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Aside From Dynasty: The Joan Collins Thread

ClassyCo

Telly Talk Warrior
Joan Collins has had a career in show business spanning over seventy years. Most famous for playing villainous Alexis Colby on DYNASTY, she has appeared in countless other films and television shows over the course of her long career. She started her career in her native England, where she found work as a model and minor film actress. Collins came to America in 1954, and signed a contract with 20th Century-Fox, essentially to be the studio's alternative to MGM's Elizabeth Taylor.

And the rest, as they say, is history.
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Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
I thought she was black until a couple of episodes into DYNASTY.

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DallasFanForever

Telly Talk Supreme
Love her to death!! Always saw her as a terrific actress and a very attractive woman. I guess to me she’ll always be Alexis first and foremost and I’m ashamed to say I’m really not familiar with most of her films. So maybe this thread can enlighten me on some of her earlier work.
 

Crimson

Telly Talk Star
Joan probably has the most impressive "second act" of any Hollywood star. During her Hollywood youth, she was no more than a B-tier leading lady who had a fairly unspectacular vogue from the mid-50s to the very early-60s. After that, her career was basically crummy movies and TV guest spots. If DYNASTY hadn't come along, I think her career would look only slightly more impressive than, say, Sheree North.

Some stars hit it big relatively late. Dietrich was 30; Lucy & Mae were 40. But to become a superstar (and sex symbol) after 50 is mind-boggling.

I like Joan as a star; she plays the part to the hilt without being obnoxious about it. As an actress, I don't have much of an opinion. There's nothing on her filmography -- not even DYNASTY -- that I like.
 

ClassyCo

Telly Talk Warrior
When Collins first came to Fox, she was given a lead role in LORD VANITY, co-starring Robert Wagner. A few tests were filmed, but the film ultimately died on the drawing board and was never completed.

Then the studio assigned her to THE GIRL IN THE RED VELVET SWING, essentially replacing the temperamental Marilyn Monroe. As reported, the studio was fed up with Monroe's antics and decided to replace her, while some allege that the producers thought that Monroe, at twenty-nine, was too old for the role. Collins was more than happy to "step in for" Monroe. The movie co-starred Farley Granger, but ultimately received mixed critical reviews and underperformed at the box office.

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ClassyCo

Telly Talk Warrior
Joan probably has the most impressive "second act" of any Hollywood star. During her Hollywood youth, she was no more than a B-tier leading lady who had a fairly unspectacular vogue from the mid-50s to the very early-60s. After that, her career was basically crummy movies and TV guest spots. If DYNASTY hadn't come along, I think her career would look only slightly more impressive than, say, Sheree North.

Some stars hit it big relatively late. Dietrich was 30; Lucy & Mae were 40. But to become a superstar (and sex symbol) after 50 is mind-boggling.

I like Joan as a star; she plays the part to the hilt without being obnoxious about it. As an actress, I don't have much of an opinion. There's nothing on her filmography -- not even DYNASTY -- that I like.
If she hadn't got DYNASTY in her late 40s, then I'd definitely say you'd be right. She isn't much of an actress, with Alexis herself being nothing but soap opera caricature. Her career post-Alexis was just Joan as Alexis playing whomever.​

Similar to other threads, I figured I'd talk about the films Joan missed out on, or perhaps did in place of someone else.

LORD VANITY was supposed to be her picture at Fox in 1954. It was going to be a lavish 18-century costume drama with Robert Wagner cast as her co-star. There are a few tests of the film that exist, with glimpses even appearing in the A&E biography done on Collins. The film ultimately died on the drawing board, although I've been unable to get any information as to why.

Collins won the role of Alice in THE WAYWARD BUS in 1957 after former Fox star Linda Darnell had screen tested for the part. The studio apparently felt that Darnell, a big star for them in the 1940s, was past her prime, and therefore cast Collins in the part instead as a publicity strategy to fuel her career.

Her role in RALLY ROUND THE FLAG, BOYS in 1958 was originally intended for Jayne Mansfield. After "intense lobbying" from Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward, Mansfield was replaced with Collins. The two had co-starred together in THE WAYWARD BUS.

