Appreciating Charlie's Angels

Who's your favorite Angel or Angelic trio?

  • Sabrina Duncan (Kate Jackson)

    Votes: 9 19.6%
  • Jill Munroe (Farrah Fawcett)

    Votes: 4 8.7%
  • Kelly Garrett (Jaclyn Smith)

    Votes: 16 34.8%
  • Kris Munroe (Cheryl Ladd)

    Votes: 3 6.5%
  • Tiffany Welles (Shelley Hack)

    Votes: 3 6.5%
  • Julie Rogers (Tanya Roberts)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Season 1 trio (Sabrina, Jill, and Kelly)

    Votes: 16 34.8%
  • Seasons 2 and 3 trio (Sabrina, Kelly, and Kris)

    Votes: 17 37.0%
  • Season 4 trio (Kelly, Kris, and Tiffany)

    Votes: 3 6.5%
  • Season 5 trio (Kelly, Kris, and Julie)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    46

Crimson

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It's lovely to see them reunite and reflect on the series and their relationships so warmly, but - from the way these videos are cut at least - the "sisterhood" and "the power of girlfriends" angle is just too cloying for me (and probably revisionist considering how the series was viewed at the time)

Much like Lynda Carter's interviews about WONDER WOMAN, I suppose the Angels feel obligated to add some legitimacy and depth to shows that really had neither. I'd be willing to believe POLICE WOMAN had some substance -- I've never seen it -- and I could probably have my arm twisted that maybe THE BIONIC WOMAN did too, but WONDER WOMAN and CHARLIE'S ANGELS were frivolities.

But I guess, "It was a bit of Aaron Spelling fluff that was popular because hair and boobs" doesn't land quite as well as feminist revisionism.
 

Spooky Owl!

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Much like Lynda Carter's interviews about WONDER WOMAN, I suppose the Angels feel obligated to add some legitimacy and depth to shows that really had neither. I'd be willing to believe POLICE WOMAN had some substance -- I've never seen it -- and I could probably have my arm twisted that maybe THE BIONIC WOMAN did too, but WONDER WOMAN and CHARLIE'S ANGELS were frivolities.

But I guess, "It was a bit of Aaron Spelling fluff that was popular because hair and boobs" doesn't land quite as well as feminist revisionism.

The feminists had problems with all the '70s lady crime series. WONDER WOMAN and BIONIC WOMAN were too fantastical to be taken seriously by the activagists, and ANGELS was too light and "sexy" (despite being ridiculously prim) and were accused of not seeming as if they could physically do the job (Gloria Steinem said that). Although Lindsay Wagner did win an Emmy.

But they had a special contempt for POLICE WOMAN -- perhaps because it had more pretentions of being a hard-nosed cop show (at least in the beginning) and because it was the first of the bunch. (And because the actress initially displayed an effortless carnality the small screen was unaccustomed to). The first season had some substance, but even that was more style over substance. But afterwards, it didn't matter: somewhere during Season 2, there was an effort to quell every single aspect of Angie Dickinson's performance to satisfy criticism that the character was overly sexualized. So Angie started to pleasantly walk through the remaining seasons deliberately trying not-to-mean-anything-too-much. And it killed the show. Their star had been bullied into phoning it in (probably mostly Angie's fault, but she took the bait). Yet the criticism, of the wrong kind, continued (i.e., "Angie is constantly playing at whoredom"). And, yes, she did get rescued to the point of absurdity. But PW started to dissolve with its star's full star quality removed.

The feminists didn't find a female cop show they liked until CAGNEY & LACEY, a good show but one where the actresses had "big cans" and, today, are remembered as lesbians. Even though they weren't.

1200


Chris2 said:
‘ve seen speculation that Cheryl was not as nice behind the scenes as her public persona would lead us to believe and that Kate saw that on behavior on Satan’s School for Girls, so she was against Cheryl coming in from day one. There’s also been speculation that Cheryl had a relationship with Angels producer Ed Lakso which Kate did not like. And also that politically, Kate and Cheryl are polar opposites. Who knows?

Maybe. But Kate has a reputation away from AMGELS. There are staunch Joan Collins fans who insist they were on the set and that Linda Evans was a bitch and Joan was always incredibly professional.

As you say, who are we to believe??
 
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Soaplover

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Quite frankly, feminists seem like unhappy that were jealous of the female cop shows of the 70s because the women looked better than them and that men enjoyed watching. As attractive as Sharon Gless was, there was no way that feminists would be jealous of Gless/Daly as they were about the Charlie's Angels trios, Carter, etc.

And I've found if a feminist is complaining about something, then that something is worth checking out to see what all the fuss is about.
 

Spells & Karma

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Much like Lynda Carter's interviews about WONDER WOMAN, I suppose the Angels feel obligated to add some legitimacy and depth to shows that really had neither.

The feminists didn't find a female cop show they liked until CAGNEY & LACEY, a good show but one where the actresses had "big cans" and, today, are remembered as lesbians. Even though they weren't.


