped a long for a couple years after the collapse of the studio system -- but more than any other star I can think of, Joan's career was lockstep with what we now regard as the Golden Age of Hollywood. It's almost poetic.
 

darkshadows38

Telly Talk Star
LV
1
 
Awards
7
actually hollywood had been around quite awhile if recall it started in New York Originally than in i think like (1914) or (1915) i think? they bought the land in California and built the studios there. i think i want to say Paramount was the 1st one? they had been in Hollywood for about a decade or so already when Joan did her 1st film in (1925) even though she started out as an extra or a body double. i think her 1st film she was in she was a body double if i recall. there's a podcast about her? i had no idea
 

Crimson

Telly Talk Enthusiast
LV
2
 
Awards
9
I enjoyed the "Six Degrees of Joan Crawford" immensely; the host presented a balanced and nuanced view of Crawford's life and career. Tidbit: she claims Joan shaved those years off her life not for career purposes, but to better align her age with Douglas Fairbanks, Jr., so as not to appear to be a cradle robber.

It's a bit of a relief to see the one-note caricature of Joan -- caused far more by Faye than Christina -- losing its hold. For younger fans of classic films, MOMMIE DEAREST just doesn't have the same impact as it did to the generation first exposed to it; the movie is now further in the past than MILDRED PIERCE was when MD was released! I suspect the film will ultimately do more damage to Dunaway's legacy than Joan's, which seems rather karmic.
 

ClassyCo

Telly Talk Warrior
LV
5
 
Awards
11
I started my way through YOU MUST REMEMBER THIS podcast series on Joan: "Six Degrees of Joan Crawford".

The host opened with an interesting observation: that Joan's career was a near parallel to old Hollywood. It's not precise -- Hollywood had been around for a couple years before Joan arrived, and her career limped a long for a couple years after the collapse of the studio system -- but more than any other star I can think of, Joan's career was lockstep with what we now regard as the Golden Age of Hollywood. It's almost poetic.
I need to make time to watch these. I'll probably just download them to my laptop so I can watch them at my leisure (which isn't often).​
 

ClassyCo

Telly Talk Warrior
LV
5
 
Awards
11
They're podcasts, so audio only; unlike the Youtube video series, BKR. I've been listening to them in my car recently. I think I'll be moving into the season dedicated to Karloff & Lugosi next.
I skipped right over the word "podcast" in the earlier post. That might make them a little less appealing to me personally.​
 

Crimson

Telly Talk Enthusiast
LV
2
 
Awards
9
I'm not sure I was aware that Crawford had danced with Astaire on screen. No Ginger Rogers, but still better than some of Astaire's other partners.


I'm getting closer to a full dive into Joan's 1930s work; I think there's more variety there than I've assumed.
 

darkshadows38

Telly Talk Star
LV
1
 
Awards
7
there 's some good stuff in their and there's some really bad ones in there too. Check out as i may have said before Montana Moon (1930) that film oh wow is it bad
 

ClassyCo

Telly Talk Warrior
LV
5
 
Awards
11
I'm not sure I was aware that Crawford had danced with Astaire on screen. No Ginger Rogers, but still better than some of Astaire's other partners.


I'm getting closer to a full dive into Joan's 1930s work; I think there's more variety there than I've assumed.
This is from DANCING LADY, the 1933 musical Crawford starred in with Clark Gable. Fred Astaire had a minor role as himself. This was before his partnership with Ginger Rogers, and probably the peak of Crawford's fame in the early-'30s.

1627932272956.png

I'd say you definitely need to give more of Crawford's '30s movies a shot. Sure, a lot of them stay inside that rags-to-riches formula, but if you can get past that, you'll be in the clear. POSSESSED (the 1931 version) is actually a very good early Crawford-Gable vehicle. LOVE ON THE RUN and THE WOMEN are also good movies of hers from that time period. She was very beautiful during this time period, and she made some of her biggest hits then too.​
 

ClassyCo

Telly Talk Warrior
LV
5
 
Awards
11
Bette seemed out of her element in her few comedies. In fairness, I suppose, neither ever had a great comedy script or director; perhaps if they had worked with a Howard Hawks or Preston Sturges, they would have risen to the occasion. But, based on the evidence we have, they both appeared leaden in comedy.
I have watched Davis in THE BRIDE CAME C.O.D. and THE MAN WHO CAME TO DINNER, and I'd say she does well enough with the material given, but comedy is certainly not her forte. I must give her credit for wanting to diversify, but she was clearly out of her element in those roles. Like you said, she could deliver a witty line on the right occasion, but her efforts in straight out comedy just falls short. She never quite reaches the right marks.​
I'm digging this back up because....

On another website, which shall remain nameless, there's a member there staunchly defending Davis' attempts at comedy. Their theory is that because she was able to give funny interviews and toss a funny line here and there. My reasoning is that "funny" people might not always be able to "play" funny. In the words of Bea Arthur, some "marvelous actors" sometimes become "creatures from another planet" when they're told they're playing comedy. As a performance, it doesn't come naturally for them. I often think about the old MAVERICK television series. As you may know, that series rotated James Garner and Jack Kelly as the star of each episode, with Garner's episodes having more humor, while Kelly's episodes were more dramatic. One producer of the show said that in real-life the men were the opposite of their on-screen portrayals: Garner was very serious, whereas Kelly was more of a goofball.

In short... Not all "funny" people can "play" funny well and sometimes serious people become a comic before the cameras. And while I won't say Davis was horrific at comedy, it certainly wasn't her forte. She was more at home in the deep end, practically drowning in her tear-jerkers.