The biggest role Collins missed out on was Cleopatra. In the late 1950s, Fox began pre-production for a lavish version of CLEOPATRA. In 1959, it was touted that Collins would play the Egyptian queen and that Peter Finch and Stephen Boyd would be her co-stars. When the production costs began to escalate, however, the studio hedged their bets by replacing Collins with Elizabeth Taylor, then the most popular woman in movies. (As a side note, Joan did end up playing Cleopatra on an episode of FANTASY ISLAND.)​
 

Alexis

Telly Talk Superhero
If she hadn't got DYNASTY in her late 40s, then I'd definitely say you'd be right. She isn't much of an actress, with Alexis herself being nothing but soap opera caricature. Her career post-Alexis was just Joan as Alexis playing whomever.​
I don't think that's fair at all. Perhaps as the seasons rolled on it became that way, but when Joan steps into Dynasty in season 2 she gives some truly brilliant acting performances. Her introductory scene in the courtroom is just wonderful. She looks stunning and her choices as an actress in how she moves her face, her mannerisms and gestures are just brilliant. It's so well done, old Hollywood. She pulls focus, she takes that courtroom scene and by god does she act the shit out of it. Equally her scene with Joseph in the art studio. So sinister and villainous, showing her true colours, which are very dark. She plays with him like the spider and the fly, or a cat toying with the mouse it's going to devour. Her first scenes with Krystle are again, equally brilliant, there is electricity seething from her. All the niceties crumble away and the true nature of Alexis petty, bitchy, nasty and angry character reveals itself. It's beautifully done, and not any actress could have done what Joan did.

It's also not really accurate to call Joan's portrayal of Alexis a soap opera caricature when really it was something that hadn't been done yet. Sure there had been bitchy divas on the daytime soaps before, but I don't think any that were even close to what Alexis was. Dallas had been on a few years and there was no female on that show that even compared. She basically invented the big soap bitch.

Joan Collins is not the greatest actress that ever lived, but she's a very intelligent actress. It just seemed like a mixture of a great stroke of luck and hard work paid off for her when she got Dynasty. She really seemed to identify with Alexis and her backstory and her struggles to succeed and she seems to have channelled all of that into the role. There's no doubt that Joan added a lot of depth and light and shade to what was originally written on the page. Joan created the look, and added her own British/European sensibilities to the role. She added humour also which a lot of the other cast were unable/ not allowed to do.
 

ClassyCo

Telly Talk Warrior
I don't think that's fair at all. Perhaps as the seasons rolled on it became that way, but when Joan steps into Dynasty in season 2 she gives some truly brilliant acting performances. Her introductory scene in the courtroom is just wonderful. She looks stunning and her choices as an actress in how she moves her face, her mannerisms and gestures are just brilliant. It's so well done, old Hollywood. She pulls focus, she takes that courtroom scene and by god does she act the shit out of it. Equally her scene with Joseph in the art studio. So sinister and villainous, showing her true colours, which are very dark. She plays with him like the spider and the fly, or a cat toying with the mouse it's going to devour. Her first scenes with Krystle are again, equally brilliant, there is electricity seething from her. All the niceties crumble away and the true nature of Alexis petty, bitchy, nasty and angry character reveals itself. It's beautifully done, and not any actress could have done what Joan did.

It's also not really accurate to call Joan's portrayal of Alexis a soap opera caricature when really it was something that hadn't been done yet. Sure there had been bitchy divas on the daytime soaps before, but I don't think any that were even close to what Alexis was. Dallas had been on a few years and there was no female on that show that even compared. She basically invented the big soap bitch.

Joan Collins is not the greatest actress that ever lived, but she's a very intelligent actress. It just seemed like a mixture of a great stroke of luck and hard work paid off for her when she got Dynasty. She really seemed to identify with Alexis and her backstory and her struggles to succeed and she seems to have channelled all of that into the role. There's no doubt that Joan added a lot of depth and light and shade to what was originally written on the page. Joan created the look, and added her own British/European sensibilities to the role. She added humour also which a lot of the other cast were unable/ not allowed to do.
I knew I'd step on someone's toes with that comment. Honestly, I wasn't trying to be mean, but I had to call it the way that I see it. I was once a VERY BIG Joan Collins fan. She was the whole reason that I started watching DYNASTY in the beginning. I lived and breathed DYNASTY for such a long time, and it was all because of Joan Collins. I think she was superb as Alexis; no one could've played her any better. Not Elizabeth Taylor, Sophia Loren, Raquel Welch, or any others that might've played her had Joan not stepped in. That part was tailor made for her. She was deliciously evil and I ate up every minute of it.