On these notes, Barney Rosenzweig recalls being brought in to fix Charlie's Angels ahead of broadcast by the embarrassed producers... only for Aaron Spelling to pedal hastily back on the brief when it hit the air and was an instant hit:


Barney Rosenzweig said:
Based on what I knew about the genre - of the private eye melodrama - and based on my new understanding of the women's movement... they were making a show about women that women would like to see, and they were risking offending the very people who they were making the show for... As you have them now... they're like hookers. They just do what they're told.
 

Spooky Owl!

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Get Christie Love! pipped Police Woman by two days.

Yeah, but nobody saw GET CHRISTIE LOVE! I kind of liked it -- it was kind of funny. But it never got any ratings (bad time slots) and the star was allegedly a problem, soon consumed by the same fate that awaited Ted Baxter's brother and his brother, Vaughn Leland.

If she wasn't murdered for her activism.

Pity.

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Spells & Karma

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And the bastard didn't invite him to lunch? :mad:

I suppose he needed his producers to be hungry.

It does seem like a power move... and a cinematic one as well. I can practically picture the young women laying out the silverware and fluffing Aaron's napkin, with Barney watching from a low chair that leaves only his eyes peeking over the mahogany desk.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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Quite frankly, feminists seem like unhappy that were jealous of the female cop shows of the 70s because the women looked better than them and that men enjoyed watching. As attractive as Sharon Gless was, there was no way that feminists would be jealous of Gless/Daly as they were about the Charlie's Angels trios, Carter, etc.

And I've found if a feminist is complaining about something, then that something is worth checking out to see what all the fuss is about.
When comparing eras, there are always some complications and difficulties in comparing them by more recent content. It is best to try to evaluate the shows in their given timeframe, and within the context of the entertainment business (and at the end of the day, it is a business) It can be argued that CA was a step forward, at least in the sense that three women were front and center on a successful show that became iconic. Attractive leading ladies has been, and still is, the practice in casting, overwhelmingly, unless older demographics are the target audience.

"Cagney and Lacey" was a better written show for the the two leads, but IMHO it paled by comparison to "Hill Street Blues" as far as a
realistic portrayal of a police action/workplace drama, not to mention "Police Story" . "Police Woman" with Angie Dickinson didn't run as long, but that was also more grounded IMHO.
But again, C&L, as well as "Police Woman" were steps forward.

"The Bionic Woman" as a gender reversed "Six Million Dollar Man" was an above average show, and again, a step forward.
Lindsay Wagner was very good as the lead.

With regard to C&L, I seem to remember hearing somewhere that Tyne Daly was the original choice for
Claudia" on "Dynasty" Kind of a shame that 'Dynasty" missed out on arguably the best prime time actress of that era.
 

Spells & Karma

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This Jaclyn interview popped up in my YouTube suggestions today (I'm guessing I tickled the algorithms with some of the Paley Center videos):


Interesting that she's quite open here about being closer to Kate and Farrah than any of the actresses from later seasons, which she puts down to the three of them having bonded through the experience of launching the series together (to add balance she also mentions having just had Cheryl over at the time of recording).




With regard to C&L, I seem to remember hearing somewhere that Tyne Daly was the original choice for
Claudia" on "Dynasty"

I hadn't heard or read that before. I did read that Michele Lee was CBS's choice to play Lacey in the original telemovie, so perhaps if that had happened...

I'm glad it worked out the way it did, though.
 

ClassyCo

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Being the CHARLIE'S ANGELS fan that I am, I have naturally heard the stories about Kate Jackson and Cheryl Ladd not getting along. Kate herself said in an interview with Joan Rivers that she and Cheryl "were never that close", while commenting that the original was very close, with she and Jaclyn being the closest. One of the show's producers said that "some days Kate was nice to Cheryl, and some days she wasn't", and said that Jaclyn was "scared to be nice to Cheryl" because Kate would get mad at her about it. Objectively, Kate doesn't seem like she'd be the easiest or nicest person to work with, and I'd imagine her personality would be even harder to get along with when you're the one replacing one of her closer friends.
 

Spooky Owl!

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Jaclyn was "scared to be nice to Cheryl" because Kate would get mad at her about it.

Well, scared to be too nice to Cheryl, I would think. But they all say Kate was an unhappy girl. And that most of the problems the show had on the set were because of Jackson.

I voted Sabrina my favorite angel. But the stories about the actress are just endless. Driven and neurotic.

And, frankly, you can see it on her.

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Soaplover

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I always viewed Jaclyn as sort of a peace-maker. I also think once Jackson left after season 3 that Jaclyn/Cheryl became closer because they had to weather the final two seasons together with two different replacements for Jackson.

Over the years, I've seen Jaclyn/Cheryl in interviews today and the two are pretty close... but Jackson was never at those interviews if Cheryl was there as opposed to when Farrah was alive.. you saw the original trio together at reunions and tributes. I'm sure Jackson has softened to Cheryl over the years.. but I also think that she also wishes Farrah could be there in 2026 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the show.