1639667524721.png

This discussion about Davis and her comedies came forth in a conversation about THE MAN WHO CAME TO DINNER coming to Blu-ray. That movie, along with THE BRIDE CAME C.O.D. (which is where the above picture comes from), is one of the few comedies Davis did at the start of the 1940s to "shake things up" at a time she was making such heavy-handed melodramas like THE LETTER and THE LITTLE FOXES.​
 

Toni

Maximum Member
LV
11
 
Awards
24
Last night I watched a Crawford (so to say): "Forsaking All Others", a 1934 comedy also starring Clark Gable & Robert Montgomery, and with others like Billie Burke and Rosalind Russell in minor roles. I had never seen it and enjoyed it so much! It´s not too long and Crawford wears some fascinating gowns by Adrian. She looks perfect and her acting is flawless: no doubt she already knew how Gable functioned (in more senses than one!).

There are also a few things that the recently created censoring Code didn´t seem to bother:
- In one of the scenes, two of the characters pose as a gay couple who wants to spend a weekend in a cabin in the forest.
- In another, these characters enjoy the pleasures of a bathhouse!
- Then, in a couple of scenes, one of the male stars gets out of the shower and his valet gives him the towel!
- Also, there are some glimpses of the future: for example, in one scene, an angry Crawford uses an axe ("Strait-jacket", anyone?).

All in all, it is a funny, elegant, well-acted comedy that is not a classic, but it was written by none other than J.L. Mankiewicz, the man who "brought us" "All About Eve"!


1642803371073.png
Reasonable resemblance? Mama likes?

 
Last edited:

Toni

Maximum Member
LV
11
 
Awards
24
I'm digging this back up because....

On another website, which shall remain nameless, there's a member there staunchly defending Davis' attempts at comedy. Their theory is that because she was able to give funny interviews and toss a funny line here and there. My reasoning is that "funny" people might not always be able to "play" funny. In the words of Bea Arthur, some "marvelous actors" sometimes become "creatures from another planet" when they're told they're playing comedy. As a performance, it doesn't come naturally for them. I often think about the old MAVERICK television series. As you may know, that series rotated James Garner and Jack Kelly as the star of each episode, with Garner's episodes having more humor, while Kelly's episodes were more dramatic. One producer of the show said that in real-life the men were the opposite of their on-screen portrayals: Garner was very serious, whereas Kelly was more of a goofball.

In short... Not all "funny" people can "play" funny well and sometimes serious people become a comic before the cameras. And while I won't say Davis was horrific at comedy, it certainly wasn't her forte. She was more at home in the deep end, practically drowning in her tear-jerkers.

View attachment 33143

This discussion about Davis and her comedies came forth in a conversation about THE MAN WHO CAME TO DINNER coming to Blu-ray. That movie, along with THE BRIDE CAME C.O.D. (which is where the above picture comes from), is one of the few comedies Davis did at the start of the 1940s to "shake things up" at a time she was making such heavy-handed melodramas like THE LETTER and THE LITTLE FOXES.​

This week I also watched another Cagney-Davis comedy wannabe called "Jimmy the Gent". It wasn´t funny but hey, it was so short that I didn´t mind it. Davis stole the show from beginning to end, with an apparently supporting role that is not such! She elevates over the movie as if she didn´t really care what kind of trash she has been assigned to, and her acting is so contemporary, so 21st century, that at some point I thought: "Wow, she makes me think of Susan Sarandon..." Oh irony of ironies... Her gowns look almost Sci-fi, and her eyelashes are as fake as her blonde wig (or was it her real hair?). Of course, it´s Davis who I am talking about, but she doesn´t share many scenes with Cagney, who is the main star here. The plot is nonsense, and only Mayo Methot, Bogart´s ex-wife, really seems to be able to chew and spit some of her co-stars in the middle of that farce. Good for any (bored) Davis fan (I guess).

1642804636156.png 1642804662413.png
1642804740977.png
 

ClassyCo

Telly Talk Warrior
LV
5
 
Awards
11
as fake as her blonde wig (or was it her real hair?)
When Bette first came to Warner's in 1932, she was practically forced to bleach her hair. The studio wanted to turn her into their sex symbol, or so the publicity stills would have one think. Bette's story goes that she secretly had her hair dyed back the "ash blonde" she had always been and it was one whole year before studio head Jack Warner noticed it.​
 

J. R.'s Piece

Telly Talk Star
LV
2
 
Awards
8
Last night I watched a Crawford (so to say): "Forsaking All Others", a 1934 comedy also starring Clark Gable & Robert Montgomery, and with others like Billie Burke and Rosalind Russell in minor roles. I had never seen it and enjoyed it so much! It´s not too long and Crawford wears some fascinating gowns by Adrian. She looks perfect and her acting is flawless: no doubt she already knew how Gable functioned (in more senses than one!).

There are also a few things that the recently created censoring Code didn´t seem to bother:
- In one of the scenes, two of the characters pose as a gay couple who wants to spend a weekend in a cabin in the forest.
- In another, these characters enjoy the pleasures of a bathhouse!
- Then, in a couple of scenes, one of the male stars gets out of the shower and his valet gives him the towel!
- Also, there are some glimpses of the future: for example, in one scene, an angry Crawford uses an axe ("Strait-jacket", anyone?).

All in all, it is a funny, elegant, well-acted comedy that is not a classic, but it was written by none other than J.L. Mankiewicz, the man who "brought us" "All About Eve"!


View attachment 34414
Reasonable resemblance? Mama likes?

There is a look at it here:
 

Toni

Maximum Member
LV
11
 
Awards
24
Top