Aside from DYNASTY, however, I must confess that I'm not a major fan of her work. I've seen a good portion of her other work and it hasn't compelled me to seek anything more really. I personally own The Joan Collins Collection, a five-DVD box set of her films prior to 1960. I'd admit that SEA WIFE (1957) and RALLY ROUND THE FLAG, BOYS (1958) are enjoyable, with the former being one of her more demanding roles during her youth. She played a nun lost at sea with the likes of Richard Burton and Basil Sydney. I'd also say she was good in THE WAYWARD BUS (1957), even if she seemed a little too young for the part. I like her and Jayne Mansfield appearing together -- that's like a match made in the heavens inside my mind. Her TV guest gigs have sometimes been fun: I liked her as Roseanne's snotty cousin Ronnie in ROSEANNE, and she was funny as a designer on WILL & GRACE.

I'd say her career pre-DYNASTY had potential to develop had she had the proper training coupled with good roles, scripts, and directors. But she didn't get those types of roles. She was basically just a contract player for Fox in the late 1950s, and they didn't seem terribly interested in developing her. Their interest seemed to fizzle relatively fast, and by 1960, she was being loaned to cheap European vehicles that failed to utilize her. Joan was the "Queen of the B's" in the 1960s and 1970s, at a time when she starred in a succession of B-movies, one of the cheesiest being EMPIRE OF THE ANTS (1972). She also appeared in the anthology film TALES FROM THE CRYPT (1973). When her career dropped to an all-time low, she decided to borrow for her novelist sister Jackie Collins and star in two adaptations of her novels, although critics dismissed her performances as Fontaine Khaled as mere soft-core exploitation.

There's little else of her work that I'd deem noteworthy.
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Willie Oleson

Telly Talk Schemer
Alexis was at her best when she slithered, the serpent who was supposed to be the exact opposite of Krystle. Cheeky, provocative and with a fair amount of Eurotrash flamboyance.
Fallon was kind of like that character but she was incredibly loyal to Blake so there were certain things that she couldn't do.

Perhaps as the seasons rolled on it became that way
But the same goes for all characters. If your saintly nemesis stops crying then the villainy falls flat.
 

Alexis

Telly Talk Superhero
I knew I'd step on someone's toes with that comment.
Oh no, you didn't step on my toes. I just thinks she's a better actress than most give her credit for. I also have the Superstar collection and have seen some of her early British films, and almost all of her TV roles, in fact pretty much all she has done bar a few episodic US TV things from the 1960s and 1970s. I will admit that playing Alexis although being her big break and stand out role has probably hindered her career to a degree and limited the types of roles she's offered as well as they type that she would accept.

People think Joan Collins and think Glamorous Bitch. It's just the way it is.

I did enjoy her two kind of recent film roles. She's great in The Time Of Their Lives, there's a nice warmth and depth in her performance that was lacking in a lot of her bitchier roles. Also the short film Gerry was wonderful. For me as a Joan fan to see her do a role where she's not the Glam Diva was so good. I had always wanted to see her do something like that. It made me feel that Joan could have had a recurring role on one the the British Soaps, Eastenders or Corrie. She would never do it, as she values her image so much, but she'd have been perfect.

I advise all of you who haven't yet seen Gerry to see it. It's a low budget, short film and it's not what you expect.
 
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Crimson

Telly Talk Star
Semi- in defense of Joan as an actress, it's fair to point out that she never had great material to work with. Most actors, even really good ones, are dependent on their scripts and directors to give great performances. Joan never really had either, so it's hard to judge what she may have been capable of. Compare her to Kim Novak, who made movies that were great, good and bad -- we have a sense of what she was capable of with varying levels of quality.

Judging an actor who got stuck with all bad films is like judging a runner who had weights strapped to her back.
 

ClassyCo

Telly Talk Warrior
Semi- in defense of Joan as an actress, it's fair to point out that she never had great material to work with. Most actors, even really good ones, are dependent on their scripts and directors to give great performances. Joan never really had either, so it's hard to judge what she may have been capable of. Compare her to Kim Novak, who made movies that were great, good and bad -- we have a sense of what she was capable of with varying levels of quality.

Judging an actor who got stuck with all bad films is like judging a runner who had weights strapped to her back.
That goes back to what I said about Joan in an earlier reply.

Had she better training and better material, she probably would've been a better actress. Kim Novak is a reasonable comparison to her. Columbia fueled Novak's popularity in the mid-to-late-'50s and she made several good movies, including PICNIC, PAL JOEY, VERTIGO, and BELL, BOOK AND CANDLE.

Had Fox been more committed to given Joan better scripts, I think she would've done better movies.​
 
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