I did happen to watch a few season 4 episodes on Tubi last night.. and the show was pretty decent though Tiffany was more in the background with Kelly and Kris being the main focus. As these were earlier season 4, i wonder if Tiffany eventually gets more focus as the season carries on?
 

ClassyCo

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I did happen to watch a few season 4 episodes on Tubi last night.. and the show was pretty decent though Tiffany was more in the background with Kelly and Kris being the main focus. As these were earlier season 4, i wonder if Tiffany eventually gets more focus as the season carries on?
Tiffany isn't at the forefront early into Season 4, presumably because the writers/producers worried Shelley Hack couldn't act. Tiffany is slowly edged into the main focus and is even at the center of her own episodes.

"Angels on Campus" (S4, E11) is Tiffany's first time in the spotlight when she goes back to visit her old sorority.

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Spells & Karma

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The frustrating thing with so many media outlets' involvement is I've yet to find a straight, uncut interview.

Frustration over. The full PaleyFest Q&A has landed:


Seeing it in context, it's clear that the "girl power" element was in the editing. The full interview is very balanced and easy to watch and quite fun (Jaclyn on the original plan to have a blonde, brunette and redhead: "And they thought that was inclusive").

Police Woman and Get Christie Love get mentions. As does Satan's School For Girls. And I don't think I knew that Cheryl turned down The Burning Bed before it was offered to Farrah.
 

ClassyCo

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I did happen to watch a few season 4 episodes on Tubi last night.. and the show was pretty decent though Tiffany was more in the background with Kelly and Kris being the main focus. As these were earlier season 4, i wonder if Tiffany eventually gets more focus as the season carries on?
Piggy-backing off of my reply from yesterday....

While Season 4 does have some decent-to-good shows (some might even be very good), I'd argue that there are two primary issues with the season as a whole. First, the mistake of sidelining Shelley Hack so early into the season, a pivotal time when they should've been trying to get her comfortable inside the angelic trio and developing her personality. Second, there are multiple episodes throughout the season that focus heavily on just one angel while the other two are off somewhere else and not directly involved in the primary story. That lessens the group effort of the core trio and eliminates their on-screen chemistry and friendship.

Cheryl Ladd has said, on numerous occasions, that "it certainly wasn't all Shelley's fault" when questioned about Shelley Hack's arrival, treatment during her tenure, and eventual dismissal. Ladd has also commented that the producers and writers didn't seem terribly concerned on how Tiffany was supposed to "fit in" with Kelly and Kris and the Townsend Agency in general. Hack, as it seems, wasn't concerned at all that the producers dismissed her after one season, saying, "I never expected to be there for more than a year, and I wasn't." The on-screen chemistry just never "clicks" during Season 4, with one reviewer saying, "You didn't get the feeling these girls hung out together outside of the office." That says a lot when you look at the two previous trios.

Even so, I've always defended Shelley Hack and her run as Tiffany. Once they finally decided to start writing for her, I thought she was a serviceable and even good addition and successor to Kate Jackson, even if their were kinks that never quite got ironed out like they needed to be. I also don't believe it was a good idea for the producers to can Hack after just one season, but they took the opportunity to blame everything on Shelley, fire her, and crank up the publicity machine for a brand new angel hunt for what would be the fifth and final season. As it were, Tanya Roberts remains my least favorite of the angels, with her modeling career standing in for police academy training throwing even the opening narration off balance.
 

Piggyrella Sanderson

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True enough. But I liked it, too. There are a bunch of episodes on YouTube but no DVD release (except for the pilot telefilm).

Me too! With such an opening and theme, you knew what it would ensue, and it was quite enjoyable to me, at least when I was a (little) child.

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PS: Miss Piggy asked me to mention that Teresa was her first power idol. Can you see her influence from this pic on her (our) current avatar...
 
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Piggyrella Sanderson

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Frustration over. The full PaleyFest Q&A has landed:


Seeing it in context, it's clear that the "girl power" element was in the editing. The full interview is very balanced and easy to watch and quite fun (Jaclyn on the original plan to have a blonde, brunette and redhead: "And they thought that was inclusive").

Police Woman and Get Christie Love get mentions. As does Satan's School For Girls. And I don't think I knew that Cheryl turned down The Burning Bed before it was offered to Farrah.

Did anyone notice how Kate Jackson passed on the host´s question about a role she might have played on "Dallas"? Who do you think she cold have played: Sue Ellen, Pam, or Miss Ellie (lol)?
Also, a big surprise about the "9 and a half weeks" that could have been with Jaclyn and John Travolta, which would probably disney-fied by both leads...
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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I thought that the character of Julie Rogers had a lot of potential, especially if introduced earlier in the series.
To some degree, Demi Moore as Madison seemed to be a similar character, enhanced by different motivations.
It would have been a different show, though. People wanted to see the three angels as friends
However, by season 5, CA had run its course, and nothing was going to help that
 
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